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VinzC
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 Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:04 am Post subject: Geez! More than 14 days uptime using suspend twice a day! |
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Hi!
I've been using my laptop for more than 14 days with suspend instead of power down. FTR I suspend the thing before I go home and I suspend again in the evening, which makes it about thirty suspends in fifteen days. It's only because I noticed I forgot to include one option in my kernel config that I need to reboot  , curses!
The laptop is a Dell XPS Studio.
Kernel is 2.6.37-gentoo-r4.
I started to use suspend only a couple of weeks ago. Otherwise I've been powering my laptop off and up every day in eight years of Gentoo! Yeah, people happen to change  !
The only operation I need to do is run wpa_cli reassociate between WiFi sites. Not a single glitch ever since!
I thought I had to share this — I expect not to be the only one though.
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Yeah I don't bother powering off any more, suspend and hibernate are reliable.
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Dr.Willy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Geez! More than 14 days uptime using suspend twice a day |
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Hey there! Being a laptop owner myself (one who is powering his laptop off and on every day, mind you) I'd like to know what your setup is.
Back when I looked into that it seemed like a pita to set up and every guide kept pointing out how unreliable hibernate/suspend actually is. |
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VinzC
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Geez! More than 14 days uptime using suspend twice a day |
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| AidanJT wrote: | | Yeah I don't bother powering off any more, suspend and hibernate are reliable. |
Hehe, I didn't even dare hibernating so far, I must be shy or paranoid  ! Thanks for pointing that out. Any special recommendation? Using LZMA for packing data?
In fact I was afraid hibernate was a too lengthy process and the gain in time would be ridiculous compared with how short normal booting is. Resuming from suspend is instantaneous. How is it from hibernating?
| Dr.Willy wrote: | | Hey there! Being a laptop owner myself (one who is powering his laptop off and on every day, mind you) I'd like to know what your setup is. |
I feel you. I also was afraid of using any suspend/hibernate until recently, that's to say! My setup is quite general, only takes care of my hardware. What would you like to know?
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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Well I used tuxonice myself, it packs the memory contents pretty well, which reduces the wakeup time.
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| drizek wrote: | | Here in America, we are like a bunch of shit-slinging monkeys. |
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Dr.Willy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Geez! More than 14 days uptime using suspend twice a day |
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| VinzC wrote: | | I feel you. I also was afraid of using any suspend/hibernate until recently, that's to say! My setup is quite general, only takes care of my hardware. What would you like to know? |
Well as I said I have no clue about Suspend so … did you follow any guide or …how does this stuff work? |
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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There's a power management guide in the gentoo docs, I believe there's also a few pm guides on gentoo-wiki.com. Although if you use KDE or Gnome, both will pretty much do everything for you. Suspend wise, you don't need to do much, if you don't use a DE or a heavy WM, you can coble together some ACPI scripts for triggering suspend. Hibernating might take a bit more work, but it completely powers off the machine.
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| drizek wrote: | | Here in America, we are like a bunch of shit-slinging monkeys. |
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dmpogo
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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I used laptop on suspend/hibernate over a month lately. One problem I had, is that if I use 'evdev' driver for the keyboard, some of the keys are broken after first hibernate (actually one - PgDn becomes mapped to Menu, it is what using "XkbRules" "evdev" instead of "xorg" heals, but somehow gets broken after first suspend).
This is with AutoAddDevices disabled, if it is enabled, keyboard forgets all the setup from xorg.conf on the first suspend (looks like udev adds it again without applying xorg.conf configuration)
No problems like that with old 'kbd' driver. This one suspends just fine. |
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VinzC
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Geez! More than 14 days uptime using suspend twice a day |
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| VinzC wrote: | | I feel you. I also was afraid of using any suspend/hibernate until recently, that's to say! My setup is quite general, only takes care of my hardware. What would you like to know? |
| Dr.Willy wrote: | | Well as I said I have no clue about Suspend so … did you follow any guide or …how does this stuff work? |
I followed none. I just set the appropriate options in my kernel configuration and used xfce4-power-manager. I suspend the thing from my Session menu (an Xfce4 applet).
| zgrep '^CONFIG_.*SUSPEND' /proc/config.gz: | CONFIG_ARCH_SUSPEND_POSSIBLE=y
CONFIG_SUSPEND_NVS=y
CONFIG_SUSPEND=y
CONFIG_SUSPEND_FREEZER=y |
There might be some tweaks with Policy/Console Kit configuration files. Hope this helps.
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Dr.Willy
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: Geez! More than 14 days uptime using suspend twice a day |
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| VinzC wrote: | | zgrep '^CONFIG_.*SUSPEND' /proc/config.gz: | CONFIG_ARCH_SUSPEND_POSSIBLE=y
CONFIG_SUSPEND_NVS=y
CONFIG_SUSPEND=y
CONFIG_SUSPEND_FREEZER=y |
There might be some tweaks with Policy/Console Kit configuration files. Hope this helps. |
Ok, so I turned on these options and … wpa_supplicant and alsa stop working. I mean, not from waking up, but regular boot. What the hell?
Do some packages need recompiling or what is going on there? |
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VinzC
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| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: Re: Geez! More than 14 days uptime using suspend twice a day |
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| Dr.Willy wrote: | Ok, so I turned on these options and … wpa_supplicant and alsa stop working. I mean, not from waking up, but regular boot. What the hell?
Do some packages need recompiling or what is going on there? |
 I have no idea... Do you have anything special in /var/log/messages that could indicate an error or something worth noticing?
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Dr.Willy
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| Code: | May 1 02:03:07 aspire syslog-ng[1610]: The current log file has a mismatching size/inode information, restarting from the beginning; filename='/dev/kmsg'
May 1 02:03:07 aspire syslog-ng[1610]: syslog-ng starting up; version='3.1.4'
May 1 02:03:07 aspire acpid: starting up with proc fs
May 1 02:03:07 aspire acpid: skipping conf file /etc/acpi/events/..
May 1 02:03:07 aspire acpid: skipping conf file /etc/acpi/events/.
May 1 02:03:07 aspire acpid: 3 rules loaded
May 1 02:03:07 aspire acpid: waiting for events: event logging is off
May 1 02:03:08 aspire /etc/init.d/wpa_supplicant[1641]: start-stop-daemon: failed to start `/usr/sbin/wpa_supplicant'
May 1 02:03:08 aspire /etc/init.d/wpa_supplicant[1633]: ERROR: wpa_supplicant failed to start
May 1 02:03:08 aspire dhcpcd[1657]: version 5.2.12 starting
May 1 02:03:08 aspire dhcpcd[1657]: wlan0: up_interface: Device or resource busy
May 1 02:03:10 aspire dhcpcd[1657]: no interfaces have a carrier
May 1 02:03:10 aspire dhcpcd[1657]: forked to background, child pid 1681
May 1 02:03:10 aspire dhcpcd[1681]: wlan0: waiting for carrier
May 1 02:03:15 aspire acpid: client connected from 1733[0:0]
May 1 02:03:15 aspire acpid: 1 client rule loaded
May 1 02:14:47 aspire syslog-ng[1594]: syslog-ng starting up; version='3.1.4'
May 1 02:14:47 aspire acpid: starting up with proc fs
May 1 02:14:47 aspire acpid: skipping conf file /etc/acpi/events/..
May 1 02:14:47 aspire acpid: skipping conf file /etc/acpi/events/.
May 1 02:14:47 aspire acpid: 3 rules loaded
May 1 02:14:47 aspire acpid: waiting for events: event logging is off
May 1 02:14:48 aspire dhcpcd[1645]: version 5.2.12 starting
May 1 02:14:48 aspire dhcpcd[1645]: eth0: checking for 169.254.30.87
May 1 02:14:48 aspire dhcpcd[1645]: wlan0: waiting for carrier
May 1 02:14:49 aspire dhcpcd[1645]: wlan0: carrier acquired
May 1 02:14:49 aspire dhcpcd[1645]: wlan0: rebinding lease of 192.168.2.111
May 1 02:14:49 aspire dhcpcd[1645]: wlan0: acknowledged 192.168.2.111 from 192.168.2.1
May 1 02:14:49 aspire dhcpcd[1645]: wlan0: checking for 192.168.2.111
May 1 02:14:53 aspire dhcpcd[1645]: eth0: using IPv4LL address 169.254.30.87
May 1 02:14:53 aspire dhcpcd[1645]: forked to background, child pid 1692
May 1 02:14:53 aspire dhcpcd[1692]: wlan0: leased 192.168.2.111 for infinity
May 1 02:14:56 aspire dhcpcd[1692]: eth0: broadcasting for a lease
May 1 02:14:58 aspire acpid: client connected from 1763[0:0]
May 1 02:14:58 aspire acpid: 1 client rule loaded |
/var/log/debug: two boots, first with the sleep and hibernate options enabled, the other one with the old kernel.
Looks to me like there's something with the devices. Mh. |
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Yuu
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Same for me here, on my Inspiron laptop : I'm always using hibernate
But for me, it's more like 5-8 days of uptime, because sometimes I need to update something. Sometimes I hibernate every nights, sometimes my laptop stay powered on for 3 days. I'm sure we can get a ~30 days without rebooting, just by hibernating
Also, I'm using 2.6.36-gentoo-r8 + manual TuxOnIce patch, and maybe I should upgrade to gentoo-sources-2.6.37-r4 someday.
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Ormaaj
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| I always ensure suspend/hibernate are disabled to avoid an inevitable core dump from accidentally hitting the sleep key. I've never seen it not panic. This isn't a laptop though. Boot time is fast with parallel openrc. Both my BIOS and KDE load time are WAY slower than kernel loading + init (includes apache, mysql, a couple proxies...) |
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ppurka
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Geez! More than 14 days uptime using suspend twice a day |
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| VinzC wrote: | | I thought I had to share this — I expect not to be the only one though. |
I have been using suspend (but not hibernate) like this for years, since 2008 at least. It is not for uptime though. I just don't want my windows to go away.  At least 2 weeks logged in continuously is quite normal in my usage. Extreme cases have been like over a month logged in continuously. (My WM also helps since I can update it and not lose any open windows)
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XQYZ
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:18 am Post subject: Re: Geez! More than 14 days uptime using suspend twice a day |
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| ppurka wrote: | | VinzC wrote: | | I thought I had to share this — I expect not to be the only one though. |
I have been using suspend (but not hibernate) like this for years, since 2008 at least. It is not for uptime though. I just don't want my windows to go away. At least 2 weeks logged in continuously is quite normal in my usage. Extreme cases have been like over a month logged in continuously. (My WM also helps since I can update it and not lose any open windows) |
same. I really only reboot when I need to change some kernel setting. And even at kernel updates I usually just make a mental note to shutdown in the evening instead of hibernating so as to boot a fresh kernel in the morning (that is if I don't forget it which I often do). I'm at 10 days atm. |
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avx
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| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| AidanJT wrote: | | Yeah I don't bother powering off any more, suspend and hibernate are reliable. |
Wish it were that easy Used to work for years, then I needed a graphics card replacement and since then the system freezes with a black screen on wake... and it's "only" a desktop system
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Mr. M
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| I almost never reboot my thinkpad T61. Hibernating to a (LUKS) encrypted swap partition using tuxonice-sources works perfectly. |
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0ddbio
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:16 am Post subject: |
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Isn't it harder on your system to keep using suspend only? Because it still has to use some power to keep it going.
Wouldn't it be better for your systems overall health, and also power consumption to turn it off every day? or at least every few days?
I am completely unsure, I do use suspend but I always turn my system off at the end of the day.. that is why I ask because I am considering using only suspend now.
Also, I currently do it with the "hibernate-script" that is in the portage tree.. is that the best option?
I am on a desktop computer. |
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avx
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Well, for me at least, a real 'cold boot' takes quite some time, since I consider my system ready, when all services are up, which includes a few virtual machines for me and that takes rather long. As for power, if my powermeter isn't lying, my system in standby uses less power than my switch and router (< 5 watts), so I can live with that.
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VinzC
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| Dr.Willy wrote: | /var/log/debug: two boots, first with the sleep and hibernate options enabled, the other one with the old kernel.
Looks to me like there's something with the devices. Mh. |
That is *really* strange as the options aren't supposed to do anything to the devices — it's an educated guess but still I don't expect the kernel to do anything to the device by just enabling these options. What's happening when you run wpa_supplicant manually? Is your setup a «typically typical» one or did you introduce some variations? I for instance completely rewrote the network scripts but it shouldn't matter in this case.
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Dr.Willy
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| VinzC wrote: | | That is *really* strange as the options aren't supposed to do anything to the devices — it's an educated guess but still I don't expect the kernel to do anything to the device by just enabling these options. What's happening when you run wpa_supplicant manually? |
I don't remember the exact message (after all I can't post here without wlan), but it was something about the device being missing/busy and not overly insightful.
| VinzC wrote: | | Is your setup a «typically typical» one or did you introduce some variations? I for instance completely rewrote the network scripts but it shouldn't matter in this case. |
I do use some stuff from the ::systemd overlay.
udev, dbus and wpa_supplicant would be the possible offenders as ::systemd applied some additional patches on them. Nothing that actually changes the programs though, as far as I can tell.
The problems appear aswell if I boot from openrc.
As for my network setup I usually just start dhcpcd and wpa_supplicant. No network scripts involved. |
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depontius
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| 0ddbio wrote: | Isn't it harder on your system to keep using suspend only? Because it still has to use some power to keep it going.
Wouldn't it be better for your systems overall health, and also power consumption to turn it off every day? or at least every few days?
I am completely unsure, I do use suspend but I always turn my system off at the end of the day.. that is why I ask because I am considering using only suspend now.
Also, I currently do it with the "hibernate-script" that is in the portage tree.. is that the best option?
I am on a desktop computer. |
Oddly enough, I don't use suspend (or hibernate) on the docked laptop I'm using to type this. But I do use suspend on a dedicated mythfrontend at home, to make it more "appliance-like" with a faster power-on. Early in the process, I hooked it up to my kill-a-watt, and found that for that system, the additional power for suspend over "off" was practically immeasurable. These days, even an "off" system takes some power, and the keepalive power for the DRAM just isn't that much more. The only way to make the power go to zero is to use the mechanical switch on the back of the power supply, or some equivalent complete disconnection of line current.
I also use "hibernate-script", though I've recently seen something about "pm-utils" or some such, and have wondered if I should change.
The real problem with suspend is that some software isn't very tolerant. Most notably, for my mythfrontend, MythTV itself doesn't like to suspend, so my "power on" includes restarting mythfrontend, which takes more time than I'd like. For the laptop that I'm now using, OpenAFS is the problem. It can take brief suspends in stride, but an overnight suspend would really annoy it.
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VinzC
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| 0ddbio wrote: | Isn't it harder on your system to keep using suspend only? Because it still has to use some power to keep it going.
Wouldn't it be better for your systems overall health, and also power consumption to turn it off every day? or at least every few days? |
Maybe yes, maybe no. For a laptop I know by experience that if you keep it plugged to the mains all the time, the battery slowly decays. It's reversible to some extent but can lead to completely destroying the battery. To prevent this it's good to completely discharge and charge the battery a few times.
And [a little bit off-topic] I suspect Mac computers to suspend instead of power off because of how fast they come up. As a consequence I wanted to check how long my Gentoo computer is able to resume before it starts jerking.
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depontius
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| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| VinzC wrote: | | Maybe yes, maybe no. For a laptop I know by experience that if you keep it plugged to the mains all the time, the battery slowly decays. It's reversible to some extent but can lead to completely destroying the battery. To prevent this it's good to completely discharge and charge the battery a few times |
I simply remove the battery, when docked. My laptop ends up spending 90+% of its time docked, and usually when it's time to hit the road, I have enough warning to get the battery back in and charged.
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