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tetromino
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:24 am    Post subject: GNOME 3.2 in Gentoo: answers to common general questions Reply with quote

Hi all. We've finally unmasked gnome-3.2, so read the upgrade guide and start your compilers.

Now, to answer some general questions and concerns:

  1. Why did getting gnome-3 in portage and unmasked take so long?
    First, gnome-3.0 (especially 3.0.0) wasn't complete and stable enough to be unmasked, so we decided to concentrate on 3.2. Second, in 2011 several Gentoo gnome team members were unexpectedly busy with the non-Gentoo aspects of their lives (we are all volunteers, working on Gentoo in our spare time). Third, updating the dependencies needed for gnome-3 caused some incompatibilities with other packages in portage which took a lot of work to resolve.
  2. Why does it need all these dependencies like pulseaudio and networkmanager?
    The gnome-3 authors made a decision to base their code on pulseaudio and networkmanager APIs; adding patches to remove those dependencies would take a fair amount of work, and keeping the patches updated on every version bump would significantly increase the maintenance burden on the Gentoo gnome team.
  3. When will gnome-3 be stabilized?
    We have not made that decision yet. It is possible that we will not stabilize 3.2 at all, and will wait for 3.4.
  4. What happens to the gnome overlay?
    We are planning to disable the overlay for a few days via eclasses, to make sure that average users who only enabled it to get gnome-3.2 will know that they should now stop using it. Then we will re-enable it and start adding gnome-3.3 ebuilds.
  5. Will gnome-2 still be supported?
    For a limited time. We will support gnome-2 until gnome-3.x is stabilized. After gnome-3.x is marked stable, which will happen at some point in 2012, gnome-2 will be removed. We do not have the man-hours needed to properly support two major versions of gnome.
  6. Why can't I have both gnome-2 and gnome-3 installed on the same machine?
    Many (probably most) gnome packages use the same names for some of their files in gnome-2 and gnome-3 versions. As a result, the gnome-2 and gnome-3 versions cannot be installed simultaneously under the same prefix.
  7. All the people in my part of town hate gnome-3, why shouldn't I hate it too?
    Chances are, the people who hate gnome-3 tried it for a day, didn't carefully read the gnome shell cheat sheet, and didn't take time to get used to the new, gnome-3 ways of doing things. I myself hated gnome-3 for the first week that I used it. Then I got used to it, and soon enough realized that I was in love with it and never wanted to go back to old-fashioned gnome-2.
  8. I tried gnome-3 for a month, and I really, really, honestly hate it, so what should I do?
    Your choices are (a) bite the bullet, use gnome-3, and install some gnome shell extensions to make it behave the way you want; (b) migrate to another desktop environment that is more to your liking; (c) mask gnome-3 packages and delay the decision for a few months; (d) start contributing to gnome upstream, and try to get the features you want and need included in the next version of gnome; (e) band together with some like-minded people and write your own desktop environment with blackjack and hookers.
  9. I want to delay my decision for a few months. How can I mask gnome-3?
    You can use this package.mask file.


Made sticky. -- desultory
Unstuck, considering that 3.8 is the current stable v ersion. -- desultory
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mbar
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until today I've been using gnome-overlay and ~amd64. After today's sync I deleted the overlay and this is kinda unnerving:

Code:
[ebuild     UD ] net-libs/webkit-gtk-1.6.1-r301 [1.7.2-r300] USE="gstreamer introspection jit spell (-aqua) -coverage -debug -doc -test -webgl" 6,266 kB [?=>0]
[ebuild     UD ] net-libs/webkit-gtk-1.6.1-r201 [1.7.2-r200] USE="gstreamer introspection jit spell (-aqua) -coverage -debug -test -webgl" 0 kB [?=>0]


Should those be downgraded?
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Leio
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mbar wrote:
Until today I've been using gnome-overlay and ~amd64. After today's sync I deleted the overlay and this is kinda unnerving:

Code:
[ebuild     UD ] net-libs/webkit-gtk-1.6.1-r301 [1.7.2-r300] USE="gstreamer introspection jit spell (-aqua) -coverage -debug -doc -test -webgl" 6,266 kB [?=>0]
[ebuild     UD ] net-libs/webkit-gtk-1.6.1-r201 [1.7.2-r200] USE="gstreamer introspection jit spell (-aqua) -coverage -debug -test -webgl" 0 kB [?=>0]


Should those be downgraded?


Should be fine and what you want. 1.6 is a stable series, 1.7 is a development series. GNOME release team uses webkit 1.6.1 gtk3 version (the -r3xx revisions in gentoo) for their jhbuild metadata; 1.7.2 is used in gnome-3.3 development, eventually a stable 1.8 version for GNOME-3.4 then.
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mbar
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!
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tjscollins
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there a page with the package.keywords changes we need to move to gnome3? I can't seem to find it anywhere.
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Alanw
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for providing the package.mask file! This is exactly what I was looking for.
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bob79
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find very confusing to get a news about Gnome 3.2 being ready (with the doc) and finally find out that this isn't true, yet.

Code:

~ # eselect news read 16
2011-11-27-gnome3-unmask
  Title                     Unmasking of and Upgrade to GNOME 3.2
  Author                    Nirbheek Chauhan <nirbheek@gentoo.org>
  Posted                    2011-11-26
  Revision                  1

We are pleased to announce the addition to tree and unmasking of GNOME-3.2.
Users are strongly encouraged to read the GNOME 3.2 Guide. GNOME 3 has
a massively changed interface and requires working 3D drivers for use, however
there is a fallback mode which is very similar to GNOME 2 and does not require
3D acceleration.

Please read the Gnome 3.2 Guide:
http://gnome.gentoo.org/howtos/gnome-3.2-upgrade.xml



Could you please post another news saying that this is actually postponed ?
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CZ_JC
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost perfect ! Had to add:
Code:
>=gnome-extra/sensors-applet-3.0


Thanks a lot ! :)
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are
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentlemen,

using Gentoo for a very long time it is the first time I am reconsidering. I am almost on my way to Mint :twisted:

Gnome 3 is not your fault, but enforcing GTK3 over GTK2 definitely is. You are not stupid, you know on the problems. Still you insist riding a horse which walks lame into the wrong direction.

GTK3 looks butt-ugly even with any available theme from gnome-looks.org. The dependencies make me laugh. I had to fiddle around almost 6 hours to figure out sane mask/use settings. It is useless on a netbook and not much useful on the desktop.

GTK2 will stay for quite a time, at least as long as XFCE uses it. I appreciate your work of integrating gnome but please ask yourself on the benefits of pushing for broken gnome3 even if a lot of users switch to XFCE nowadays. How about giving up pure Gnome preference but maintaining KDE/XFCE/Gnome on par?

Best regards!
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CZ_JC
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are wrote:
Gentlemen,

using Gentoo for a very long time it is the first time I am reconsidering. I am almost on my way to Mint :twisted:

Gnome 3 is not your fault, but enforcing GTK3 over GTK2 definitely is. You are not stupid, you know on the problems. Still you insist riding a horse which walks lame into the wrong direction.

GTK3 looks butt-ugly even with any available theme from gnome-looks.org. The dependencies make me laugh. I had to fiddle around almost 6 hours to figure out sane mask/use settings. It is useless on a netbook and not much useful on the desktop.

GTK2 will stay for quite a time, at least as long as XFCE uses it. I appreciate your work of integrating gnome but please ask yourself on the benefits of pushing for broken gnome3 even if a lot of users switch to XFCE nowadays. How about giving up pure Gnome preference but maintaining KDE/XFCE/Gnome on par?

Best regards!

Oh come on, Gentoo is like one of few distros that keeps multiple versions of packages. I bet in this case they're gonna keep them until they stop working. If not, you can set up a local overlay and copy the old ebuilds from CVS. Super simple. I don't see anybody forcing you to GTK3. Also remember there are probably some people that actually want gnome3 (huh? really?) so they should have the freedom to have it too.
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are
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CZ_JC wrote:
so they should have the freedom to have it too.


Absolutely!

However, you are not up-to-date: Gentoo forces any package, which provides support for gtk-2 and gtk-3, using gtk-3 only. This results in:
a) gtk-browsers without flash
b) completely crappy look'n feel for gtk-2 DE's like XFCE

I do not ask for adding/maintaining/backporting something. These packages provide full gtk-2 support out of the box, while gtk-3 is beta-status (e.g. midori). I even would understand that in case gnome3 would bring in real improvements in productivity or new functionality. But the common reception on gnome3 is not entirely positive so far, so I do not understand which mission the Gentoo developers are on.
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CZ_JC
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are wrote:
CZ_JC wrote:
so they should have the freedom to have it too.


Absolutely!

However, you are not up-to-date: Gentoo forces any package, which provides support for gtk-2 and gtk-3, using gtk-3 only. This results in:
a) gtk-browsers without flash
b) completely crappy look'n feel for gtk-2 DE's like XFCE

I do not ask for adding/maintaining/backporting something. These packages provide full gtk-2 support out of the box, while gtk-3 is beta-status (e.g. midori). I even would understand that in case gnome3 would bring in real improvements in productivity or new functionality. But the common reception on gnome3 is not entirely positive so far, so I do not understand which mission the Gentoo developers are on.

so then you can either get the old ebuilds or remove the gtk3 dependency from the ebuilds locally. What's stopping you ? But yeah, maybe a use flag would be nice..
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are
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CZ_JC wrote:
so then you can either get the old ebuilds or remove the gtk3 dependency from the ebuilds locally. What's stopping you ? But yeah, maybe a use flag would be nice..


Of course you are right on that. I am just so disappointed, as I really loved Gentoo for such a long time and now it makes more and more decisions I dislike so much.

Best regards
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CZ_JC
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

are wrote:
CZ_JC wrote:
so then you can either get the old ebuilds or remove the gtk3 dependency from the ebuilds locally. What's stopping you ? But yeah, maybe a use flag would be nice..


Of course you are right on that. I am just so disappointed, as I really loved Gentoo for such a long time and now it makes more and more decisions I dislike so much.

Best regards

Any time I talked with a dev, they were very reasonable. I think if anyone provides a solution that works for both people that want gnome3 and for the rest of us, I'm sure they'd take a patch. I bet it's not gonna stay this way. Worst case scenario probably is someone getting very angry and starting a new overlay with all dependencies pointed to gtk2. Who knows, maybe it's gonna be you :) But I assure you, if something forces me to take up gnome 3 stuff, I'll go and try to fix it the proper way. I don't mind about gtk3 though (yet). But I didn't mind about gnome3 either until all the crashing pushed me over the edge.
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arch_dude
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:33 am    Post subject: But how do you emerge Gnome 3??? Reply with quote

I hate to sound stupid, but there does not appear to be an actual HOWTO to install gnome 3. just built a new Gentoo system by following the instructions in the user manual, the X installation, and finally the gnome install doc, without masking or unmasking anything, and I ended up with a very nice Gnome 2. The "Gnome 3.2 upgrade guide" mentions nothing about masking or unmasking or any other way to select Gnome 3. I guess that this is so basic that it is not documented anywhere?
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CZ_JC
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: But how do you emerge Gnome 3??? Reply with quote

arch_dude wrote:
I hate to sound stupid, but there does not appear to be an actual HOWTO to install gnome 3. just built a new Gentoo system by following the instructions in the user manual, the X installation, and finally the gnome install doc, without masking or unmasking anything, and I ended up with a very nice Gnome 2. The "Gnome 3.2 upgrade guide" mentions nothing about masking or unmasking or any other way to select Gnome 3. I guess that this is so basic that it is not documented anywhere?

gnome 3.2 is unmasked as unstable. You probably installed a stable system so you don't have it.
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fuzzylunkinz
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much, Gentoo team, I am absolutely in love with GNOME 3 and Gentoo!

I'm starting to think it takes a Gentoo user to stare change straight in the eyes and conquer it, and learn to love it.

The pygobject thing threw me off at first until I read the "upgrade guide" :oops:, ah well you learn something new every day!
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jmartos
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like more gnome 3 packages are starting to go stable than are listed in the mask file given by the first post on this thread. Can someone clarify if this is the case and if the mask file needs to be updated to completely mask all of the gnome 3 packages. I do not want gnome 3 crap on my system.
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Krellan
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmartos wrote:
It looks like more gnome 3 packages are starting to go stable than are listed in the mask file given by the first post on this thread. Can someone clarify if this is the case and if the mask file needs to be updated to completely mask all of the gnome 3 packages. I do not want gnome 3 crap on my system.


I have noticed this also. The existing "tetromino" mask file is a great thing to have, and I'm grateful it was made. However, these need to be added to it:

Code:
>=gnome-base/gnome-common-3.0
>=gnome-base/gvfs-1.10
>=sys-apps/gnome-disk-utility-3.0.2-r200


There might be others, but this is what I've encountered so far.
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jpnag
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alanw wrote:
Thanks for providing the package.mask file! This is exactly what I was looking for.


Where is it? Why have those posts been deleted?

Thks
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LordVan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpnag wrote:
Alanw wrote:
Thanks for providing the package.mask file! This is exactly what I was looking for.


Where is it? Why have those posts been deleted?

Thks


the package.mask file is linked at the end of th first post ;)
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jpnag
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Upps! :oops:
Thanks!
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West201
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want feedback from Gentoo users on Gnome 3. I just installed Gentoo on this desktop 4 days ago, and it still came with Gnome 2. Is the upgrade process relatively safe ? I use alsa audio instead of pulse.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JESSEJJ89 wrote:
I want feedback from Gentoo users on Gnome 3. I just installed Gentoo on this desktop 4 days ago, and it still came with Gnome 2. Is the upgrade process relatively safe ? I use alsa audio instead of pulse.

If you are really sure gnome3 is installed, and there are no more peaces from grnome2, it could be gnome3 gets started only in fallback-mode.
Which GPU do you use? Which driver? Does Hardware accellearated 3D work?
Code:
glxinfo | grep -i render

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West201
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

franzf wrote:
JESSEJJ89 wrote:
I want feedback from Gentoo users on Gnome 3. I just installed Gentoo on this desktop 4 days ago, and it still came with Gnome 2. Is the upgrade process relatively safe ? I use alsa audio instead of pulse.

If you are really sure gnome3 is installed, and there are no more peaces from grnome2, it could be gnome3 gets started only in fallback-mode.
Which GPU do you use? Which driver? Does Hardware accellearated 3D work?
Code:
glxinfo | grep -i render


I used the command, but I get "-su: glxinfo: command not found".

Fedora is dual booted with Gentoo, and it supports my Hardware accelerated 3D. I have Gnome 2 installed for sure.
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