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Mike Hunt
Watchman
Joined: 19 Jul 2009
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 Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| Eeeek, gui installer for Gentoo. Ick, yuk ... |
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| mmelen wrote: | | d2_racing wrote: | | In fact, with a GUI, you remove the idea of choice. |
I agree with that as well. But the fact is that some people prefer it with a GUI, or even a choice to install with a GUI so I don't completely agree with the decision. |
The fact is that some people doesn't qualify to use Gentoo, just like if you don't want to study to get a driving license you are not qualified to drive. I am not being elitist here (not in my book, anyway). Gentoo gives control, and control requires understanding on what's going on. That understanding will not magically be born into your head. You need to study a bit and be prepared to learn and "do it yourself". You are not going to learn anything about Gentoo if you sit in front of a Wizard and click Next. There are thousands of distros for people who want it to "just work". Gentoo has never been about that, and hopefully it will never be that way.
I am sure that no one out there would ever understand the existence of a GUI installer in LFS, because LFS is all about "do it yourself" and learn how the pieces fit together. I wonder why is it so difficult to see Gentoo in the same sense. The only real difference between the two metadistros is the existence of a proper dependency resolution in the later (Gentoo).
If you want something that just works save yourself the pain and some compilation time, and install Arch, Debian, or whatever fits you. |
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keenblade
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Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| i92guboj wrote: | ...
The fact is that some people doesn't qualify to use Gentoo, just like if you don't want to study to get a driving license you are not qualified to drive. I am not being elitist here (not in my book, anyway). Gentoo gives control, and control requires understanding on what's going on. That understanding will not magically be born into your head. You need to study a bit and be prepared to learn and "do it yourself". You are not going to learn anything about Gentoo if you sit in front of a Wizard and click Next. There are thousands of distros for people who want it to "just work". Gentoo has never been about that, and hopefully it will never be that way.
I am sure that no one out there would ever understand the existence of a GUI installer in LFS, because LFS is all about "do it yourself" and learn how the pieces fit together. I wonder why is it so difficult to see Gentoo in the same sense. The only real difference between the two metadistros is the existence of a proper dependency resolution in the later (Gentoo).
If you want something that just works save yourself the pain and some compilation time, and install Arch, Debian, or whatever fits you. |
To get a driving license, you don't have to learn building a car from pieces. Just because you can't build a car, do you think you are not qualified to drive? I think building and using are just different things. Just like that, installing an os and using and os are different things.
I believe the main thing is not installing an operating system, but using an operating system being productive or doing something for your purposes.
I agree most of the things you say. One must learn at least how to deal with his system. For LFS you are right. In their home page they say
| Quote: | | LFS teaches people how a Linux system works internally. |
But if you look at gentoo home and about pages, it is not in the same sense. Although gentoo can satisfy the geeks sitting in front of a computer 24 hours a day, it is more than that. With its extreme configurability and performance wise nature, it is a real world os.
| Quote: | | Gentoo can become an ideal secure server, development workstation, professional desktop, gaming system, embedded solution or something else -- whatever you need it to be. Because of its near-unlimited adaptability, we call Gentoo a metadistribution. |
Anyway, in the end, who doesn't want to learn anything, will go for something else like arch, somebuntu and mostly mac or windows.
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i92guboj
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Joined: 30 Nov 2004
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Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| keenblade wrote: |
To get a driving license, you don't have to learn building a car from pieces. |
Ugh!, but the fact is that Gentoo is about building cars. Which is what most people don't get at all. If you don't want to build a custom car then just buy one. There are lots of brands that do that like Mandriva, Debian, Arch, etc. Gentoo is like mechanics to cars, like luthiers to guitars, like carpenters to wardrobes. Do you want to build an OS? Then be prepared to build it. If you just want to use it then pick a pre-made one, right?
| Quote: | | Anyway, in the end, who doesn't want to learn anything, will go for something else like arch, somebuntu and mostly mac or windows. |
The difference is that due to a false illusion (a.k.a. "GUI installer") they will be wasting their time instead of picking the right tool for them. |
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keenblade
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Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| i92guboj wrote: |
Ugh!, but the fact is that Gentoo is about building cars. Which is what most people don't get at all. |
Yes, so true. But it is also about driving the car that you build.
| Quote: | | [The difference is that due to a false illusion (a.k.a. "GUI installer") they will be wasting their time instead of picking the right tool for them. |
The existence of the "GUI installer" is not meant for the novices. It was for the advanced users who know what they do. And the goal of the installer was to make installations faster, not easier.
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Muso
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| Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'm with i92guboj on this one. Without being able able to install Gentoo via cli, how is one expected to even administer the box after install?
Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned that installing Gentoo was a sort of test to see if you are able to use Gentoo... that seems to me to be the best view on the process.
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d2_racing
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| Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| In fact, Gentoo is really something to install the first time. |
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Installing Gentoo
