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cach0rr0
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 Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:56 am Post subject: SCOTUS Justice to Egypt: do not look to the US constitution |
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video: http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/3295.htm
| TFV wrote: |
US Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg to Egyptians: Look to the Constitutions of South Africa or Canada, Not to the US Constitution
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ahhh, the highest court in the land, sworn to uphold the US Constitution they don't see as particularly relevant. Who appointed this windbag again? |
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Muso
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:57 am Post subject: |
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Clinton appointee.
It limits the power of government, much to her chagrin.
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:02 am Post subject: |
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I can't disagree with anything she says. She's not saying the US constitution is bad or anything, she's just pointing out that it's old and a more modern constitution could benefit from other more modern constitutions in force.
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| drizek wrote: | | Here in America, we are like a bunch of shit-slinging monkeys. |
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:10 am Post subject: |
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She doesn't explain why. She doesn't explain how the more modern ones are a better example to follow.
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cach0rr0
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| aidanjt wrote: | | I can't disagree with anything she says. She's not saying the US constitution is bad or anything, she's just pointing out that it's old and a more modern constitution could benefit from other more modern constitutions in force. |
dude...she's a bloody supreme court justice.
It's one thing to say to look to multiple constitutions, including some of the more recent ones that've been relatively sound.
It's another to actually express disdain for the constitution she's sworn an oath to uphold, and specifically suggest avoiding it.
her job is to objectively uphold the constitution, isn't this at a minimum a strong sign her objectivity is questionable? That's grounds for exclusion from far lower courts, let alone the goddamn supreme court |
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:20 am Post subject: |
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Why would anyone look to the US Constitution as a positive example? It is an abject failure.
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cach0rr0
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:28 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | Why would anyone look to the US Constitution as a positive example? It is an utter failure, unfit to exist. |
because some time in the 1300's Gandalf the Grey waved his magic wand and banished the Articles of Confederate Libertarian Utopia to the land of unicorns and rainbows, so like it or not it's the basis for our country's - for those who dont believe countries are mythical beasts created by the voodoo-practicing illuminati - law, and whether it's imperfect or not, that it should remain a constant, standardized document, whose intent is at the very least inhibiting the control of government over people instead of the inverse, is critical. |
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | She doesn't explain why. She doesn't explain how the more modern ones are a better example to follow. |
I would think that's self-explanatory, modern society and technology has moved on from the 18th century. Again, that's not to say that the US constitution is bad, just dated.
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| drizek wrote: | | Here in America, we are like a bunch of shit-slinging monkeys. |
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| cach0rr0 wrote: | | because some time in the 1300's Gandalf the Grey waved his magic wand and banished the Articles of Confederate Libertarian Utopia to the land of unicorns and rainbows, so like it or not it's the basis for our country's - for those who dont believe countries are mythical beasts created by the voodoo-practicing illuminati - law, and whether it's imperfect or not, that it should remain a constant, standardized document, whose intent is at the very least inhibiting the control of government over people instead of the inverse, is critical. |
OK, let's say that is its intent. Well, it failed. Big time. Either it authorizes the shit government we have, or it has been powerless to prevent it. Epic fail, either way. So why should anyone look to it as a positive example?
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Old School
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | Why would anyone look to the US Constitution as a positive example? It is an abject failure. |
It worked well back when it was used.
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cach0rr0
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: |
OK, let's say that is its intent. Well, it failed. Big time. Either it authorizes the government we have, or it has been powerless to prevent it. Epic fail, either way. So why should anyone look to it as a positive example? |
if you're looking for a piece of paper to have any physical force of its own, youre going to be severely frustrated.
people ultimately hold this ability, and no matter how perfectly composed an alternative holy document might be, if people refuse to uphold it, its practical value is zero.
I do realize I'm simply giving you fodder for the usual tangential diatribes, which we've all listened to already ad nauseam, but if you fancy derailing this into an unrelated discussion doomed to go nowhere, have at it. |
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| cach0rr0 wrote: | if you're looking for a piece of paper to have any physical force of its own, youre going to be severely frustrated.
people ultimately hold this ability, and no matter how perfectly composed an alternative holy document might be, if people refuse to uphold it, its practical value is zero. |
We agree.
| Quote: | | I do realize I'm simply giving you fodder for the usual tangential diatribes, which we've all listened to already ad nauseam, but if you fancy derailing this into an unrelated discussion doomed to go nowhere, have at it. |
Nah, we've already reached common ground.
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| cach0rr0 wrote: | dude...she's a bloody supreme court justice.
It's one thing to say to look to multiple constitutions, including some of the more recent ones that've been relatively sound.
It's another to actually express disdain for the constitution she's sworn an oath to uphold, and specifically suggest avoiding it.
her job is to objectively uphold the constitution, isn't this at a minimum a strong sign her objectivity is questionable? That's grounds for exclusion from far lower courts, let alone the goddamn supreme court |
Uphold it in the US. Not ram it down the Egyptians throats.
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| drizek wrote: | | Here in America, we are like a bunch of shit-slinging monkeys. |
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richk449
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | cach0rr0 wrote: | | because some time in the 1300's Gandalf the Grey waved his magic wand and banished the Articles of Confederate Libertarian Utopia to the land of unicorns and rainbows, so like it or not it's the basis for our country's - for those who dont believe countries are mythical beasts created by the voodoo-practicing illuminati - law, and whether it's imperfect or not, that it should remain a constant, standardized document, whose intent is at the very least inhibiting the control of government over people instead of the inverse, is critical. |
OK, let's say that is its intent. Well, it failed. Big time. Either it authorizes the shit government we have, or it has been powerless to prevent it. Epic fail, either way. So why should anyone look to it as a positive example? |
Because it is better than any other alternative so far discovered? Good is relative. |
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Old School
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| richk449 wrote: | | Because it is better than any other alternative so far discovered? Good is relative. |
Just imagine how much better it would be if Federal Politicians and Bureaucracies actually followed it.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | cach0rr0 wrote: | | because some time in the 1300's Gandalf the Grey waved his magic wand and banished the Articles of Confederate Libertarian Utopia to the land of unicorns and rainbows, so like it or not it's the basis for our country's - for those who dont believe countries are mythical beasts created by the voodoo-practicing illuminati - law, and whether it's imperfect or not, that it should remain a constant, standardized document, whose intent is at the very least inhibiting the control of government over people instead of the inverse, is critical. |
OK, let's say that is its intent. Well, it failed. Big time. Either it authorizes the shit government we have, or it has been powerless to prevent it. Epic fail, either way. So why should anyone look to it as a positive example? |
What better example do you see? Don't answer as an anarchist; pretend you're sane for a moment.
One of those of the constitutional monarchies (including Canada)? The European Charter of Human Rights? It's not a constitution, and it condemns free speech. The South African constitution, which is only 17 years old and has already been found lacking to the degree that it has been amended 16 times? The Constitution of Somalia, which declares Islam the national languages and proscribes Sharia law?
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| richk449 wrote: | | Because it is better than any other alternative so far discovered? Good is relative. |
Just as 'better' is subjective. 
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| drizek wrote: | | Here in America, we are like a bunch of shit-slinging monkeys. |
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pjp
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Romney wins, Ginsburg... let's go with retires.
It's one thing to interpret it differently, but holy shit. GTFO if you don't like it you stupid cluck.
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cach0rr0
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| aidanjt wrote: |
Uphold it in the US. Not ram it down the Egyptians throats. |
nobody is ramming anything down anyone's throat now that Sandusky is put away (too soon?)
I don't expect her to beat them over the head with it, nor even openly favor it in this setting. But what she says in this setting, the view she voices on the value of the US Constitution, speaks to her general opinion of it, and proves questionable her suitability for defending it at home. |
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:08 am Post subject: |
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| richk449 wrote: | | Because it is better than any other alternative so far discovered? Good is relative. |
Well that's obviously false: it isn't better than the Articles of Confederation, for example.
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | It worked well back when it was used. |
When was that? It wasn't even good enough to stop the Alien and Sedition acts, let alone the War of Northern Aggression. It authorized slavery ffs.
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | What better example do you see? Don't answer as an anarchist; pretend you're sane for a moment. |
That's funny. :lol:
Seriously though, the Articles of Confederation were better.
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Old School
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:23 am Post subject: |
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| dmitchell wrote: | | Old School wrote: | | It worked well back when it was used. |
When was that? It wasn't even good enough to stop the Alien and Sedition acts, let alone the War of Northern Aggression. It authorized slavery ffs. |
And your point?
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dmitchell
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Old School wrote: | | And your point? |
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Old School
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:26 am Post subject: |
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