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John-Boy
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 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:45 pm Post subject: Formal attire |
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Ok, this is something I've noted from my early teens and I don't think it's just me.
I can't wear a suit. Some can - me, there's signs of conflict. No matter how well I iron and
press, bits keeping ballooning out. I think there's a research paper here, either that or I have
a rather crap mutant power of not being able to dress formally.
Especially bad today, after attempting to straighten my tie and flatten my shirt down before work
commences ...
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BonezTheGoon
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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The suit, one part of European culture I wish hadn't become the de facto standard attire for business and formal wear. So many better options out there!
Oh, and "ballooning out"? Sounds like something in the equation is the wrong size, and I think either side of the equation can be changed to fit the other better. Right?
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pjp
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Work, in formal attire? IT BUURRRRNNNSSSSS!
I'm guessing part of it is a matter of being comfortable playing dress-up. I find it to be a mild form of torture. I don't always have the issues you're describing, but definitely sometimes.
Requirements for that kind of garb demonstrate, IMO, a complete lack of sensibility. If playing dress-up convinces someone of work ethic or quality, you know it can't turn out well. They probably also think you aren't working unless you look busy and sit dutifully in your cubicle promptly every day, and stay late.
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wswartzendruber
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| The most comfortable formal attire I wore was this. It's just some trousers and a black coat that goes over a T-shirt. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:16 am Post subject: |
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:lol:
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Prenj
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| My advice, go this way. |
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:38 am Post subject: Re: Formal attire |
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| John-Boy wrote: | Ok, this is something I've noted from my early teens and I don't think it's just me.
I can't wear a suit. Some can - me, there's signs of conflict. No matter how well I iron and
press, bits keeping ballooning out. I think there's a research paper here, either that or I have
a rather crap mutant power of not being able to dress formally.
Especially bad today, after attempting to straighten my tie and flatten my shirt down before work
commences ... |
The best solution is to go to a good tailor and have a couple bespoke outfits made. Also, be aware that bad posture can play a role.
One thing that's unfortunate is that Europeans are into wearing their suits too tight, almost ridiculously so, in some cases. A good example, even though he's not European, is Medvedev, who wears shirt collars and suit jackets that are actually a size too small for him. This is exacerbated by the fact that he wears a high spread collar, ties a huge four-in-hand knot, and has a big fucking head.
Many suit problems can be resolved by admitting that you're a size bigger, and then having a tailor reduce the parts that need to be reduced to make it look nice. You'll be more comfortable, too. That may not be your problem, but it's a common one.
Be aware that different types of jackets fit differently (single-breasted, double breasted, single-vent, double-vent, two-button, three-button, etc.). Go to a good haberdashery to try on a couple suits, and you may get some good advice about what type of jacket (and shirt collar, and pants front) suits your body type the best. If you prefer, you can then take that advice and buy something cheaper elsewhere.
Also, some materials hold their shape better than others. Worsted wool is good (since you don't live where it's hot, look for a suit with a high wool content); linen is bad.
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:44 am Post subject: Re: Formal attire |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | One thing that's unfortunate is that Europeans are into wearing their suits too tight, almost ridiculously so, in some cases. A good example, even though he's not European, is Medvedev, who wears shirt collars and suit jackets that are actually a size too small for him. This is exacerbated by the fact that he wears a high spread collar, ties a huge four-in-hand knot, and has a big fucking head. |
Good photo but where's Shemp?
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:00 am Post subject: |
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Notice also that Sarkozy needs a new dry cleaner. His suit is freshly pressed, but he has horrible puckers around the shoulder seams.
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pjp
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:08 am Post subject: |
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Finally, the only way to carry a man-purse without looking like a dork.
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richk449
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:29 am Post subject: Re: Formal attire |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | One thing that's unfortunate is that Europeans are into wearing their suits too tight, almost ridiculously so, in some cases. A good example, even though he's not European, is Medvedev, who wears shirt collars and suit jackets that are actually a size too small for him. This is exacerbated by the fact that he wears a high spread collar, ties a huge four-in-hand knot, and has a big fucking head. |
Why do you say that Medvedev's suit is too small? It looks like it fits just right to me, at least in that picture. |
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:01 am Post subject: Re: Formal attire |
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| richk449 wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | One thing that's unfortunate is that Europeans are into wearing their suits too tight, almost ridiculously so, in some cases. A good example, even though he's not European, is Medvedev, who wears shirt collars and suit jackets that are actually a size too small for him. This is exacerbated by the fact that he wears a high spread collar, ties a huge four-in-hand knot, and has a big fucking head. |
Why do you say that Medvedev's suit is too small? It looks like it fits just right to me, at least in that picture. |
In a properly-fitted suit you have room to move without the suit binding and restricting your movements. The traditional quick way to check this is to button the top button, hook or your finger over it (or your thumb, I suppose, if you're doing it to yourself) and gently pull it away from you. Without pulling it enough to cause the material to crease anywhere, there should be a full forefinger's length (4 to 5 inches) of room between the button and the abdomen.
If you don't have that much room, the suit binds and restricts your movement, when you are doing something like shaking hands, writing on a white board, waving to someone, or lifting a glass to your mouth. You also end up with wrinkles and creases. Look at that picture again, and try to visualize Medvedev raising both arms over his head.
A suit shouldn't be skin tight, even if you have an athletic build that matches its contours. If you look in other photos, you'll also notice that the front of his suit is often being spread, the lapels being pulled apart revealing a lot of his shirt and tie and causing the lapels to "pucker" (have angular folds begin to appear where it is bowing out). That shouldn't be the case just from normal casual moving around. That suit in the photo really isn't that bad, but look at the distance between his lapels and compare it to Sarkozy's (who is of about the same height).
Here's another example. In addition to it hugging his abdomen and puckering, another clue that the suit itself is too small is that he packs the sleeves full.
The jacket is also a bit long for him. The bottom of the jacket should lie somewhere between the tip and top knuckle of your thumb, and the sleeve should lie between the top knuckle of your thumb and and wrist. Sleeve length can easily be adjusted, but you should buy a suit coat or jacket based on its length, the "finger test" I described, and whether it's shoulder width is right -- the sleeves should drape neatly from the shoulder and not be noticeably convex ("hollow") or concave ("shoulder bulge") just below the shoulder pad. Those are the main items, the rest can be altered.
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Last edited by BoneKracker on Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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pigeon768
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:04 am Post subject: Re: Formal attire |
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"His fault." "If my colleague had acted in a manner according with his station..." "Why the fuck does everyone always blame me..."
How to look good in a suit: - Be skinny.
- Have a tailor make you one.
- Don't slouch.
- Wear a stupid tie if you're really funny. Don't wear a stupid tie if you're like the rest of us.
That's it.
Oh, and fuck having to wear suits to work. If you have to wear a suit to work, move to California. When I left the military, I had a job interview in San Diego. I was wearing a suit, because that's what you wear to job interviews. I had to walk to the interview, because I didn't have a job and couldn't afford a cab. Of the 5 guys doing the interview, 3 were wearing board shorts, 4 were wearing t-shirts, 2 were wearing flip flops, 1 was wearing a very silly hat. I took the job. Now I am the 1%. (I think? Fuck, I don't even know.)
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:11 am Post subject: |
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I like wearing a suit if I'm giving a presentation, eating in a nice restaurant, touring a facility, or that sort of thing. For actually getting work done, they're a pain in the ass, and dry-cleaning is a pain in the ass. Starched shirts are a pain in the ass, too.
Oh, and while "be skinny" is true, it's also true that fat people look a lot better in a suit than in most things. The middle-aged midriff bulge is probably the main reason suits and sport coats have remained popular all this time.
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Last edited by BoneKracker on Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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pjp
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:11 am Post subject: Re: Formal attire |
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| pigeon768 wrote: | | Oh, and fuck having to wear suits to work. If you have to wear a suit to work, move to California. When I left the military, I had a job interview in San Diego. I was wearing a suit, because that's what you wear to job interviews. I had to walk to the interview, because I didn't have a job and couldn't afford a cab. Of the 5 guys doing the interview, 3 were wearing board shorts, 4 were wearing t-shirts, 2 were wearing flip flops, 1 was wearing a very silly hat. I took the job. Now I am the 1%. (I think? Fuck, I don't even know.) |
I keep hoping to make it there, but no luck as of yet. Good thing on the 1%, given the taxes. Hiring?:D
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Gawd not this again. Do we really need to know you are the one per cent? Was that information necessary to make your point? Next you'll be telling us how smart you are, how sexy your girlfriend is, etc. Fuck it, I'm having another G&T.
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Prenj
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | Oh, and while "be skinny" is true, it's also true that fat people look a lot better in a suit than in most things. The middle-aged midriff bulge is probably the main reason suits and sport coats have remained popular all this time. |
On my last job, I tried to turn things around by demanding we all go to gym and do some easy muay thai or whatever to get rid of the midriff, also eating fish+veggies instead of fries would help. I was quickly converged upon by all suit-wearing fatties |
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Tailors in India have no fucking clue how to tailor a suit. I had to go to countless shops before I found a ready-made one that fit me well.
Also, it's kind of stupid to see Indian businessmen wearing suits in 35 degree weather.
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richk449
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:20 am Post subject: Re: Formal attire |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | richk449 wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | One thing that's unfortunate is that Europeans are into wearing their suits too tight, almost ridiculously so, in some cases. A good example, even though he's not European, is Medvedev, who wears shirt collars and suit jackets that are actually a size too small for him. This is exacerbated by the fact that he wears a high spread collar, ties a huge four-in-hand knot, and has a big fucking head. |
Why do you say that Medvedev's suit is too small? It looks like it fits just right to me, at least in that picture. |
In a properly-fitted suit you have room to move without the suit binding and restricting your movements. The traditional quick way to check this is to button the top button, hook or your finger over it (or your thumb, I suppose, if you're doing it to yourself) and gently pull it away from you. Without pulling it enough to cause the material to crease anywhere, there should be a full forefinger's length (4 to 5 inches) of room between the button and the abdomen.
If you don't have that much room, the suit binds and restricts your movement, when you are doing something like shaking hands, writing on a white board, waving to someone, or lifting a glass to your mouth. You also end up with wrinkles and creases. Look at that picture again, and try to visualize Medvedev raising both arms over his head.
A suit shouldn't be skin tight, even if you have an athletic build that matches its contours. If you look in other photos, you'll also notice that the front of his suit is often being spread, the lapels being pulled apart revealing a lot of his shirt and tie and causing the lapels to "pucker" (have angular folds begin to appear where it is bowing out). That shouldn't be the case just from normal casual moving around. That suit in the photo really isn't that bad, but look at the distance between his lapels and compare it to Sarkozy's (who is of about the same height).
Here's another example. In addition to it hugging his abdomen and puckering, another clue that the suit itself is too small is that he packs the sleeves full.
The jacket is also a bit long for him. The bottom of the jacket should lie somewhere between the tip and top knuckle of your thumb, and the sleeve should lie between the top knuckle of your thumb and and wrist. Sleeve length can easily be adjusted, but you should buy a suit coat or jacket based on its length, the "finger test" I described, and whether it's shoulder width is right -- the sleeves should drape neatly from the shoulder and not be noticeably convex ("hollow") or concave ("shoulder bulge") just below the shoulder pad. Those are the main items, the rest can be altered. |
Thanks. Good to know. I have bought two suits in my life: one at Sears, and one at Macy's. |
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richk449
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | Gawd not this again. Do we really need to know you are the one per cent? Was that information necessary to make your point? |
I think that was his point.
Personally, I would rather be the poor dude in the board shorts than the douche bag in the suit. |
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Muso
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | Fuck it, I'm having another G&T. |
As if a reason is needed... (Raises a GT w/lime towards the screen)
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wswartzendruber
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:29 am Post subject: |
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| I'd rather have the sense of professionalism. Any one of those dudes could've gotten a suit. I got one at a thrift store for chump change. It's not how much you spend, it's how you present yourself. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Actually, it's who you know. Presenting yourself may or may not be a check box. Supposedly Google doesn't hire anyone wearing a suit to an interview. Or so say several of the 'getting hired by Google' articles.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:37 am Post subject: Re: Formal attire |
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| richk449 wrote: | | Thanks. Good to know. I have bought two suits in my life: one at Sears, and one at Macy's. |
Probably "too much information". I worked at a haberdashery selling suits when I was in college.
If you have to get another suit, I recommend Jos. A. Bank. Good quality stuff, reasonable prices, and no bullshit. They also have the best non-wrinkle dress shirts I've ever worn (their "Traveler" brand -- looks and feels just like cotton). The often have "buy one suit get one free" sales and the like. If you don't want to spend and arm and a leg but want decent stuff, they're a reliable choice.
http://www.josbank.com
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richk449
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:46 am Post subject: Re: Formal attire |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | richk449 wrote: | | Thanks. Good to know. I have bought two suits in my life: one at Sears, and one at Macy's. |
Probably "too much information". I worked at a haberdashery selling suits when I was in college.
If you have to get another suit, I recommend Jos. A. Bank. Good quality stuff, reasonable prices, and no bullshit. They also have the best non-wrinkle dress shirts I've ever worn (their "Traveler" brand -- looks and feels just like cotton). The often have "buy one suit get one free" sales and the like. If you don't want to spend and arm and a leg but want decent stuff, they're a reliable choice.
http://www.josbank.com |
I used to buy their shirts occasionally, but I haven't recently. I am pretty thin, and like my clothes to fit well (european style), and they don't seem to have anything close. Even their "slim" shirts were huge on me. I buy most of my shirts at Calvin Klein nowdays - not because I particularly like them, but because they have an "extreme slim" line which fits me right.
It is very rare for me to need a suit these days. I was at a conference the last couple of days, and I just threw a sport coat over my usual work clothes (slacks and a button down shirt). I was still better dressed than 90% of the people there. Last time I needed a suit (my brothers wedding), I borrowed one from my dad. |
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