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Gabriel_Blake
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Can't leave Gentoo, but some things are still annoying Reply with quote

I've been using Gentoo for 5 years now. I was trying to switch to other distros, but I just couldn't do it.

But there are things that still annoy me... I'm quite pedantic in general, so the things that annoy me may be unusual.

1. I can't find a a suiting WM. All I want is a lightweight WM with consistent theme and icons in all apps (QT and GTK). In XFCE I had always icons missing. GNOME or KDE is out of the question (the latter probably killed my disk with KDE indexing). I use an "iconless" fluxbox with manually set themes (which still doesn't always work).

2. To put it simple: /lib + /lib32 + /lib64. WHY !? I mean... I know the difference, but was there really no other way to organize it ? The same in /usr but with an additional libexec.

3. The user config files are either in ~/ as hidden files or in ~/.config - and both look a mess :P

4. I guess the idea of having en encrypted /home partition, which would be decrypted based on the user login password at login isn't new or uncommon. I've tried several times to do so and haven't found a single working solution so far.

5. LINGUAS only make a mess. Two examples:
- Netbeans comes with a dozen of LINGUAS, but on EN. So if I define globally (in make.conf) EN and PL. I get a half-translated polish interface :P
- If I have globally set LINGUAS to EN and PL, then a compiled firefox has spell check options as: PL_PL, EN_UK, EN_US, EN_AU... Not only are there a dozen versions of the English dictionary, but they have stupid and annoying labels.

6. File indexing... as I've mentioned my hdd recently died, probably because the way KDE file indexing was using it. I wanted to use the normal "locate", but building a database each time is annoying and the search output isn't really that user-friendly. No GUI too.

7. No decent IM client in the world. I need two g-talk accounts and IRC. Irssi and bitlbee worked pretty decent, but lacked a notification on message arrival. All the GUI ones dedicated for XMPP cannot connect to my g-talk accounts. And the one that does work - pidgin - does not encrypt stored passwords.

8. No consistency in mounting removable media. GNOME, KDE and XFCE all have their own solution to the problem, and all are poorly executed. For undefined reasons my flash drives work slower when mounted automatically in /media than via console.

OK... there's probably a bunch of other things, but I've taken enough frustration of my back already xD I'd appreciate your comments on these issues.
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The Doctor
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I can't find a a suiting WM. All I want is a lightweight WM with consistent theme and icons in all apps (QT and GTK). In XFCE I had always icons missing. GNOME or KDE is out of the question (the latter probably killed my disk with KDE indexing). I use an "iconless" fluxbox with manually set themes (which still doesn't always work).

You might try LXDE. Its light and it has enough polish to be considered "complete". I am thinking of abandoning KDE for LXDE. The only thing it is missing is desktop effects and a decent way to edit the menu.

Quote:
To put it simple: /lib + /lib32 + /lib64. WHY !?
I believe that is a consequence of the multilib profile. 32 bit lib is needed for the 32 bit apps and 64 bit for the 64. Applications look at lib and are symlinked to the proper lib (I think. I could be wrong about that.)

Sorry I don't have any input beyond that.
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jdhore
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just feel I should point out that it seems like all your problems except #2 seem like generic problems with linux, not really specific to Gentoo (ie: You'd likely have the same problems on ANY distro you tried).

Also, #5 (the linguas thing) isn't really Gentoo's fault. The problem (which isn't really a problem) is that Gentoo exposes linguas support a bit more than many distros. But not every program in the world is fully translated into your language, and with Firefox, American English and Canadian English and British English and Australian English are all slightly different so there has to be a dictionary for each one (I assume Polish is the same, but I do not know). Also, the language_dialect syntax for the dictionaries is standard...Look at /etc/locale.gen and you'll see. :)

I can't comment on #2 much (the /lib + /lib32 + /lib64 situation) since I pretty much only run x86, not amd64, but there is the no-multilib profile which does away with at least one, possibly two of those lib directories.
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avx
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Irssi and bitlbee worked pretty decent, but lacked a notification on message arrival.
That's actually easy to do. IIRC (not using irssi any longer) the plugin/script needed is called 'trigger' (or something close to that). You can define actions/events to trap (ie highlights, special words said, etc) and call a custom action on it. Combined with some notification system or the window manager urgent hint, that works quite well.
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Ion Silverbolt
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some of the major xfce icon themes from xfce-look.org are complete. Gentoo has the popular Faenza icon theme in portage too.

Code:
emerge faenza-xfce-icon-theme
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na641
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ion Silverbolt wrote:
Some of the major xfce icon themes from xfce-look.org are complete. Gentoo has the popular Faenza icon theme in portage too.

Code:
emerge faenza-xfce-icon-theme


Wouldn't it be better if they added xfce as a use flag with the standard faenza-icon-theme, rather than having an additional package for xfce support? I wasn't even aware this package existed until you mentioned it.
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khumba
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Can't leave Gentoo, but some things are still annoying Reply with quote

Gabriel_Blake wrote:
3. The user config files are either in ~/ as hidden files or in ~/.config - and both look a mess :P

Is there any distro that tackles this? I thought the odd ones had their hands full creating /Applications, /Libraries, etc. I'm curious, how would you go about cleaning this up? (Maybe then you can work on ~/.kde4/share/config :P.)

Gabriel_Blake wrote:
6. File indexing... as I've mentioned my hdd recently died, probably because the way KDE file indexing was using it. I wanted to use the normal "locate", but building a database each time is annoying and the search output isn't really that user-friendly. No GUI too.

Does a (or the default) cronjob not keep the mlocate database fresh enough for you? If you need to build it by hand, you're going to have to go with some live indexing solution anyway... Or maybe split your use cases between locate and find...

Gabriel_Blake wrote:
I was trying to switch to other distros, but I just couldn't do it.

It seems to take a long time to kick that habit :). I think I'm over it now.
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Ormaaj
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Can't leave Gentoo, but some things are still annoying Reply with quote

jdhore wrote:
I just feel I should point out that it seems like all your problems except #2 seem like generic problems with linux, not really specific to Gentoo (ie: You'd likely have the same problems on ANY distro you tried).

This. These are almost all upstream issues.

Gabriel_Blake wrote:
1. I can't find a a suiting WM. All I want is a lightweight WM with consistent theme and icons in all apps (QT and GTK). In XFCE I had always icons missing. GNOME or KDE is out of the question (the latter probably killed my disk with KDE indexing). I use an "iconless" fluxbox with manually set themes (which still doesn't always work).

Window managers manage windows, not themes or icons (except sometimes window decorations.) You're talking about desktop environments. Usually you can use any window manager you want on any desktop environment. All major distos have basically the same selection in both cases.

Quote:
2. To put it simple: /lib + /lib32 + /lib64. WHY !? I mean... I know the difference, but was there really no other way to organize it ? The same in /usr but with an additional libexec.

Multilib. This has never been a problem for me. Just follow the symlink instead of the absolute paths and it will take you to the correct place.

Quote:
3. The user config files are either in ~/ as hidden files or in ~/.config - and both look a mess :P

That's XDG and friends. Go complain to freedesktop.org. or set your $XDG_CONFIG_HOME to something non-default (though I'd expect problems if you do). Not a Gentoo issue.

Quote:
6. File indexing... as I've mentioned my hdd recently died, probably because the way KDE file indexing was using it. I wanted to use the normal "locate", but building a database each time is annoying and the search output isn't really that user-friendly. No GUI too.
What on earth would a GUI for a file indexer do? Have a "go" button? KDE actually does have a status display for it's indexer - which is unmaintained garbage and you should absolutely disable. I believe it's disabled by default.

Who needs indexing anyway? Learn to organize your files properly and to use the excellent Gnu find program. Grinding your harddisk to death running an indexer isn't worth shaving a few seconds off your find times. Not a Gentoo issue.

Quote:
7. No decent IM client in the world. I need two g-talk accounts and IRC. Irssi and bitlbee worked pretty decent, but lacked a notification on message arrival. All the GUI ones dedicated for XMPP cannot connect to my g-talk accounts. And the one that does work - pidgin - does not encrypt stored passwords.

I think it's now considered a fundamental law of physics that multiprotocol IM clients cannot also make usable IRC clients. I recommend Weechat, which has a Jabber plugin. For g-talk you'll probably have to use something else. Not a Gentoo issue.

Quote:
8. No consistency in mounting removable media. GNOME, KDE and XFCE all have their own solution to the problem, and all are poorly executed. For undefined reasons my flash drives work slower when mounted automatically in /media than via console.
The mount command is pretty consistent I'd say. All of those have their own layers (KDE == solid for instance), but also all use udev at least on Linux. Check that they're mounting with all the same options. Not a Gentoo issue.

Why are you using Gentoo anyway? If all you want is a distro with GUIs for everything and pretty icons and other desktop-y things preconfigured out of the box, there are probably better options, though you can achieve all the same on Gentoo with a little effort.
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disi
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Can't leave Gentoo, but some things are still annoying Reply with quote

Ormaaj wrote:
Gabriel_Blake wrote:
1. I can't find a a suiting WM. All I want is a lightweight WM with consistent theme and icons in all apps (QT and GTK). In XFCE I had always icons missing. GNOME or KDE is out of the question (the latter probably killed my disk with KDE indexing). I use an "iconless" fluxbox with manually set themes (which still doesn't always work).

Window managers manage windows, not themes or icons (except sometimes window decorations.) You're talking about desktop environments. Usually you can use any window manager you want on any desktop environment. All major distos have basically the same selection in both cases.


I use Awesome, because I cannot stand DE as well :) For files I use the commandline (rsync, cp, mv etc.) or krusader. Then there are a few KDE/QT apps I use, like konversation, texmaker etc.

The big advantage of staying away from KDE are sessions... don't have any :wink:
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Ion Silverbolt
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:02 am    Post subject: Re: Can't leave Gentoo, but some things are still annoying Reply with quote

Gabriel_Blake wrote:
3. The user config files are either in ~/ as hidden files or in ~/.config - and both look a mess :P

They shouldn't look a mess. They should be hidden. :wink:

I admit, it's a bit more cluttered than it should be, but if you think that's bad, go try to do the equivalent editing in Windows. It's all in one place for you...In the REGISTRY. You want to talk nightmare, go rummaging through that for a while. I wonder who at MS thought the registry was a good idea. They need to be taped to a chair and placed on top of a fire ant mound for dreaming up that cluster truck.
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