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Shining Arcanine
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 Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:26 am Post subject: Gentoo Linux has 1% of Linux desktop marketshare |
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Wikipedia posted some statistics for browser user agents:
http://stats.wikimedia.org/wikimedia/squids/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm
It seems that Linux has 2.04% market share (91,155K requests) while Gentoo Linux has 0.02% marketshare (849K requests). Gentoo Linux therefore has approximately 1% Linux desktop marketshare. Gentoo Linux is also more popular than Red Hat Linux (counting CentOS separately).
By the way, Ubuntu Linux is at 37% market share. We should do something about that. How do people feel about asking Ubuntu Linux users to try Sabayon Linux? |
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XQYZ
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Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Gentoo Linux has 1% of Linux desktop marketshare |
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| Shining Arcanine wrote: | | Wikipedia posted some statistics for browser user agents: |
Which doesn't really say much, except about the kind of people who use Wikipedia. It doesn't say anything about the market share.
| Shining Arcanine wrote: | | By the way, Ubuntu Linux is at 37% market share. We should do something about that. How do people feel about asking Ubuntu Linux users to try Sabayon Linux? |
Indifferent mostly. I really don't care much if you want to do that. I'm not. I wouldn't want them coming to me wanting to convert me to debian either. |
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Shining Arcanine
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Gentoo Linux has 1% of Linux desktop marketshare |
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| XQYZ wrote: | | Shining Arcanine wrote: | | Wikipedia posted some statistics for browser user agents: |
Which doesn't really say much, except about the kind of people who use Wikipedia. It doesn't say anything about the market share. |
The only site more representative of people browsing the internet is probably google.com. Virtually everyone uses it.
Anyway, these numbers are likely more accurate than the figures from distrowatch.com, which people often seem to cite. |
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Voltago
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Gentoo Linux has 1% of Linux desktop marketshare |
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| Shining Arcanine wrote: | | We should do something about that. |
Why, exactly? Gentoo isn't really a 'Desktop OS', probably 'Power User Workstation OS' would be a better label.
| Shining Arcanine wrote: | | How do people feel about asking Ubuntu Linux users to try Sabayon Linux? |
They would feel annoyed, I'd say. |
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Ant P.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Gentoo Linux has 1% of Linux desktop marketshare |
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| Shining Arcanine wrote: | | By the way, Ubuntu Linux is at 37% market share. We should do something about that. How do people feel about asking Ubuntu Linux users to try Sabayon Linux? |
That's a very Microsoft way of thinking. Just because something's popular and under someone else's control isn't a reason to attack it. |
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Shining Arcanine
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Gentoo Linux has 1% of Linux desktop marketshare |
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| Ant_P wrote: | | Shining Arcanine wrote: | | By the way, Ubuntu Linux is at 37% market share. We should do something about that. How do people feel about asking Ubuntu Linux users to try Sabayon Linux? |
That's a very Microsoft way of thinking. Just because something's popular and under someone else's control isn't a reason to attack it. |
If Ubuntu Linux gains enough marketshare, eventually software developers will write code that follows Ubuntu-isms and all of the commercial binary applications will require Ubuntu or an extremely close facsimile derived from Debian. As Gentoo Linux users, we could expect to be told to switch to Ubuntu Linux because the developers of software we want to use decided to design specifically for Ubuntu Linux and nothing else. That is more than enough reason for people to try to ensure that Gentoo-based distributions have enough marketshare that they will be in a position where people developing on Ubuntu will try to avoid relying on Debianisms and Ubuntuisms so that their software works for us too.
If you do not accept that, then I am the guy with the violin:
http://www.xkcd.com/743/ |
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Ant P.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| We seemed to survive when Windows was in that position. |
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Shining Arcanine
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Ant_P wrote: | | We seemed to survive when Windows was in that position. |
I do not believe that Gentoo Linux and Windows have ever shared any significant quantity of interchangeable software. |
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Kollin
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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We should really stop those distro-wars .The open source community should care about only the open source.If we have the source code Gentoo (and linux) will survive 
_________________
"Dear Enemy: may the Lord hate you and all your kind, may you be turned orange in hue, and may your head fall off at an awkward moment."
"Linux is like a wigwam - no windows, no gates, apache inside..."
Last edited by Kollin on Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Shining Arcanine
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Kollin wrote: | | We should stop those distro-wars .The open source community should care about only the open source.If we have the source code Gentoo (and linux) will survive |
Are you willing to accept the Linux Standard Base requirement that all packages be distributed through RPM?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Standard_Base#Choice_of_RPM_package_format |
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Kollin
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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My point is that if we have the code, it can be ebuildet, rpmed or debed.Why should we care about method of distribution and point fingers towards some distros. I don't get it 
_________________
"Dear Enemy: may the Lord hate you and all your kind, may you be turned orange in hue, and may your head fall off at an awkward moment."
"Linux is like a wigwam - no windows, no gates, apache inside..." |
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Ant P.
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| More importantly, we have the code and the coders. Save the fear-mongering for troll sites like Phoronix. |
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gerard27
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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What do you think Linus's reaction would be towards a distro that wants to go proprietary?
They would probably need to come up with their own kernel.
Gerard.
_________________
To install Gentoo I use sysrescuecd.Based on Gentoo,has firefox to browse Gentoo docs and mc to browse (and edit) files.
The same disk can be used for 32 and 64 bit installs.
You can follow the Handbook verbatim.
http://www.sysresccd.org/Download |
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Shining Arcanine
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Kollin wrote: |
My point is that if we have the code, it can be ebuildet, rpmed or debed.Why should we care about method of distribution and point fingers towards some distros. I don't get it |
What happens when you do not have the code? Not all software distributes source code. VMWare Player and World of Goo are good examples of this.
| gerard82 wrote: | What do you think Linus's reaction would be towards a distro that wants to go proprietary?
They would probably need to come up with their own kernel.
Gerard. |
What does that have to do with anything? I was talking about binary software like games, VMWare Player, etcetera. |
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XQYZ
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Shining Arcanine wrote: | | What happens when you do not have the code? Not all software distributes source code. VMWare Player and World of Goo are good examples of this. |
You extract the RPM file - big deal, it's an open format. Also AFAIR both offer tar.bz2/gz files also. |
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augury
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Many distros are proprietary in one way or another. Doesn't mac os x run a linux based kernel and filesystem?
The proprietary nature of windows exposes the interworking of the system for programers. But it does this at the process level. Open source does not need this queer hooking/hacking to program. The source is there and nothing needs to be exposed as such. It's another way to make money.
If opensource isn't business oriented then opensource will do less business. QT has been knocked for its licensing, etc. The cell phone market has no need for whindows. And the source is well developed and maintained. |
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Voltago
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| augury wrote: | | Doesn't mac os x run a linux based kernel and filesystem? |
BSD based kernel, but their own filesystem AFAIK. |
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Kollin
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Shining Arcanine wrote: | | Kollin wrote: |
My point is that if we have the code, it can be ebuildet, rpmed or debed.Why should we care about method of distribution and point fingers towards some distros. I don't get it |
What happens when you do not have the code? Not all software distributes source code. VMWare Player and World of Goo are good examples of this.
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I just want to say that all distros are on the same side.They are different tools for different purposes, but they share same basis and mostly the same code. And packages that you just mentioned are closed for all distros.
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"Dear Enemy: may the Lord hate you and all your kind, may you be turned orange in hue, and may your head fall off at an awkward moment."
"Linux is like a wigwam - no windows, no gates, apache inside..." |
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Shining Arcanine
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| XQYZ wrote: | | Shining Arcanine wrote: | | What happens when you do not have the code? Not all software distributes source code. VMWare Player and World of Goo are good examples of this. |
You extract the RPM file - big deal, it's an open format. Also AFAIR both offer tar.bz2/gz files also. |
You would still have the problem of binary programs being designed around one system's implementation details (i.e. like on Windows), which means that even if you extract the RPM and put the binary files in the right places, the program would not work.
By the way, this is talking about what would happen if Ubuntu Linux were allowed to become the sole Linux desktop distribution for which people develop software. VMWare Player and World of Goo are examples of software that does not distribute source code, but they are not examples of software that were designed with only one distribution in mind. Having them work on multiple distributions is by no means accidental.
| augury wrote: | Many distros are proprietary in one way or another. Doesn't mac os x run a linux based kernel and filesystem?
The proprietary nature of windows exposes the interworking of the system for programers. But it does this at the process level. Open source does not need this queer hooking/hacking to program. The source is there and nothing needs to be exposed as such. It's another way to make money.
If opensource isn't business oriented then opensource will do less business. QT has been knocked for its licensing, etc. The cell phone market has no need for whindows. And the source is well developed and maintained. |
Mac OS X is based on NeXTSTEP, which was based on BSD 4.4-Lite, which was a redesign of AT&T UNIX. Linux is an OS kernel that was created by an undergraduate student that wanted UNIX on x86. Aside from being derived from the specifications for UNIX, the two have nothing in common.
| Voltago wrote: | | augury wrote: | | Doesn't mac os x run a linux based kernel and filesystem? |
BSD based kernel, but their own filesystem AFAIK. |
They support UFS, but as of 10.5, they no longer support UFS as a boot drive. They want people to use HFS+. |
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XQYZ
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Shining Arcanine wrote: | | XQYZ wrote: | | Shining Arcanine wrote: | | What happens when you do not have the code? Not all software distributes source code. VMWare Player and World of Goo are good examples of this. |
You extract the RPM file - big deal, it's an open format. Also AFAIR both offer tar.bz2/gz files also. |
You would still have the problem of binary programs being designed around one system's implementation details (i.e. like on Windows), which means that even if you extract the RPM and put the binary files in the right places, the program would not work.
By the way, this is talking about what would happen if Ubuntu Linux were allowed to become the sole Linux desktop distribution for which people develop software. VMWare Player and World of Goo are examples of software that does not distribute source code, but they are not examples of software that were designed with only one distribution in mind. Having them work on multiple distributions is by no means accidental. |
It better not be accidental. I mean sure, you really can have a problem with old third party library dependencies in software, but you can either a) work around those, b) ignore them as most of the time there's an alternative (FOS or not) software available. On the desktop it really doesn't matter too much and if anything corperations are gonna focus on RHE-Kernel support, not on Ubuntu of all systems. And even then it's not hard to be compatible to that either as it's unlikely that Ubuntu will change anything drastic enough to really break all software.
Sure their adoption of say "pulseaudio" could influence developers to go support pulseaudio and neglect say "alsa" or "jack", but that's always gonna be the case with software. |
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NeddySeagoon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Shining Arcanine,
You have the tail wagging the dog.
${UPSTREAM} do whatever they want - then the distros package ${UPSTREAM} to suit themselves. Some (many) of the larger ${UPSTREAM} have commercial support.
That is, some of their developers are paid somehow to work on the packages.
As Gentoos philosophy is to stick as close to ${UPSTREAM} as possible, it would make no difference to Gentoo.
Hits on a website bear no relation to market share, so in my opinion the basic premise is flawed.
Is Windows share of the desktop market really only 84.42% ?
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Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Shining Arcanine
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | Shining Arcanine,
You have the tail wagging the dog.
${UPSTREAM} do whatever they want - then the distros package ${UPSTREAM} to suit themselves. Some (many) of the larger ${UPSTREAM} have commercial support.
That is, some of their developers are paid somehow to work on the packages.
As Gentoos philosophy is to stick as close to ${UPSTREAM} as possible, it would make no difference to Gentoo.
Hits on a website bear no relation to market share, so in my opinion the basic premise is flawed.
Is Windows share of the desktop market really only 84.42% ? |
The problem is that Ubuntu does what it wants independent of upstream, so if Ubuntu becomes the sole desktop distribution upon which all standards are based, then Gentoo would need to decide whether or not it follows Ubuntu or upstream.
By the way, considering that the iOS and Android devices are becoming popular, that is likely. You need to adjust for the fact that the desktop market is shrinking as a percentage of the Wikipedia capable devices. |
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NeddySeagoon
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| Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Shining Arcanine,
You reinforce may argument - mobile phones are not desktops.
That means all the 'desktop' distros have a smaller market share.
Ubuntu does what it wants the way everyone in the bazzar does. They feed their patches ${UPSTREAM} they don't own ${UPSTREAM}
Each ${UPSTREAM} considers the patches on their merits - and that includes how well they fit in with the direction the package wants to take.
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Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Shining Arcanine
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | Shining Arcanine,
You reinforce may argument - mobile phones are not desktops.
That means all the 'desktop' distros have a smaller market share.
Ubuntu does what it wants the way everyone in the bazzar does. They feed their patches ${UPSTREAM} they don't own ${UPSTREAM}
Each ${UPSTREAM} considers the patches on their merits - and that includes how well they fit in with the direction the package wants to take. |
I think we are talking about Apples and Oranges. I am talking about Linux Desktop market share. You seem to be talking about the desktop market itself.
Anyway, 1% of the Linux desktop market is huge for any distribution. I made a small comment about expanding it and everyone seemed to jump at me. Is it wrong to want people to use your favorite distribution? |
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XQYZ
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| Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:36 am Post subject: |
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| Shining Arcanine wrote: | | Anyway, 1% of the Linux desktop market is huge for any distribution. I made a small comment about expanding it and everyone seemed to jump at me. Is it wrong to want people to use your favorite distribution? |
If it is ill-suited for their needs, yes. Why force people to use Gentoo when all they really need to do is send the occasional email and surf the web (think grandparents). There are cases where a distribution with is less prone to break on big updates (eg Debian) might actually be better suited for them.
AFAIK Gentoo Users usually realize that their distribution is not for everybody, but rather a mighty power tool for those who value it. |
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