Gentoo newb: I'm falling in love!

[Phill]

Ok so last night I embarked on my first real linux adventure.

A newb with gentoo? Run for cover!

I've installed linux several times, since the late 90's never quite got on with it, always had some sort of hardware that couldn't be recognised or another. Now things seem much better in that respect, having just installed Suse on my friend's computer it detected everything and worked first time. This is something I don't like about linux. It's easy up to a point and getting easier all the time, but when you hit a wall; my god you hit that wall fast and hard! Everything's running along smoothly then you try the soundcard, or the network. This is where the computer goblins start running riot. First they let you run an automatic wizard and woo it doesn't work. You get told something has failed and will restart when you reload X, you then try a tutorial off the net reconfigure 15 files and still get told to bugger off. 90 minutes later Windows is back.

So why am I going for Gentoo if I've had problems with the point and click environment? It's not just the speed, or the great community here that attracted to me. It's that it gives me the ability throughout the install to shoot my foot of at any time... ...with a thermo-nuclear device. I like that. I tried a quick install on my old PC and ran into all sorts of trouble, a couple of reinstalls and still failed to do a complete install. I learnt a lot, and with that PC that was the object of the exercise. I daresay when my new components are all put into the same case and my new PC is completed I shall be using the search function on this site like the madman I quite obviously am.

So why Linux? and what do I want to use it for?

I've always liked the idea of free software and open source software; one day I will learn to program and hopefully code something useful, or at least part of something useful. My laptop (windows XP) runs Audacity, OpenOffice, Firefox, The GIMP; I develop websites using PHP and MySQL. I'm not anti windows, it's good at what it does, provide a decent easy to use desktop for people who do nothing adventurous with their PC. The first thing I want to use gentoo for (after getting the internet, up and running, network running and general day to day use of a PC sorted i.e. writing letters, e-mails, chatting online, etc) is to record music. Sound has always seemed to me to be a weak point for linux. OpenOffice is good, not quite M$ Office yet, but it's coming along nicely and fits my needs. I've seen some results people have got with the GIMP rival that of Adobe Photoshop. I am hoping I find a good piece of software out there for recording music, or if not that then at least a piece of music software out there with active development that would appreciate my input on what makes good Audio software. I've only tried Audacity so far, and I can't say I was impressed, good for free software? yes; able to compete with top audio software? no chance. I'm not saying you can't get good results with Audacity, it just doesn't have the quality of the highly commercial music software. I'll be ecstatic if someone can point me to some great haven for me filled with great pieces of audio software, free or open source plugins, I'll take a look. I've got a few pieces of software I want to look at as soon as I install linux because you don't know how good it is until you've recorded in it. When I am confident using Linux on a day to day basis I hope to be able to put something back into the community, particularly with respect to the audio aspects of Linux.

The other thing I want to use Linux for is graphics, I work on graphics that are in the dimensions of meters and that really requires a good stable system; for those wondering why I'd need to use a graphic that large take a look at the photo wrapped around a taxi or a van.

So here I am with lots of large audio and graphics files. Windows hates them; not just mild dislike; it hates them! I'm hoping I can make Gentoo a little happier about them.

A quick cursory install of Suse as a benchmark for how well things are going to go showed my main two problems look like being my soundcard and getting connected to the net via the wireless network.

My first attempt at installing Gentoo on this machine it decided it wasn't going to behave when it came to compiling the kernel (the only problem I had previous to that was telling the SATA HDD to work). The instructions told me the connecting to a network thing was optional, which is ok because it wouldn't let me anyway, I'm hoping I don't run into problems because of it later. So now it's time for me to spend a couple of hours reading up why it didn't and have another crack at it. I've learnt more attempting that last install than in my previous 5 installs of Suse. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why I am falling in love with Gentoo, linux in general, and open source.

And only a couple of hours until my weekend of tinkering can begin.

- Phill

P.S. The Cambridge Linux user group seems to be down, so if there are any gentoo users in or around Cambridge (UK) who are interested in meeting up at a pub do get in touch =)

[ThePsychotic2k]

Hi Phil,

And Welcome to the wonderful world of Gentoo.

I think the one thing to point out with Gentoo is that because you are going to be compiling a kernel for yourself you DO NEED to know what hardware is in your machine (i.e. unlike an installation of windows) but it sounds like you are building your own box so there should be no problem with that.
Another mith that goes with linux is that compiling a kernel is the hardest thing in the world, not true. IT really easy, ok so the first time you try to configure your kernel you might miss something out. If you can still bot you can just re-compile it, otherwise you just boot from the live cd, chroot into your installation and change your kernel.
A little tip: I alway have the last two kernels i've compilied in my grub list, therefore if i create one that is unbootable I always have one to go back to without having to dig around for that Live CD.

Wireless networks can be a pain to get working off the Live CD, if you can I suggest you install using a wired network and then get your wireless working. If you can't, and depending on what wireless card you have you might be better off using a knoppix cd to do your gentoo installation.

As for soundcards, the only trouble I've ever had is with on-board ones because the drivers a rereverse engineered. A lot of the time the H/W mixer doesn't work so you can only play one sound at a time, although you can get S/W mixers not all s/w will work with them and IMHO its better just to spend £15 on a PCI sound card.

Good luck with your install over the weekend and remember the forums are your friend,

Dan.
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[Carlo]

[ChojinDSL]

Welcome to Gentoo!

I totally understand where your coming from, I've been down that road myself. Tried several "easy" distros, found it easy to install, but once I ran into a wall it was back to windows for me. Until I found gentoo that is.
The hands on approach to the install process helps to gain a understanding of whats involved in running a linux system, but in the end its the community and especially the forums which make gentoo for me a winner.

Back when I was still trying distros I usually picked commercial ones, like Suse or Mandrake. Maybe it was due to my inexperience, but with Suse or Mandrake, I had a hard time finding help with my problems. The most direct and logical way seemed to be the Distro's homepages themselves, but being a commercial distro, most info was of the limited "knowledge base" sort. I certainly wasnt up to the task of recompiling my own kernel or compiling any other software. Especially since I didnt even know what needs to be installed in order to compile something in the first place.

Things have gotten a lot better though since then.
If I think about it, I find that Windows is not necessarily easier, its just what were used to and what we've grown up with. Windows can be easy when everything works as it should. But thats also the case for linux. In fact I find that its even more the case with linux, because as long as your hardware is supported, most distros will work out of the box. Thats something I have never been able to do with windows. There was always some driver that needed to be downloaded and installed. In fact, even if windows provided some basic drivers to get your hardware working, it was still preferable to download the official Manufacturers drivers, so that you could use ALL the features of your hardware.

One thing were windows SEEMS to be easier in, is to configure stuff. With Windows, pretty much everything has a GUI, whereas in Linux, everything has a config text file, with sometimes and optional GUI.
A GUI is easier on the eyes and can certainly help to make things look less confusing. BUT!! What about when the graphic part of your system fails for some reason and all you can do is get to the recovery console. Thats when your really screwed. This is the case where I find Linux easier, since even though you have to edit a config file, its all in plain text and usually there are some nice explanations to help you along. Still looks messy though.
Perhaps a sort of middle ground would be to have a ncurses GUI for config files, with proper explanations for the different options.
On the other hand, what I find annoying is when you sometimes have to edit a config file which only has options, but no defaults. I think SANE defaults can go a long way to making stuff easier for people. You know, just to get basic stuff going as much as possible.

For example, a lot of linux noobs and sometimes even experienced linux users have trouble with configuring X. It would help if there was a default or failsafe config which would let you get a desktop running at 800x600@60hz via framebuffer or vga mode or whatever.
A auto-detect tool would be nice, like some other distros have. Certainly if there is one thing I absolutely hate doing, its trying to figure out modelines.

On the other hand, doing things manually is sometimes the only way, especially when auto-detecting fails. I still painfully remember the horrorstories of getting certain S3 graphic cards with windows. Or trying to hunt down current drivers from older noname hardware where the company that sold it no longer exists.
This is more often than not the case with pre-built pcs that have cheap internal stuff like an internal analog or isdn modem.