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rollexus
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:29 am    Post subject: For Those That Can't Quite Put Their Finger On Portage Tree Reply with quote

The purpose of this post is to rationalize emerege/portage/dependancy tree gentoo as a whole.. I don't have much time to write more than my direct experience but here it goes... On 10 live 25 node clusters in charge of terminating an average of 90,000 calls per second, not being able to stop it to for a major upgrade goes without saying.... I was sold on the idea of Gentoo's ability to compile everything from scratch, and for some crazy reason, associated that with stability and potential performace and speed increases. Not so sure if that's actually a correct assumption anymore.... On these outdated system, it's impossible to do anything! I am trying to install myodbc, and there are 88 dependecies? 88 FUKSADFKaks;pdfj dependecies for myodbc! What the hell does

( 27 of 88 ) x11-libs/libX11-1.4.3
( 28 of 88 ) virtual/jpeg-0
( 29 of 88 ) dev-libs/atk-1.32.0-r1
( 30 of 88 ) dev-perl/File-DesktopEntry-0.04
( 30 of 88 ) dev-perl/File-DesktopEntry-0.04
( 31 of 88 ) x11-libs/libXext-1.3.0
( 43 of 88 ) media-libs/lcms-1.19

have to do with myodbc? X11 Libs? These systems run on shell! There is no damned X11. Why am I installing anything to do with x11 when trying to install myodbc? Why me, why me!!!! Three days and still I have not been able to install myodbc on an "OLD SYSTEM", it's only 3 years old. We have debian machines that are 15 years old, and I have no problem installing anything today. Guys come on. I'm done with this "YOU ONLY COMPILE WHAT YOU NEED" lies.... That was probably true at some point. Someone knows what's going on with the dependency tree.

Not happy with hal, switch to udev ok......
xz-utils to tz-utils fine....

But manage the past distributions, don't render them useless... I spent all weekend emerging, yesterday, today, unblocking, emerging, unblocking FUAsdfl'k ME! I am moving everything to FreeBSD, Debian something.... This is just wrong. Someone here is working on a WMD and it's not that poor sould from Iran...
What do I do now? We have added functionality on our calling server that requires myodbc, unixodbc and so on... So other than downloading and building it from source, are you telling me I cannot rely on the OS' installer? What kind of monkey business is this? Oh, emerge --world and emerge --system corss your fiingers and hope for the best.... lol... Yeah, let's push these products on enterprises with system critical processes like E911.... I kept the installations to the bare bone. We had nothing installed on them, no gnome, kde, xwerver monkey business it was a little more than a kernel and stage 3. I'm tired, pissed off, nothing is done, this is useless, tomorrow I am going to wake up and hopefully I can find a way to fire myself. I'm sorry guys, I don't mean any trouble.

I'll let these run, tomorrow wake up, and hopefully there is an error in compiling 1 of 50000 dependencies.... An OS is not suppose to give us this much trouble. Outside of security and user account management, our efforts need to be directed elsewhere. No if the latest version of python can compile the next version of monkey business in our portage tree. 50 of 88 Getting there! Sure enough....

Do you need a question? What is the benefit of using Gentoo as a bare bone Server that has: Kernel, Stage 3, In-house Applications? If we can't trust it with this? God help the desktop user...
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dwbowyer
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds to me like the USE flags are messed up. What below would possibly drag in anything X11 related? Hmmm....

myodbc depends:
RDEPEND=">=virtual/mysql-4.0
                 dev-db/unixODBC
                 qt4? ( >=x11-libs/qt-gui-4 )"
# perl is required for building docs
DEPEND="${RDEPEND}
                doc? ( dev-lang/perl )"
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't have the patience or time to learn how to use a new OS, then use whatever you already know. Otherwise, don't expect all the advantages to come at a zero price: you will have to be prepared to do some research, to learn, and to roll your own solutions when needed. Gentoo is not a pre-made OS where you just install and forget, Gentoo is a set of tools to build your own OS. If that's not what you want, then go elsewhere.

Firstly, you are not installing binary packages, but source-based ones. This means that the dependencies will greatly vary depending on the configure options you use, and in Gentoo that's controlled via the USE flags. Check your USE flags, be sure you set -X -kde and -qt4, then use "emerge -pv" to see what remains and turn off any other thing you don't need. That takes time and research, you can bet.

Secondly, you need a whole toolchain and that means gcc, perl and a few other tools that are used to properly set up your system. You need a bigger infrastructure than in binary distros, where you are offered the final product, and you don't need a toolchain for anything unless you are into programming.

Thirdly, judging by number of packages is completely unfair, because each distro does its own. But, in any case, eighty packages is not too much by any standards. I don't think you are going to find any distro that has a smaller set of tools than Gentoo does by default unless you pick a floppy-sized one from many years ago. You know, regardless of the fact that you want to use a single tool, you still need an OS to operate and a basic set of tools under that, don't you? The decompressors are used by the package manager and they can also be used to compress the kernel images, just like in 100% of the linuxes out there, right?

In any case, compiling takes time, and much more in older machines (3 years is not what I'd call "old", though).

You are right in one thing though: if you were seduced by the idea of getting a 200% better performance with the same hardware, then you are probably here for the wrong reason and you should turn back. The performance margin is nowadays negligible, and if there's something you could gain in a concrete situation then you could probably get the same in any other distro by just recompiling with those specific settings the relevant pieces, not the whole OS. Gentoo is more about customization, but oh! that takes time, patience, and the will to research and learn.
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved from Installing Gentoo to Gentoo Chat.

Not a support question.

Please, if you need help with your installation feel free to open a new thread in "Installing Gentoo" with specific questions so we can answer them. :)
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rollexus
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giuys thank you for your responses, and I do appologize for loosing my head in the last post... Also, I should have created this thread in chat to begin with...
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rollexus
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello dwboyer,

Thank you for your response. My make.conf looks like:

Code:

# These settings were set by the catalyst build script that automatically
# built this stage.
# Please consult /usr/share/portage/config/make.conf.example for a more
# detailed example.
CFLAGS="-O2 -march=i686 -pipe"
CXXFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)"
# WARNING: Changing your CHOST is not something that should be done lightly.
# Please consult http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/change-chost.xml before changing.
CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
MAKEOPTS="-j3"
SYNC="rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/gentoo-distfiles/ "
USE="ldirectord"
FEATURES="-userfetch"


Outside of a kernel, stage 3, HA all we had was our own VoIP applications. I was under the impressions -X -kde -gnome adds those packages in the build?


Last edited by rollexus on Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Veldrin
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

please post emerge --info. this gives us an idea, how your system is configured. (my current guess, as make.conf looks ok, is the profile).

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rollexus
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello V,

Thank you so much for your response:

emerge --info:

Code:

emerge --info
Portage 2.1.10.3 (default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop, gcc-4.3.2, glibc-2.9_p20081201-r2, 2.6.30-gentoo-r6 i686)
=================================================================
System uname: Linux-2.6.30-gentoo-r6-i686-Genuine_Intel-R-_CPU_T2400_@_1.83GHz-with-gentoo-1.12.11.1
Timestamp of tree: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 01:00:01 +0000
app-shells/bash:          4.1_p9
dev-lang/python:          2.6.2-r1, 3.1.3-r1
dev-util/cmake:           2.8.4-r1
dev-util/pkgconfig:       0.23
sys-apps/baselayout:      1.12.11.1
sys-apps/sandbox:         1.6-r2
sys-devel/autoconf:       2.63-r1
sys-devel/automake:       1.9.6-r3, 1.10.2, 1.11.1
sys-devel/binutils:       2.20.1-r1
sys-devel/gcc:            4.3.2-r3
sys-devel/gcc-config:     1.4.1
sys-devel/libtool:        2.4-r1
sys-devel/make:           3.81
sys-kernel/linux-headers: 2.6.27-r2 (virtual/os-headers)
sys-libs/glibc:           2.9_p20081201-r2
Repositories: gentoo
ACCEPT_KEYWORDS="x86"
ACCEPT_LICENSE="* -@EULA"
CBUILD="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
CFLAGS="-O2 -march=i686 -pipe"
CHOST="i686-pc-linux-gnu"
CONFIG_PROTECT="/etc"
CONFIG_PROTECT_MASK="/etc/ca-certificates.conf /etc/env.d /etc/fonts/fonts.conf /etc/gconf /etc/sandbox.d /etc/terminfo /etc/udev/rules.d"
CXXFLAGS=""
DISTDIR="/usr/portage/distfiles"
FEATURES="assume-digests binpkg-logs distlocks ebuild-locks fixlafiles fixpackages news parallel-fetch protect-owned sandbox sfperms strict unknown-features-warn unmerge-logs unmerge-orphans"
FFLAGS=""
GENTOO_MIRRORS="http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/gentoo-distfiles/ "
LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--as-needed"
MAKEOPTS="-j3"
PKGDIR="/usr/portage/packages"
PORTAGE_CONFIGROOT="/"
PORTAGE_RSYNC_OPTS="--recursive --links --safe-links --perms --times --compress --force --whole-file --delete --stats --timeout=180 --exclude=/distfiles --exclude=/local --exclude=/packages"
PORTAGE_TMPDIR="/var/tmp"
PORTDIR="/usr/portage"
PORTDIR_OVERLAY=""
SYNC="rsync://rsync.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage"
USE="X a52 aac acl acpi alsa berkdb bluetooth branding bzip2 cairo cdda cdr cli consolekit cracklib crypt cups cxx dbus dri dts dvd dvdr emboss encode exif fam firefox flac fortran gdbm gdu gif gpm gtk iconv ipv6 jpeg lcms ldap ldirectord libnotify mad mng modules mp3 mp4 mpeg mudflap ncurses nls nptl nptlonly ogg opengl openmp pam pango pcre pdf perl png policykit ppds pppd python qt3support qt4 readline sdl session spell ssl startup-notification svg sysfs tcpd tiff truetype udev unicode usb vorbis x264 x86 xcb xml xorg xulrunner xv xvid zlib" ALSA_CARDS="ali5451 als4000 atiixp atiixp-modem bt87x ca0106 cmipci emu10k1 emu10k1x ens1370 ens1371 es1938 es1968 fm801 hda-intel intel8x0 intel8x0m maestro3 trident usb-audio via82xx via82xx-modem ymfpci" ALSA_PCM_PLUGINS="adpcm alaw asym copy dmix dshare dsnoop empty extplug file hooks iec958 ioplug ladspa lfloat linear meter mmap_emul mulaw multi null plug rate route share shm softvol" APACHE2_MODULES="actions alias auth_basic authn_alias authn_anon authn_dbm authn_default authn_file authz_dbm authz_default authz_groupfile authz_host authz_owner authz_user autoindex cache cgi cgid dav dav_fs dav_lock deflate dir disk_cache env expires ext_filter file_cache filter headers include info log_config logio mem_cache mime mime_magic negotiation rewrite setenvif speling status unique_id userdir usertrack vhost_alias" CALLIGRA_FEATURES="kexi words flow plan stage tables krita karbon braindump active" CAMERAS="ptp2" COLLECTD_PLUGINS="df interface irq load memory rrdtool swap syslog" ELIBC="glibc" GPSD_PROTOCOLS="ashtech aivdm earthmate evermore fv18 garmin garmintxt gpsclock itrax mtk3301 nmea ntrip navcom oceanserver oldstyle oncore rtcm104v2 rtcm104v3 sirf superstar2 timing tsip tripmate tnt ubx" INPUT_DEVICES="keyboard mouse evdev" KERNEL="linux" LCD_DEVICES="bayrad cfontz cfontz633 glk hd44780 lb216 lcdm001 mtxorb ncurses text" PHP_TARGETS="php5-3" RUBY_TARGETS="ruby18" USERLAND="GNU" VIDEO_CARDS="fbdev glint intel mach64 mga neomagic nouveau nv r128 radeon savage sis tdfx trident vesa via vmware dummy v4l" XTABLES_ADDONS="quota2 psd pknock lscan length2 ipv4options ipset ipp2p iface geoip fuzzy condition tee tarpit sysrq steal rawnat logmark ipmark dhcpmac delude chaos account"
Unset:  CPPFLAGS, CTARGET, EMERGE_DEFAULT_OPTS, INSTALL_MASK, LANG, LC_ALL, LINGUAS, PORTAGE_BUNZIP2_COMMAND, PORTAGE_COMPRESS, PORTAGE_COMPRESS_FLAGS, PORTAGE_RSYNC_EXTRA_OPTS

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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Veldrin is probably right. You might have chosen a desktop profile. You would probably be better using a server or base profile, or even a hardened one. In any case, your emerge --info should tell us something more about your config.

Answering your question above, if you want some USE flag set globally just put it in your USE line in /etc/make.conf. But just choosing the right profile will save you a lot of pain, since profiles already include a set of USE flagss suitable for the concrete task that the profile was created for.

EDITED: We crossed posts. Please, post also the output of "eselect profile list" so we can tell you what profile would be more suitable for you. As I said above, my guess is that you should be using either a server or a hardened profile (for extra security).
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rollexus
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like I was using the desktop profile "(default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop)". How the hell did I manage that one...

P.S. These outputs are from our virutal machine test bed. Not the actual clusters.

profile list:

Code:

Available profile symlink targets:
  [1]   default/linux/x86/10.0
  [2]   default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop *
  [3]   default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop/gnome
  [4]   default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop/kde
  [5]   default/linux/x86/10.0/developer
  [6]   default/linux/x86/10.0/server
  [7]   hardened/linux/x86
  [8]   hardened/linux/x86/selinux
  [9]   selinux/2007.0/x86
  [10]  selinux/2007.0/x86/hardened
  [11]  selinux/v2refpolicy/x86
  [12]  selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/desktop
  [13]  selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/developer
  [14]  selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/hardened
  [15]  selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/server


In terms of server vs. hardened, which is the correct profile to load for a server which compiles a very restricted number of packages.
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i92guboj
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollexus wrote:
Looks like I was using the desktop profile "(default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop)". How the hell did I manage that one...


Probably because you were in a hurry. Installing Gentoo is not the same than installing any random conventional distribution. You actually have to read the handbook and follow it. Setting up portage is explained in chapter 6.b of the handbook. There's a part in there explaining how to choose the right profile as well.

Quote:
P.S. These outputs are from our virutal machine test bed. Not the actual clusters.


That's a good thing, some people jump into the pool without first making sure it's full of water, you know what happens then... :)

Code:

Available profile symlink targets:
  [1]   default/linux/x86/10.0
  [2]   default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop *
  [3]   default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop/gnome
  [4]   default/linux/x86/10.0/desktop/kde
  [5]   default/linux/x86/10.0/developer
  [6]   default/linux/x86/10.0/server
  [7]   hardened/linux/x86
  [8]   hardened/linux/x86/selinux
  [9]   selinux/2007.0/x86
  [10]  selinux/2007.0/x86/hardened
  [11]  selinux/v2refpolicy/x86
  [12]  selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/desktop
  [13]  selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/developer
  [14]  selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/hardened
  [15]  selinux/v2refpolicy/x86/server


If you care about security, I'd say you must go for hardened. But it takes a bit more work to get it set up. Some software can be tricky to get up and running. In any case, since you are doing thing the right way inside a VM you can always just start afresh with a server profile if hardened is too much for you. I promise you the second time you install Gentoo it will take much less effort and time. If you want to try hardened, be sure to check this as well:

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/hardened/selinux/selinux-handbook.xml

Also, it's really been long since the last time I used hardened, so, if I were you, I'd open a new thread in the "Installing Gentoo" subforum, to obtain fresh information on how to proceed about this. All I know about hardened Gentoo might be slightly or completely out of date, I warned you ;)
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How aboout this as a scenario, a hardened system where we download and compile the set of software that we need without depending on portage. I would even go as far as saying. Installing gentoo, kernel, stage 3, and handle the rest on our own. Starting with gcc, pearl, linux-headers, and moving on to whatever software we need.... Thank you all for your responses. We will be upgrading all 250 to the latest version of gentoo, I just want to make sure we do it in the best manner. The strategy on how we are going to do this while keeping our services running is a whole different ball game....
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have many servers in a homogeneous environment, consider having a build machine that makes packages, then the other computers just pull the binary packages you have built - that will be quicker and also reduce the dependencies pulled in, as build time deps are unnecessary.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark_alec wrote:
If you have many servers in a homogeneous environment, consider having a build machine that makes packages, then the other computers just pull the binary packages you have built - that will be quicker and also reduce the dependencies pulled in, as build time deps are unnecessary.


Hello Mark,

That is also what we are considering. Will look into the handbook and forums on how this can be done. Thank you!
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