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If clang/LLVM was finished, would you support Gentoo's move?
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Would you support a Gentoo move to clang/LLVM
Yes
79%
 79%  [ 155 ]
No
20%
 20%  [ 40 ]
Total Votes : 195

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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what C library are we trying this with?
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
So what C library are we trying this with?
avx wants dietlibc, most are ok with dietlibc or uClibc. I dont think curie is full-featured enough (from what magnus tells me).

That does raise a question, with all these embedded C libraries, are they ideal for the job and complete enough?
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
So what C library are we trying this with?
avx wants dietlibc, most are ok with dietlibc or uClibc. I dont think curie is full-featured enough (from what magnus tells me).

That does raise a question, with all these embedded C libraries, are they ideal for the job and complete enough?

I think we should target a single C library and focus our efforts on it alone.

EDIT: And what are we using to replace Make and all them?
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
So what C library are we trying this with?
avx wants dietlibc, most are ok with dietlibc or uClibc. I dont think curie is full-featured enough (from what magnus tells me).

That does raise a question, with all these embedded C libraries, are they ideal for the job and complete enough?

I think we should target a single C library and focus our efforts on it alone.

EDIT: And what are we using to replace Make and all them?
leave them? Bsd ones?

No-one is saying "no GNU", just less bloat and less reliance on GNU
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djdunn
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Use the best available imo

if microsoft made the best free libraries in the world i would use them but they dont so i dont
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/me should really get around to actually pushing some code to his new userland libraries/tools.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

syntropy wrote:
/me should really get around to actually pushing some code to his new userland libraries/tools.
well bloody start putting a system together! :P
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grrr... You can't compile C and C++ to bitcode! Oh well, like it matters.
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bitcode?

- John
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
Bitcode?

- John

Bitcode is to LLVM as bytecode is to Java.
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swirling_vortex
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, maybe the Gentoo/FreeBSD port has some use after all...
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be neat if LLVM-GCC was exposed in gcc-config.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://llvm.org/demo/index.cgi
Cool little web demo.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
That does raise a question, with all these embedded C libraries, are they ideal for the job and complete enough?

uClibC is pretty complete, it lack fts.h though, which is a bummer.
Google's Bionic libc could work as well: http://discuz-android.blogspot.com/2008/10/google-android-native-libc-bionic.html http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/bionic.git;a=summary
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mh, I'd like to compile everything in portage except @system with ICC/glibc for starters, someone got an idea how to best do this? chroot? VM? System would be a Core i7 with 16GB and 2TB free space as of now.
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Ant P.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It'd be nice to have eglibc as an option.
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pigeon768
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
It would be neat if LLVM-GCC was exposed in gcc-config.
IIRC llvm-gcc is not well supported. Most of the development effort is behind clang.

When gcc 4.5 is released, dragonegg might be worth looking into.

I don't think replacing gcc with llvm will make systems faster or more stable. Replacing glibc with something like uclibc would, but that would break all sorts of shit. There is no drop in replacement for glibc.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

avx wrote:
I'd love to kick out gcc, I'm actually quite happy with ICC (for what it compiles, that is) and since LLVM seems promising, I'd go for it.

Seconded.
I have clang installed and use it wo build my (few) C programs. I'd be in for testing compilation of my system with clang.

avx wrote:
On the other hand, I don't think that'll ever happen on Gentoo. I remember, how I requested to drop BASH about three years ago and the answers only been "no want do, to much work".

Well, going from bash to sh would be a step forward imo.

cokehabit wrote:
heh, Gentoo2 or Gentootoo

Gentwo would get my vote :)
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr.Willy wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
heh, Gentoo2 or Gentootoo

Gentwo would get my vote :)
It would have to be Gentootwo then
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
I dont think curie is full-featured enough (from what magnus tells me).

Curie isn't at all intended to be a libc replacement.

It'd probably be better to start a new one from scratch, and just do it properly.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Am I wrong to say that if glibc isn't portable then it's broken?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AidanJT wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
I dont think curie is full-featured enough (from what magnus tells me).

Curie isn't at all intended to be a libc replacement.

It'd probably be better to start a new one from scratch, and just do it properly.


That's the trick to it all though. (Emphasis mine.)

wswartzendruber wrote:
Am I wrong to say that if glibc isn't portable then it's broken?

It is portable, as long as you define portable to mean, "I can infect your system with my crap without any extra work."
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mdeininger
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AidanJT wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
I dont think curie is full-featured enough (from what magnus tells me).

Curie isn't at all intended to be a libc replacement.

It'd probably be better to start a new one from scratch, and just do it properly.
that's kind of what curie is doing though. but yeah it'd be quite the bitch to port all the current tools to it, since it's not only not similar in interface to posix, there's not a single function call that would be the same... which is good since it means the backup implementation just uses posix, meaning porting is far less of an issue.

there's so much wrong with the ansi libcs and posix though, it's surprising it's still that "popular". just thinking of all the *printf() shit makes me wanna stab someone.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

syntropy wrote:
AidanJT wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
I dont think curie is full-featured enough (from what magnus tells me).

Curie isn't at all intended to be a libc replacement.

It'd probably be better to start a new one from scratch, and just do it properly.


That's the trick to it all though. (Emphasis mine.)

wswartzendruber wrote:
Am I wrong to say that if glibc isn't portable then it's broken?

It is portable, as long as you define portable to mean, "I can infect your system with my crap without any extra work."

What I was trying to says is this: If glibc doesn't follow the ANSI standards, isn't it broken?
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2/3 support is quite high
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