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pjp
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 Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:44 am Post subject: |
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There is nothing "wise" about the owl at all. In fact, it is rather ignorant. The comment wasn't literal as the owl was written to "understand" it. Test is wrong.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | 2 out of 6 correct; Asperger's |
Since you can't count, what does that diagnose you with? Tardiness? |
Okay, you got 3. Sorry about that. Still Asperger's.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | There is nothing "wise" about the owl at all. In fact, it is rather ignorant. The comment wasn't literal as the owl was written to "understand" it. Test is wrong. |
I agree. That question is philosophical and has more than one right answer.
But you have no excuse for getting the other two wrong. 
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pjp
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:59 am Post subject: |
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I'm stubborn.
Hungry is easily as correct as, what was it, annoyed? Frankly, 'annoyed' should warrant a psyche eval. You get annoyed, so the correct, rational response is to eat someone? Wow.
What was the other? 10? Again, based on the drug induced story and "world physics" as presented, I argue a clear answer isn't present. If eating someone you are annoyed with is acceptable following magically talking animals and fruit, it seems perfectly reasonable to assume some otherworldly physics are involved with cheering.
That ignores completely the lack of teaching how to take tests, which is the real test. I also feel sorry for those who can't color outside the lines. Though they are probably perfectly happy running on a wheel in a cubicle (while I am not).
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:05 am Post subject: |
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:15 am Post subject: |
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I thought it was a pretty good example of reading comprehension. You need to divorce your own understanding of how things "should be" and concentrate only on the passage to figure out the answers. So even though it seems like a nonsensical story, it is entirely consistent and sufficient to answer the questions that are asked. I don't see why anyone would think this is a poor question for an English test.
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notageek
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Like I said, "you're all winners, thank you for participating" test.
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notageek
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | I thought it was a pretty good example of reading comprehension. You need to divorce your own understanding of how things "should be" and concentrate only on the passage to figure out the answers. So even though it seems like a nonsensical story, it is entirely consistent and sufficient to answer the questions that are asked. I don't see why anyone would think this is a poor question for an English test. |
He's probably one of those types you see in the Pink Floyd video yelling "Poems everybody."
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | I thought it was a pretty good example of reading comprehension. You need to divorce your own understanding of how things "should be" and concentrate only on the passage to figure out the answers. So even though it seems like a nonsensical story, it is entirely consistent and sufficient to answer the questions that are asked. I don't see why anyone would think this is a poor question for an English test. |
See what I mean, notageek? Once you give the answers, everybody's a frickin' genius. He would have answered "moose" for number 8.
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notageek
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:26 am Post subject: |
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | There is nothing "wise" about the owl at all. In fact, it is rather ignorant. The comment wasn't literal as the owl was written to "understand" it. Test is wrong. |
It is "wise" because the moral of the story is that "pineapples don't have sleeves". The owl reaches that conclusion right away while the others speculate.
It's not about the owl making some actually profound observation, but an observation that is declared to be profound at the end of the story. Therefore, the owl is wise within the confines of the passage. That's the whole point. You aren't supposed to bring your own understanding to the passage, but rely on the text to reach the answers.
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pjp
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:34 am Post subject: |
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Assuming you're correct, and I'll grant that it is a very plausible explanation, I think that's just ammunition against standardized testing and rewarding "coloring within the lines" behavior. Do As Your Told is, IMO, Not A Good Thing (TM).
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | runningwithscissors wrote: | | I thought it was a pretty good example of reading comprehension. You need to divorce your own understanding of how things "should be" and concentrate only on the passage to figure out the answers. So even though it seems like a nonsensical story, it is entirely consistent and sufficient to answer the questions that are asked. I don't see why anyone would think this is a poor question for an English test. |
See what I mean, notageek? Once you give the answers, everybody's a frickin' genius. He would have answered "moose" for number 8. |
Uh, there are clearly correct and incorrect answers, so it's not an "everybody's a genius" kind of test.
Seriously BK, considering the crapload of text you unload everyday on this forum, I'd have thought you understood how language works.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | pjp wrote: | | There is nothing "wise" about the owl at all. In fact, it is rather ignorant. The comment wasn't literal as the owl was written to "understand" it. Test is wrong. |
It is "wise" because the moral of the story is that "pineapples don't have sleeves". The owl reaches that conclusion right away while the others speculate.
It's not about the owl making some actually profound observation, but an observation that is declared to be profound at the end of the story. Therefore, the owl is wise within the confines of the passage. That's the whole point. You aren't supposed to bring your own understanding to the passage, but rely on the text to reach the answers. |
You are correct. However, that's easy to say when you didn't already blurt out the wrong answer.
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| pjp wrote: | | Assuming you're correct, and I'll grant that it is a very plausible explanation, I think that's just ammunition against standardized testing and rewarding "coloring within the lines" behavior. Do As Your Told is, IMO, Not A Good Thing (TM). |
It's a test of English "comprehension". So "colouring within the lines" is kind of the point. You are supposed to comprehend what is written, not bring your own interpretation to it. It may seem a bit "post-modernish", but it's actually the exact opposite.
Besides, I'm certain there are other questions on the test that assess skills of reasoning and inference, where you are definitely not expected to colour within the lines.
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | You are correct. However, that's easy to say when you didn't already blurt out the wrong answer. |
If someone understands the reason why owl is the correct answer, why would they blurt out the wrong one?
You can speculate whether I'd have blurted out the wrong answer or not, I am not looking to show off my language skills.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | You are correct. However, that's easy to say when you didn't already blurt out the wrong answer. |
If someone understands the reason why owl is the correct answer, why would they blurt out the wrong one? |
Because they didn't put enough thought into the question, because they had not been warned in advance by reading other people's responses that the answers to any of the questions were not obvious.
| runningwithscissors wrote: | | You can speculate whether I'd have blurted out the wrong answer or not, I am not looking to show off my language skills. |
It's not language (or reading comprehension) skills that you are showing off, and that's what's wrong with the test. One arrives at the "owl" answer by good test-taking skills, deductive reasoning, awareness of animist stereotypes in fables (wise owl), and willful suspension of disbelief.
In reality, the moral doesn't make sense, because the pineapple did indeed having something up his sleeve. By challenging the hare to a race, he implied that he would run, but then he did not. So the owl wasn't really wise at all. This fact remains true regardless of the author's declaration of the "moral".
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notageek
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: |
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And the owl also ate the pineapple. If the animals ate the pineapple because they were annoyed, then the owl wasn't wise after all. Just being a compulsive skeptic like some people in this forum.
Maybe the animals ate the pineapple because they were hungry.
Or maybe they were bored, after staring at it for two hours.
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:26 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | It's not language (or reading comprehension) skills that you are showing off, and that's what's wrong with the test. One arrives at the "owl" answer by good test-taking skills, deductive reasoning, awareness of animist stereotypes in fables (wise owl), and willful suspension of disbelief. |
And I'm sure they honed the kids' skills by having them work on similar comprehension exercises in their course work. But that is an example of good pedagogy. The animist stereotype isn't relevant and it would actually be counter-productive to consider it, even if it aligns with the right answer. The stereotype would be misleading if any creature other than the owl had told us the moral of the story.
Maybe I have read Alice in Wonderland one too many times, but I really didn't find anything out of the ordinary with this question being on an English exam.
| BoneKracker wrote: | | In reality, the moral doesn't make sense, because the pineapple did indeed having something up his sleeve. By challenging the hare to a race, he implied that he would run, but then he did not. So the owl wasn't really wise at all. This fact remains true regardless of the author's declaration of the "moral". |
That inference isn't wrong, but it is irrelevant. The moral of any story is a wise observation or conclusion one can reach from it. Declaring that the moral is that pineapples don't have sleeves implies that the owl is wise for making that observation.
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| notageek wrote: | And the owl also ate the pineapple. If the animals ate the pineapple because they were annoyed, then the owl wasn't wise after all. Just being a compulsive skeptic like some people in this forum.
Maybe the animals ate the pineapple because they were hungry.
Or maybe they were bored, after staring at it for two hours. |
Or maybe they were just expressing their anger against the tropical fruits who were the ruling class of the jungle and making a statement against the fruitarchy.
You should apply for tenure at an american liberal arts college, notageek.
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notageek
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | You should apply for tenure at an american liberal arts college, notageek. |
And make more than what code-monkeys make here? Sounds like a plan.
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pjp
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | It's a test of English "comprehension". So "colouring within the lines" is kind of the point. You are supposed to comprehend what is written, not bring your own interpretation to it. |
Which is why this specific example is very bad. Comprehending it "correctly" could also mean the owl is in fact not wise, but it is impossible to know the arbitrary answer chosen by $32milliondollarCo. Bad test is bad test.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | BoneKracker wrote: | | In reality, the moral doesn't make sense, because the pineapple did indeed having something up his sleeve. By challenging the hare to a race, he implied that he would run, but then he did not. So the owl wasn't really wise at all. This fact remains true regardless of the author's declaration of the "moral". |
That inference isn't wrong, but it is irrelevant. The moral of any story is a wise observation or conclusion one can reach from it. Declaring that the moral is that pineapples don't have sleeves implies that the owl is wise for making that observation. |
You say that one must assume the moral to be wise. I say that by doing so, you are violating your own rules about basing one's answers entirely upon the passage alone.
Based upon the passage alone, the moral is nonsense, and the owl is a fool (again, because the pineapple did pull a trick after all, by not even running). At least, this is one interpretation equally valid with yours. Therefore, the question is ambiguous.
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juniper
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | notageek wrote: | | Which one's incorrect? |
I'll tell you after. Don't want to bias people's answers.
If it makes you feel better, you got the same one wrong that I did. |
I answered the same as you two. |
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juniper
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | Actually, the official answers do exist, but one of the questions was thrown out for sucking so badly. It was the one that notageek and I both got wrong. All of the other ones have clear and obvious answers that a 10-year-old ought to be able to get.
The official answers were:
6. b. In the order in which events happen
7. c. annoyed
8. c. the owl <---
9. a. suspicious
10. d. They would have been happy to have cheered for a winner.
11. c. has a plan to fool the animals
Several questions ask for somewhat speculative or inductive reasoning based on empathy or an understanding of psychology, neither of which have anything to do with reading comprehension.
Question 8 was actually thrown out (not graded). The State paid the test developers $32 million to develop the test. |
I don't get why owl is the right answer.
It is a shit test for the reasons you state. |
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