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efernandez2
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:02 am    Post subject: Is GUI install gone? Reply with quote

I noticed that on the new livedvd there's no gui install icon on the desktop, was that eliminated?
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nikaya
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: Is GUI install gone? Reply with quote

efernandez2 wrote:
I noticed that on the new livedvd there's no gui install icon on the desktop, was that eliminated?

Yes. The Gui-Installer is deprecated.

Look here:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/releng/installer/
and here for the issues:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-6182015.html#6182015
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact, it's long gone and it's a good thing IMOO.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
In fact, it's long gone and it's a good thing IMOO.

agree ++
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
In fact, it's long gone and it's a good thing IMOO.


I never understood why they had built one for gentoo in the first place.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, i agree too.

It conflicts with the gentoo way :lol:
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d2_racing
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In fact, with a GUI, you remove the idea of choice.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
In fact, with a GUI, you remove the idea of choice.

I agree, if you create a one button installer, then "the idea of choice" is gone. But that is not necessarily. In principle, everything you do while installing gentoo without a gui can be done with a gui, too. It is up to the implementation of the gui installer. I think the problem is using too much automation with the gui install. So it has to decide lots of things itself.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How do you code a GUI interface that may handle 200 Use flags and a lot of cflags :P
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The gui does not need to handle those, you will handle them as in gentoo way. If you don't want to handle yourself, then the installer can provide some choices like desktop or server profile with sane defaults that can be altered by user. Even it may be possible specify use flags per package basis.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man I had a bad time with that installer...
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tried it a few times. Never was able to complete an install. :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GUI installer was never reliable. A number of attempts have been made, all of them failed shamefully. Even when there was one, everyone would advise against using it because it caused more problems than it solved. It was so nice when it worked without a glitch, one time out of 20 maybe. The rest of times it was 10x harder to install Gentoo using it than using "The Gentoo way", as per the handbook.

The fact that there have been many attempts and the fact that they all are not abandoned projects should serve as an indicator that no Gentoo user cares about it.

You can consider the installation as a formative cycle that you need to pass to qualify to be a Gentoo user. If you can't bother to read and follow the handbook you won't be able to maintain a Gentoo OS anyway. So, in a sense, having such an entry method saves you quite a lot of time and frustration if you don't plan to read the handbook at all.

You can always use Sabayon, Arch or something else that fits you better.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i92guboj wrote:
You can consider the installation as a formative cycle that you need to pass to qualify to be a Gentoo user. If you can't bother to read and follow the handbook you won't be able to maintain a Gentoo OS anyway. So, in a sense, having such an entry method saves you quite a lot of time and frustration if you don't plan to read the handbook at all.

You can always use Sabayon, Arch or something else that fits you better.


Nice way to resume, I 100% agree with you :P
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efernandez2
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject: it wasn't for me Reply with quote

It's for someone else that has had issues installing the os. installation following the book is simple, the only part I have not attempted to tackle is configuring a wireless network setup.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
i92guboj wrote:
You can consider the installation as a formative cycle that you need to pass to qualify to be a Gentoo user. If you can't bother to read and follow the handbook you won't be able to maintain a Gentoo OS anyway. So, in a sense, having such an entry method saves you quite a lot of time and frustration if you don't plan to read the handbook at all.

You can always use Sabayon, Arch or something else that fits you better.


Nice way to resume, I 100% agree with you :P


I have to say, i just installed Sabayon (which is binary, Gentoo Based) and it's awesome!!
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:52 am    Post subject: Re: it wasn't for me Reply with quote

efernandez2 wrote:
It's for someone else that has had issues installing the os. installation following the book is simple, the only part I have not attempted to tackle is configuring a wireless network setup.


wireless driver as a module (not built-in), cfg80211 && mac80211 as modules (avoid lib80211 unless using broadcom, in which case avoid mac80211), emerge firmware if needed, emerge wicd, and you're sorted :)

wireless is only annoying to deal with in absence of working X setup
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mandr4ke wrote:
I have to say, i just installed Sabayon (which is binary, Gentoo Based) and it's awesome!!


I will try it just for fun, it's seems to be good if you don't mix emerge and the package manager from Sabayon.

If you use Sabayon, then don't compile application with emerge, stick with the binary :P
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
Mandr4ke wrote:
I have to say, i just installed Sabayon (which is binary, Gentoo Based) and it's awesome!!


I will try it just for fun, it's seems to be good if you don't mix emerge and the package manager from Sabayon.

If you use Sabayon, then don't compile application with emerge, stick with the binary :P

It still seems good if you mix emerge and the package manager (entropy) from Sabayon. Look at their HOWTO: Install Packages on Sabayon / The Complete Portage Guide
I believe in the past if you use portage, then you need to inform entropy about it. I don't remember the command for that. Probably not needed now.
I installed sabayon for some friends who can't deal with gentoo, they are all good. And their package manager is very good (I perefer portage though). But I feel sabayon a little slower than my lovely gentoo.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rarely had trouble with the installer. It wasn't perfect, but it worked. On the other hand, I can't get a compiled kernel to mount the root file system on boot up.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
Mandr4ke wrote:
I have to say, i just installed Sabayon (which is binary, Gentoo Based) and it's awesome!!


I will try it just for fun, it's seems to be good if you don't mix emerge and the package manager from Sabayon.

If you use Sabayon, then don't compile application with emerge, stick with the binary :P


If you need to though, there is a guide on how to use both, if you need an older package, or something that's not in the package manager.

http://wiki.sabayonlinux.org/index.php?title=HOWTO:_Safely_mix_Entropy_and_Portage
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John R. Graham
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mwhite wrote:
I rarely had trouble with the installer. It wasn't perfect, but it worked. On the other hand, I can't get a compiled kernel to mount the root file system on boot up.
That's almost a Haiku to the reasons why Gentoo shouldn't have an installer.

- John
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah you are right John :P
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mwhite wrote:
I rarely had trouble with the installer. It wasn't perfect, but it worked. On the other hand, I can't get a compiled kernel to mount the root file system on boot up.


And if you hadn't used the installer and read and thought about your problem you'd now know why. Most likely you just didn't select the support for your motherboards HDD-Interface, or you forgot to include a specific filesystem, or your boot loader was fubar...
Even if you were unable to figure it out and nobody here could have helped you, genkernel would have solved it.
Jeez people, don't just give up when it get's hard. That's where the fun begins.
There's nothing like a 10h debug session for a simple problem.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
In fact, with a GUI, you remove the idea of choice.


I agree with that as well. But the fact is that some people prefer it with a GUI, or even a choice to install with a GUI so I don't completely agree with the decision.
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