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wswartzendruber
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Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1155
Location: California, USA
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 Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:45 am Post subject: The House Has Passed the Senate Health Care Bill |
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I just saw it on C-SPAN a few seconds ago.
EDIT: 219-212 |
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cokehabit
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Joined: 23 Apr 2004
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Old School
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Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 230
Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:56 am Post subject: |
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I can't wait for the fall elections.
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speeddemon
Apprentice
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:00 am Post subject: |
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You still don't get it do you?
This bill is NOTHING like what the rest of the world does. It isn't going to fix anything. Instead of
"I can't afford insurance", its going to be
"I can't afford insurance, but I don't qualify for subsidies. If I don't buy insurance I'm going to be fined, which is money I obviously don't have" or
"I got layed off because my employer had to either pay for insurance or face fines".
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warrens
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Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 210
Location: Don't Tread On Me!
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:01 am Post subject: |
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219 TRAITORS!!! This soon to be law is UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!
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The BIGGER the GOVERNMENT, the smaller the citizen.
DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!
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The best government is the government that governs least.
Last edited by warrens on Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wswartzendruber
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Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Posts: 1155
Location: California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| Props to the Republicans for not having a single vote in favor. |
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cokehabit
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Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| speeddemon wrote: |
You still don't get it do you?
This bill is NOTHING like what the rest of the world does. It isn't going to fix anything. Instead of
"I can't afford insurance", its going to be
"I can't afford insurance, but I don't qualify for subsidies. If I don't buy insurance I'm going to be fined, which is money I obviously don't have" or
"I got layed off because my employer had to either pay for insurance or face fines". |
well that sounds like it doesn't fix the actual problem at all.
Is this bill aimed at perhaps bridging the gap between proper socialised healthcare and the mess that you are currently in? |
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cokehabit
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Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| warrens wrote: | | 219 TRAITORS!!! This soon to be law is UNCONTITUTIONAL!!! |
pass the tin foil hat |
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Mardok45
n00b
Joined: 21 Jun 2008
Posts: 48
Location: Right behind you
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:09 am Post subject: |
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I have a question for all you people here who live in any country in Europe...
How much is the average plane ticket from the US to any country over there? |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 654
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:09 am Post subject: |
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The motion to send back was just defeated.
This is heading to the courts now.
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| ichbinsisyphos wrote: | | You know, personally I've never been the greatest fan of Negroes |
The Philosophy of Liberty |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 654
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | warrens wrote: | | 219 TRAITORS!!! This soon to be law is UNCONTITUTIONAL!!! |
pass the tin foil hat |
it is an unconstitutional law cokey. No where in the constitution is the government allowed to force you to buy a service for just being alive.
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| ichbinsisyphos wrote: | | You know, personally I've never been the greatest fan of Negroes |
The Philosophy of Liberty |
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speeddemon
Apprentice
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | speeddemon wrote: |
You still don't get it do you?
This bill is NOTHING like what the rest of the world does. It isn't going to fix anything. Instead of
"I can't afford insurance", its going to be
"I can't afford insurance, but I don't qualify for subsidies. If I don't buy insurance I'm going to be fined, which is money I obviously don't have" or
"I got layed off because my employer had to either pay for insurance or face fines". |
well that sounds like it doesn't fix the actual problem at all.
Is this bill aimed at perhaps bridging the gap between proper socialised healthcare and the mess that you are currently in? |
Exactly, it doesn't really fix anything. We had medicaid, and that covered poor people, but they had to make under a certain amount of money. This is simply going to redirect that same situation to insurance instead of medicaid.
The original bill that the house passed "was" a much closer idea. The bill that they have just passed is for the most part a mess that they passed simply so they could say "We fixed healthcare, hooray for us...excelsior"
Edit, you guys screwed up my ninja edit. way to go 
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Cats are deadly animals. If you stick your nose up their crotch and snort their piss, THEY CAN KILL YOU!!!
Last edited by speeddemon on Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:16 am; edited 2 times in total |
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cokehabit
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Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| Chopinzee wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | warrens wrote: | | 219 TRAITORS!!! This soon to be law is UNCONTITUTIONAL!!! |
pass the tin foil hat |
it is an unconstitutional law cokey. No where in the constitution is the government allowed to force you to buy a service for just being alive. |
in your view, if that what they do in this country? |
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dreadlorde
Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 243
Location: /adm/timezone/US_Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:15 am Post subject: |
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No one has a `right' to health care.
| cokehabit wrote: | | in your view, if that what they do in this country? |
Let go of teh cock and fucking type already.
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Ludwig von Mises Institute | Quote: | | I am not to be a shepherd, I am not to be a grave-digger. No longer will I speak to the people; for the last time I have spoken to the dead. |
Last edited by dreadlorde on Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 15989
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| Mardok45 wrote: | I have a question for all you people here who live in any country in Europe...
How much is the average plane ticket from the US to any country over there? |
So, we're passing a law which may not be legal, and you're wanting to live in Europe which has had socialist health care for a long time? I'm not understanding your interest in flight?
It certainly isn't because this law is too far reaching, 'cause Europe's laws are far more reaching. Or are you banking they'll sooner go so far the wrong way that they'll become sane again?
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Old School
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 230
Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Chopinzee wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | warrens wrote: | | 219 TRAITORS!!! This soon to be law is UNCONTITUTIONAL!!! |
pass the tin foil hat |
it is an unconstitutional law cokey. No where in the constitution is the government allowed to force you to buy a service for just being alive. |
You're speaking a foreign language when you bring up the Constitution.
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| speeddemon wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | speeddemon wrote: | You still don't get it do you?
This bill is NOTHING like what the rest of the world does. It isn't going to fix anything. Instead of
"I can't afford insurance", its going to be
"I can't afford insurance, but I don't qualify for subsidies. If I don't buy insurance I'm going to be fined, which is money I obviously don't have" or
"I got layed off because my employer had to either pay for insurance or face fines". |
well that sounds like it doesn't fix the actual problem at all.
Is this bill aimed at perhaps bridging the gap between proper socialised healthcare and the mess that you are currently in? |
The original bill that the house passed "was" a much closer idea. The bill that they have just passed is for the most part a mess that they passed simply so they could say "We fixed healthcare, hooray for us...excelsior" |
so it's basically all stuffing and no substance. If they proposed a bill to create a facsimile of the NHS would it get rejected 500 - 0 ? |
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Muso
l33t
Joined: 22 Oct 2002
Posts: 654
Location: The Holy city of Honolulu
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:17 am Post subject: |
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Also, it is the federal government deciding whether or not your health insurance is "good enough", not you. Choice (liberty) was removed from the American people today. The IRS is now going to be a defacto collection agency for the insurance industry... this is the worst form of "crony capitalism" ever passed by the legislature. 18,000 new IRS agents will have to be hired, tax increases are coming (with guaranteed unemployment spikes)... our national debt is beyond repair now.
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| ichbinsisyphos wrote: | | You know, personally I've never been the greatest fan of Negroes |
The Philosophy of Liberty |
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cokehabit
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Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| Chopinzee wrote: | | Also, it is the federal government deciding whether or not your health insurance is "good enough", not you. Choice (liberty) was removed from the American people today. The IRS is now going to be a defacto collection agency for the insurance industry... this is the worst form of "crony capitalism" ever passed by the legislature. 18,000 new IRS agents will have to be hired, tax increases are coming (with guaranteed unemployment spikes)... our national debt is beyond repair now. |
wasn't that one of the main problems though, the 5 million americans with no insurance whatsoever and the even greater number with inadequate insurance. Surely what you just wrote addresses that problem?
(i'm not asking stupid questions for the sake of it, it's an honest question) |
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speeddemon
Apprentice
Joined: 27 Sep 2003
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | so it's basically all stuffing and no substance. If they proposed a bill to create a facsimile of the NHS would it get rejected 500 - 0 ? |
Pretty much. I don't think a NHS style plan would have gotten rejected that badly, but if they had tried to push it through in the same way with the same public sentiment that exists now it probably wouldn't have passed.
I do think that it would have been possible to come up with a plan that could completely replace medicare(current old people plan) and medicaid(current poor people plan) and completely close the gaps that the poor fall through. If they would have focused on that without significantly disturbing the insurance industry for the time being, they probably could have passed it. Then deal with insurance reform in a separate bill, as it should be.
The biggest problem is we should have this thing crafted by an independent committee, not a bunch of politicians who are interested in votes.
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Cats are deadly animals. If you stick your nose up their crotch and snort their piss, THEY CAN KILL YOU!!! |
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feliperal
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Joined: 09 Mar 2003
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:28 am Post subject: |
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This is a sad day. This bill will end up hurting the economy, especially for those of us who work in the health care field. The bill cuts medical reimbursements for medicare patients. In the end hospitals will hire less staff (nurses, technologists, physicians) and those who have private practice will refuse to treat medicare patients.
I'm appalled by the lack or disregard for THE CONSTITUTION and the WILL OF THE PEOPLE. |
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cokehabit
Advocate
Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3302
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| speeddemon wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | so it's basically all stuffing and no substance. If they proposed a bill to create a facsimile of the NHS would it get rejected 500 - 0 ? |
Pretty much. I don't think a NHS style plan would have gotten rejected that badly, but if they had tried to push it through in the same way with the same public sentiment that exists now it probably wouldn't have passed.
I do think that it would have been possible to come up with a plan that could completely replace medicare(current old people plan) and medicaid(current poor people plan) and completely close the gaps that the poor fall through. If they would have focused on that without significantly disturbing the insurance industry for the time being, they probably could have passed it. Then deal with insurance reform in a separate bill, as it should be.
The biggest problem is we should have this thing crafted by an independent committee, not a bunch of politicians who are interested in votes. |
I think the US style of lobbying on issues such as these really shows the problem with the current style.
Btw, I love this quote: | Quote: | | Emotions have been running high at times with Republicans warning of government tyranny, a European-style "nanny state" and an end to freedom. |
"European-style "nanny state" and an end to freedom"? What on earth? Where do they think we live - where do they think *they* live would be a better question. |
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Old School
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 230
Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:29 am Post subject: |
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On the bright side for you Europeans; this will financially destroy the US.
Go to about 2 minutes and 50 seconds.
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I am not young enough to know everything.
- Oscar Wilde |
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Old School
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 230
Location: The Covered Bridge Capital of Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| cokey wrote: | | "European-style "nanny state" and an end to freedom"? What on earth? Where do they think we live - where do they think *they* live would be a better question. |
Their perception of Europe is about as accurate as your perceptions of the US.
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I am not young enough to know everything.
- Oscar Wilde |
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dreadlorde
Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 243
Location: /adm/timezone/US_Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | "European-style "nanny state" and an end to freedom"? What on earth? Where do they think we live - where do they think *they* live would be a better question. |
*You* and your pinko politicians live in Gitmo Nation East. Our pinko politicians live amongst us in Gitmo Nation West.
_________________
Ludwig von Mises Institute | Quote: | | I am not to be a shepherd, I am not to be a grave-digger. No longer will I speak to the people; for the last time I have spoken to the dead. |
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