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If clang/LLVM was finished, would you support Gentoo's move?
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Would you support a Gentoo move to clang/LLVM
Yes
79%
 79%  [ 155 ]
No
20%
 20%  [ 40 ]
Total Votes : 195

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Shining Arcanine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:44 am    Post subject: Re: If clang/LLVM was finished, would you support Gentoo's m Reply with quote

slycordinator wrote:
Chopinzee wrote:
cokehabit wrote:

Once people move away from GCC and Glibc what is left? TURD?


Don't knock HURD, it's going to be the shiznit come 2152.
A while back I had made a half-hearted attempt at coming up with what HURD really stands for. It was Hopefully it-Ull be Release some Day.


While I do not want to derail the topic, I would like to nominate:

Hopefully
Unintended
Release
Date
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pjp wrote:
Moved from Off the Wall to Gentoo Chat.

Thread dead in 3... 2... 1...
[in a Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction voice whilst sitting on a Harley]

"Thread's dead, baby. Thread's dead"

(If you dont get the reference i'll tell you)
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
pjp wrote:
Moved from Off the Wall to Gentoo Chat.

Thread dead in 3... 2... 1...
[in a Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction voice whilst sitting on a Harley]

"Thread's dead, baby. Thread's dead"

(If you dont get the reference i'll tell you)

So you killed the tread, AND the guy who owned the bike?
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:46 am    Post subject: Re: If clang/LLVM was finished, would you support Gentoo's m Reply with quote

Shining Arcanine wrote:
slycordinator wrote:
Chopinzee wrote:
cokehabit wrote:

Once people move away from GCC and Glibc what is left? TURD?


Don't knock HURD, it's going to be the shiznit come 2152.
A while back I had made a half-hearted attempt at coming up with what HURD really stands for. It was Hopefully it-Ull be Release some Day.


While I do not want to derail the topic, I would like to nominate:

Hopefully
Unintended
Release
Date
Hardly Under Real Development?
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
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Shining Arcanine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Shining Arcanine wrote:
slycordinator wrote:
Chopinzee wrote:
cokehabit wrote:

Once people move away from GCC and Glibc what is left? TURD?


Don't knock HURD, it's going to be the shiznit come 2152.
A while back I had made a half-hearted attempt at coming up with what HURD really stands for. It was Hopefully it-Ull be Release some Day.


While I do not want to derail the topic, I would like to nominate:

Hopefully
Unintended
Release
Date
Hardly Under Real Development?


You win. That acronym is pure genius.

Moving back on topic, what is the actual liklihood that the Gentoo Foundation has the man power to follow the BSD people in a switch from GCC to LLVM?


Last edited by Shining Arcanine on Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
pjp wrote:
Moved from Off the Wall to Gentoo Chat.

Thread dead in 3... 2... 1...
[in a Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction voice whilst sitting on a Harley]

"Thread's dead, baby. Thread's dead"

(If you dont get the reference i'll tell you)

So you killed the tread, AND the guy who owned the bike?
This is not about gentoo and should be in OTW, this is about LLVM and clang
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Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shining Arcanine wrote:
Moving back on topic, what is the actual liklihood that the Gentoo Foundation has the man power to follow the BSD people in a switch from GCC to LLVM?

Nevermind that. I want to watch the Hardened team torch the Gentoo Foundation headquarters when they find out they have a ton more work.
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Shining Arcanine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
wswartzendruber wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
pjp wrote:
Moved from Off the Wall to Gentoo Chat.

Thread dead in 3... 2... 1...
[in a Bruce Willis in Pulp Fiction voice whilst sitting on a Harley]

"Thread's dead, baby. Thread's dead"

(If you dont get the reference i'll tell you)

So you killed the tread, AND the guy who owned the bike?
This is not about gentoo and should be in OTW, this is about LLVM and clang


I thought this thread was about switching Gentoo from GCC to LLVM/clang.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shining Arcanine wrote:
You win. That acronym is pure genius.
Thankyou, it took longer to bold the letters than think of it, lol

Shining Arcanine wrote:
Moving back on topic, what is the actual liklihood that the Gentoo Foundation has the man power to follow the BSD people in a switch from GCC to LLVM?
I think it could be done incrementally. I can imagine that they would have to develop side by side using both systems for the time being and get users to gradually make the switch over the course of a year then Gentoo-GNU can be a side project for a few commercial customers
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Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
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Shining Arcanine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Shining Arcanine wrote:
You win. That acronym is pure genius.
Thankyou, it took longer to bold the letters than think of it, lol

Shining Arcanine wrote:
Moving back on topic, what is the actual liklihood that the Gentoo Foundation has the man power to follow the BSD people in a switch from GCC to LLVM?
I think it could be done incrementally. I can imagine that they would have to develop side by side using both systems for the time being and get users to gradually make the switch over the course of a year then Gentoo-GNU can be a side project for a few commercial customers


Well, they would need to replace the entire userland in order to make Gentoo GNU/Linux a side project. Otherwise, there will still be a large number of GNU components in the userland and it could probably be called Gentoo BSD-GNU/Linux.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shining Arcanine wrote:
thought this thread was about switching Gentoo from GCC to LLVM/clang.
the poll (which 3 people have voted on but there are about 10 who have posted, wtf?) says Would you support a Gentoo move to clang/LLVM to it's not about Gentoo, it's about you and would your support end if the userland was changed.

We could have it about Ubuntu if you prefer?
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Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shining Arcanine wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Shining Arcanine wrote:
You win. That acronym is pure genius.
Thankyou, it took longer to bold the letters than think of it, lol

Shining Arcanine wrote:
Moving back on topic, what is the actual liklihood that the Gentoo Foundation has the man power to follow the BSD people in a switch from GCC to LLVM?
I think it could be done incrementally. I can imagine that they would have to develop side by side using both systems for the time being and get users to gradually make the switch over the course of a year then Gentoo-GNU can be a side project for a few commercial customers


Well, they would need to replace the entire userland in order to make Gentoo GNU/Linux a side project. Otherwise, there will still be a large number of GNU components in the userland and it could probably be called Gentoo BSD-GNU/Linux.
we could then change the name from "Gentoo Linux" to "Convoluted Linux"
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"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
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Shining Arcanine
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Shining Arcanine wrote:
thought this thread was about switching Gentoo from GCC to LLVM/clang.
the poll (which 3 people have voted on but there are about 10 who have posted, wtf?) says Would you support a Gentoo move to clang/LLVM to it's not about Gentoo, it's about you and would your support end if the userland was changed.

We could have it about Ubuntu if you prefer?


It seems more about changing a portion of the userland (i.e. the toolchain) than it is about changing the entire userland.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shining Arcanine wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
Shining Arcanine wrote:
thought this thread was about switching Gentoo from GCC to LLVM/clang.
the poll (which 3 people have voted on but there are about 10 who have posted, wtf?) says Would you support a Gentoo move to clang/LLVM to it's not about Gentoo, it's about you and would your support end if the userland was changed.

We could have it about Ubuntu if you prefer?
It seems more about changing a portion of the userland (i.e. the toolchain) than it is about changing the entire userland.
I'm just being broad as i'm tired and going to bed. nn
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tylerwylie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definitely help where I could, filing bug reports and trying fixes and what not.

And I don't even use Gentoo currently, would be willing to help with what free time I have though for clang/llvm adoption.
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You all really should look at what LLVM really is. Gentoo on an interpreter? Eeww. I vote, "Heck no."

- John
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
You all really should look at what LLVM really is. Gentoo on an interpreter? Eeww. Anyway, I vote, "Heck no."

- John

Wikipedia wrote:
LLVM allows code to be compiled statically, as it is under the traditional GCC system, or left for late-compiling from the IF to machine code in a just-in-time compiler (JIT) in a fashion similar to Java.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
You all really should look at what LLVM really is. Gentoo on an interpreter? Eeww. I vote, "Heck no."

- John
Nothing on the wikipedia page or the project's main page section that lists exactly what the project is indicates it to be an interpreter.

Really, you need to look at what it is.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I think I stand corrected, mostly. However, a virtual machine implies some level of abstraction and thus inefficiency. Twenty years ago, people were making statement like, "It'll be great when Microsoft rewrites their Office suite in Java...". (I actually read this in Byte magazine.) State of the art can change, of course, but compilers that only have access to the byte code have typically not generated native code that is as good as compilers that have access to the source.

However, I do stand corrected. It'll be interesting to follow the project. But, seriously, it's early days. I still vote no.

- John
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: If clang/LLVM was finished, would you support Gentoo's m Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Shining Arcanine wrote:
slycordinator wrote:
Chopinzee wrote:
cokehabit wrote:

Once people move away from GCC and Glibc what is left? TURD?


Don't knock HURD, it's going to be the shiznit come 2152.
A while back I had made a half-hearted attempt at coming up with what HURD really stands for. It was Hopefully it-Ull be Release some Day.


While I do not want to derail the topic, I would like to nominate:

Hopefully
Unintended
Release
Date
Hardly Under Real Development?

But hey, didn't you get the memo? Tanenbaum said that Linux was obsolete. Microkernels are all the rage now. :P

http://oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/appa.html
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Gentoo for all sort of applications. Linux is not only a desktop OS. GCC toolchain is very important in embedded applications. May be it is a good idea for Apple and BSD but I hate to see Gentoo going down this route.
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wswartzendruber
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yzg wrote:
I use Gentoo for all sort of applications. Linux is not only a desktop OS. GCC toolchain is very important in embedded applications. May be it is a good idea for Apple and BSD but I hate to see Gentoo going down this route.

Eh, why not?
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John R. Graham wrote:
Well, I think I stand corrected, mostly. However, a virtual machine implies some level of abstraction and thus inefficiency. Twenty years ago, people were making statement like, "It'll be great when Microsoft rewrites their Office suite in Java...". (I actually read this in Byte magazine.) State of the art can change, of course, but compilers that only have access to the byte code have typically not generated native code that is as good as compilers that have access to the source.

However, I do stand corrected. It'll be interesting to follow the project. But, seriously, it's early days. I still vote no.

- John
people are still stuck in 1998, java isn't slow anymore. And virtual machines, with the big increases in power and speed of computers, will make more and more sense soon.
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: If clang/LLVM was finished, would you support Gentoo's m Reply with quote

swirling_vortex wrote:
But hey, didn't you get the memo? Tanenbaum said that Linux was obsolete. Microkernels are all the rage now. :P

http://oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/appa.html
there are lots of things to be said about moving linux away from a monolithic to hybrid kernel though
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"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
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Butts McCokey
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wswartzendruber wrote:
yzg wrote:
I use Gentoo for all sort of applications. Linux is not only a desktop OS. GCC toolchain is very important in embedded applications. May be it is a good idea for Apple and BSD but I hate to see Gentoo going down this route.

Eh, why not?
because if you want to get things done on an architecture then you port the GCC to it. GCC seems to be the universal compiler.
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