Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
Big Brother in US schools
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page 1, 2  Next  
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pitcrawler
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Oklahoma, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:20 pm    Post subject: Big Brother in US schools Reply with quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-17664075 wrote:
Hundreds of US schools have police patrolling the playgrounds and corridors to keep order. But some believe their presence means an increasing number of pupils are being criminalised for minor classroom offences.

Judge John Sholden sits, dressed in black robes, in between two American flags and calls out names.

He is looking down on a courtroom full of teenagers and their parents who are facing "Class C" misdemeanour offences for skipping school.

At the truancy courts of Dallas in Texas, absence from class or repeated late arrivals are punishable with fines of up to $500 (£316).

"A Class C misdemeanour is the lowest level of all the criminal offences, it would be the equivalent of a traffic ticket or not abiding by a stop sign on the street," says Judge Sholden, who can also hand out sanctions like essays and book reports in his sentence.
..
".. tickets still issued for not tucking in shirts"

"I ran into a mother recently whose daughter wrote her name on a school desk in highlighter and she was given a felony conviction for that.

"I've seen children being disciplined for the wrong colour belt, the wrong colour tennis shoes. A majority of things are just so silly. They are normal things that children are just going to do, like talking in class and being a little bit disruptive."
Welcome to the United Police-States of America.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 656
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those are government schools. Yet another great reason to send your children to private schools.
_________________
I, for one, am glad to be living on a planet with 776x the mass of the super-massive black hole at the center of the milky way.
auf alten Schiffen lernt man Segeln.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
den_RDC
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 25 Aug 2002
Posts: 164
Location: beercountry, Belgium;)

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Earth wrote:
Those are government schools. Yet another great reason to send your children to private schools.

So you either pay for tickets in public school ( the article mentioned a 17year old boy owing 2500$ dollar for being late multiple times ) or you pay ( a lot more ) for public school.... Nice choice.

But why on earth would anyone want to criminalize normal, trivial teenage behavior ( not tucking in a shirt, being late ... ) ? And why are parents, teachers, judges & politicians OK with this ? Why make puberty a crime ? Why manufacture criminals ?
_________________
Fan of the "Survivor Warriors of the Evil Empire of Bloody Destruction and Bloody Darkness"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 656
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People are tyrants. This is why giving them more power is stupid.
_________________
I, for one, am glad to be living on a planet with 776x the mass of the super-massive black hole at the center of the milky way.
auf alten Schiffen lernt man Segeln.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pitcrawler
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Oklahoma, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Earth wrote:
Those are government schools. Yet another great reason to send your children to private schools.
And those who can't afford it?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 656
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pitcrawler wrote:
The Earth wrote:
Those are government schools. Yet another great reason to send your children to private schools.
And those who can't afford it?


Prioritize.
_________________
I, for one, am glad to be living on a planet with 776x the mass of the super-massive black hole at the center of the milky way.
auf alten Schiffen lernt man Segeln.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pitcrawler
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Oklahoma, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Earth wrote:
pitcrawler wrote:
The Earth wrote:
Those are government schools. Yet another great reason to send your children to private schools.
And those who can't afford it?


Prioritize.
Your school grades are: A for ideology, F for implementation. :P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 656
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pitcrawler wrote:
The Earth wrote:
pitcrawler wrote:
The Earth wrote:
Those are government schools. Yet another great reason to send your children to private schools.
And those who can't afford it?


Prioritize.
Your school grades are: A for ideology, F for implementation. :P


A for implementation. I send my daughter to a private school. I have prioritized my finances to ensure that this happened.

You get an F for grading.
_________________
I, for one, am glad to be living on a planet with 776x the mass of the super-massive black hole at the center of the milky way.
auf alten Schiffen lernt man Segeln.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mardok45
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Right behind you

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

den_RDC wrote:
But why on earth would anyone want to criminalize normal, trivial teenage behavior ( not tucking in a shirt, being late ... ) ? And why are parents, teachers, judges & politicians OK with this ? Why make puberty a crime ? Why manufacture criminals ?

I guess they thought ticketing kids for disobeying school rules would make it apparent that there are consequences for disobeying your work place's rules/code of conduct, making them better prepared for entering the work force.

Or they're just desperate for money and they thought this would make a great income.

Either way, treating kids like criminals is an excellent way to turn them into one. If I were to have kids, I'd much, MUCH rather have them paddled than ticketed. It gets the point across a lot quicker and I have more money to spend on booze.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tylerwylie
Guru
Guru


Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 456
Location: /US/Illinois

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pitcrawler wrote:
The Earth wrote:
Those are government schools. Yet another great reason to send your children to private schools.
And those who can't afford it?
I'm fairly certain there would be ways of easily financing education and that it would cost magnitudes less per child and be magnitudes more effective than any top-down go-to-jail-or-pay barbaric cookie cutter approach.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pitcrawler
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Oklahoma, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Earth wrote:
A for implementation. I send my daughter to a private school. I have prioritized my finances to ensure that this happened.

You get an F for grading.
So because you could do it, everyone else can? We all know private school is expensive. If it was that affordable, everyone would be in private school. I thought you were smarter than this.
tylerwylie wrote:
I'm fairly certain there would be ways of easily financing education and that it would cost magnitudes less per child and be magnitudes more effective than any top-down go-to-jail-or-pay barbaric cookie cutter approach.
Fairly certain? If it was easy it would have been done. If it was easy you could think of an example of what could be done.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mardok45
n00b
n00b


Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 64
Location: Right behind you

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerwylie wrote:
pitcrawler wrote:
The Earth wrote:
Those are government schools. Yet another great reason to send your children to private schools.
And those who can't afford it?
I'm fairly certain there would be ways of easily financing education and that it would cost magnitudes less per child and be magnitudes more effective than any top-down go-to-jail-or-pay barbaric cookie cutter approach.

I think best way to do it is to get rid of the 'No child left behind' act, make school attendance optional, and make the classroom the place for kids to work, and home the place to learn.

At the time I didn't think much of it, but now it's baffling to think of how one little inconsiderate fucker can ruin a teachers day, and by extent, the entire period. When the teacher has to take time out of the class to take care of just one student, the whole class suffers. If the kids learn the material at home and work at school, the kids already have a grasp on the material and the damage is mitigated since the students have something to work on while the teacher busy with the out-of-line student. Khan University is probably the best solution for this strategy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pitcrawler
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Oklahoma, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mardok45 wrote:
I think best way to do it is to get rid of the 'No child left behind' act.
While he's not fully abolished it, Obama has allowed any state to opt out of it but with certain conditions.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 656
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pitcrawler wrote:
The Earth wrote:
A for implementation. I send my daughter to a private school. I have prioritized my finances to ensure that this happened.

You get an F for grading.
So because you could do it, everyone else can?


The only thing stopping them would their own poor life decisions.

pitcrawler wrote:
We all know private school is expensive. If it was that affordable, everyone would be in private school. I thought you were smarter than this.


I'm smart enough to send my daughter to a private school, how about you?
_________________
I, for one, am glad to be living on a planet with 776x the mass of the super-massive black hole at the center of the milky way.
auf alten Schiffen lernt man Segeln.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tylerwylie
Guru
Guru


Joined: 19 Sep 2004
Posts: 456
Location: /US/Illinois

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pitcrawler wrote:
The Earth wrote:
A for implementation. I send my daughter to a private school. I have prioritized my finances to ensure that this happened.

You get an F for grading.
So because you could do it, everyone else can? We all know private school is expensive. If it was that affordable, everyone would be in private school. I thought you were smarter than this.
tylerwylie wrote:
I'm fairly certain there would be ways of easily financing education and that it would cost magnitudes less per child and be magnitudes more effective than any top-down go-to-jail-or-pay barbaric cookie cutter approach.
Fairly certain? If it was easy it would have been done. If it was easy you could think of an example of what could be done.
If you are forced to pay for State education regardless if you use it or not, and the State controls who can and cannot be schools, and you have to meet certain curriculum and other regulations, then it becomes cost prohibitive and people are less likely to pay twice (once out of theft for State schools, and again for private schools) for education.

Though it can also be summed up rather easily: Lets not throw each other in cages for resisting theft and let the market handle how to best serve the consumer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pitcrawler
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Oklahoma, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Earth wrote:
pitcrawler wrote:
The Earth wrote:
A for implementation. I send my daughter to a private school. I have prioritized my finances to ensure that this happened.

You get an F for grading.
So because you could do it, everyone else can?


The only thing stopping them would their own poor life decisions.

pitcrawler wrote:
We all know private school is expensive. If it was that affordable, everyone would be in private school. I thought you were smarter than this.


I'm smart enough to send my daughter to a private school, how about you?
You're buying the mass delusion that America is more of a land of opportunity than most others, when in reality the opposite is true.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility#Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_US wrote:
Socio-economic mobility in the US
Main article: Socio-economic mobility in the United States
At least five large studies in recent years have found that vertical inter-generational mobility is lower in America than in comparable nations, belief in America as a land of opportunity not withstanding.
Popular opinion
The American Dream Report, a study of the Economic Mobility Project, found that Americans surveyed were more likely than citizens of other countries to agree with statements like “People get rewarded for intelligence and skill”, “People get rewarded for their efforts”; and less likely to agree with statements like “Coming from a wealthy family is ‘essential’ or ‘very important’ to getting ahead,” “Income differences in my country are too large” or “It is the responsibility of government to reduce differences in income.” While another report found such beliefs to have gotten strong over the last few decades.
Comparisons with other countries
Along with the aforementioned “Do Poor Children Become Poor Adults?" study The Economist also stated that "evidence from social scientists suggests that American society is much `stickier` than most Americans assume. Some researchers claim that social mobility is actually declining." A German study corroborates these results. In spite of this low mobility Americans surveyed had the highest belief in meritocracy among 27 nations surveyed.
Whether you're smart or stupid, or make good or bad life decisions, their effects are cancelled out by pure luck to a larger extent than many other developed countries. Born into a rich American family? That's probably all the advandage you need to succeed whether you try hard or not. Born into a poor American family? No matter how hard you try, you're likely to remain stuck in a rut.

While there may be many exceptions, there will on average be a lot of people who fall into the low social-mobility trap, and it's only getting worse. And yet people still hold onto the falsehood that, if you didn't do well in life then you made stupid decisions and it's nothing to do with the rock-bottom level of social mobility in the country.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 758
Location: EU

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Earth wrote:
Those are government schools. Yet another great reason to send your children to private schools.


I went to a government school in a not so great area. we didn't have any of that shit.

just because your govt is nuts doesn't mean they all are.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 758
Location: EU

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Earth wrote:

I'm smart enough to send my daughter to a private school, how about you?


I am consciously sending my kids to public school, though could afford private school. Part of the education I want is for my kids to learn how to mix with kids of different social backgrounds.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
juniper
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 758
Location: EU

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tylerwylie wrote:

Though it can also be summed up rather easily: Lets not throw each other in cages for resisting theft and let the market handle how to best serve the consumer.


just like magic!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Muso
l33t
l33t


Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 656
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

juniper wrote:
Part of the education I want is for my kids to learn how to mix with kids of different social backgrounds.


That's what going to the beach is for.
_________________
I, for one, am glad to be living on a planet with 776x the mass of the super-massive black hole at the center of the milky way.
auf alten Schiffen lernt man Segeln.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Old School
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 236
Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Republicans for years have been trying to make it easier and less expensive for poor kids to go to succeeding private schools, but the Democunts (beholden to the teachers unions, and the advancement of mind numb drones dependent on the government) have fought the idea of school choice.
_________________
I am not young enough to know everything.
- Oscar Wilde
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Naib
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 4185
Location: Removed by Neddy

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Earth wrote:
pitcrawler wrote:
The Earth wrote:
A for implementation. I send my daughter to a private school. I have prioritized my finances to ensure that this happened.

You get an F for grading.
So because you could do it, everyone else can?


The only thing stopping them would their own poor life decisions.

pitcrawler wrote:
We all know private school is expensive. If it was that affordable, everyone would be in private school. I thought you were smarter than this.


I'm smart enough to send my daughter to a private school, how about you?
just because the way America has implemented state-provided services (healthcare,education) doesn't mean such concepts are bad, just how America has deployed them within its borders is just full of fail

I grew up on social security (and due to other fuck ups was well below the breadline Thatcher stated no child was below...), I went to state school, I got university grants AND all because my dear father couldn't keep his dick in his pants.

YET I came out with a degree and have paid back alot in taxes as well other things within my industry.

If I was in america in the same circumstances I would probably be homeless, yet in the UK I have got out of the rundown council estate I grew up in and the gov'n has gotten more out of me then they would have if they didn't do those small "investments".
_________________
A free press is the unsleeping guardian of every other right that free men prize; it is the most dangerous foe of tyranny. Where men have the habit of liberty, the Press will continue to be the vigilant guardian of the rights of the ordinary citizen.


Last edited by Naib on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pitcrawler
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Oklahoma, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old School wrote:
Republicans for years have been trying to make it easier and less expensive for poor kids to go to succeeding private schools, but the Democunts (beholden to the teachers unions, and the advancement of mind numb drones dependent on the government) have fought the idea of school choice.
I hate to be a burden, and I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but could you show some examples. I did read something about a Republican bill to provide vouchers, but there was also something related to that in Oklahoma (Providing disabled children with vouchers for free private education) that got shot down in court for being unconstitutional. (Most of the private schools are religious.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pitcrawler
Apprentice
Apprentice


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 154
Location: Oklahoma, USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
The Earth wrote:
pitcrawler wrote:
The Earth wrote:
A for implementation. I send my daughter to a private school. I have prioritized my finances to ensure that this happened.

You get an F for grading.
So because you could do it, everyone else can?


The only thing stopping them would their own poor life decisions.

pitcrawler wrote:
We all know private school is expensive. If it was that affordable, everyone would be in private school. I thought you were smarter than this.


I'm smart enough to send my daughter to a private school, how about you?
just because the way America has implemented state-provided services (healthcare,education) doesn't mean such concepts are bad, just how America has deployed them within its borders is just full of fail

I grew up on social security (and due to other fuck ups was well below the breadline Thatcher stated no child was below...), I went to state school, I got university grants AND all because my dear father couldn't keep his dick in his pants.

YET I came out with a degree and have paid back alot in taxes as well other things within my industry.

If I was in america in the same circumstances I would probably be homeless, yet in the UK I have got out of the rundown council estate I grew up in and the gov'n has gotten more out of me then they would have if they didn't do those small "investments".
++
Americans have been taught otherwise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wildhorse
Tux's lil' helper
Tux's lil' helper


Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 148
Location: Estados Unidos De América

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This case is another example how things work (or not) in the USA. First, there is a total lack of responsibility on all sides (pupils, parents, teachers). Consequently, you end up with a zero tolerance policy. And then things go nuts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Off the Wall All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum