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Draqear
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:25 am    Post subject: Hello Gentoo Reply with quote

Hello Gentoo,
Im still a windows user, however Microsofts recent draconian activation schemes and the XPerience 8O of trying XP on my secondary machine have finally pushed me over the edge. Gentoo will definately be my Linux install however im having a HECK of a time deciding on KDE, or Gnome 2. Add in window managers and my head begins to ache a little bit. Im pretty adventurous and not too technically inept and love to read, in short can anyone point me to a place or places where I can semi easily study up on the nuts and bolts differences? Im sorta leaning towards Gnome because Redhat and Sun Micro both endorse it....Thoughts? Any assistance will be Greatly Apreciated.
Thank you all for any help in this matter as I simply dont have the time to try multiple installs unless I simply Have to. 8)
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blunted
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:43 am    Post subject: question Reply with quote

Want an easy answer? KDE > Gnome.
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Robert
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At one point I was looking for the same thing, but in the end I found that it all comes down to personal preference based on working with the different desktop options.

If you have the space, I would suggest emerging both KDE and Gnome...why not Fluxbox or others as well? Just switch back and fourth for a few weeks and settle on what fits you best.

Welcome to an OS that gives you choices ;-)

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delta407
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:54 am    Post subject: Re: question Reply with quote

blunted wrote:
KDE > Gnome.


Assuming that ">" is a greater than sign, I second that motion. But... that's not what you're asking, and I don't want this thread turning into a KDE vs. Gnome thread.

A recent poll of the Gentoo community revealed that the majority of Gentoo users use KDE, and if you're concerned about support, I would argue that these forums give way more support than RedHat and/or Sun will give without a big contract.

As far as documents showing KDE vs. Gnome... have you tried Google? :D
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pjp
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was another Poll. Can't seem to find it now, but I thought neither Gnome or KDE were in the lead for that one.
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Spark
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some facts (mind you, I'm biased towards Gnome so take with a graint of salt):

- KDE has longer in development than Gnome so it's more mature. The current Gnome 2 can be compared with KDE 2.0 and that was terrible (many applications still need to be ported, instability, etc). Gnome 2 is very fresh and not yet ready for a beginner.

- KDE has great technologie and very good integration. They usually distribute every application with their "main" distribution, so applications outside of this distribution are sometimes a little bit left behind. But those official applications all work great together and support usually every feature of the desktop. Gnome is different in this aspect, less integrated but more friendly to "outsiders", they don't really care if some application isn't fully integrated. Just one example: The Gnome browser (Galeon) just embeds the popular Gecko engine which is the engine of Mozilla (and Netscape 7). It's not as well integrated as KHTML into KDE, but it's powerfull.

- Gnome is a little bit more chaotic but they are starting to mature.

- Gnome is going a new usability route that could be described as "less is more". They remove many options and try to make it "right" by default without letting the user change every little detail. Instead of adding options to "unbreak" something, they just unbreak it and screw those who are used to something else. Of course they add options for things where it's really only about preference or taste. This really shows in Gnome 2, it's a pleasure to use even if you don't change a thing (you can't change much anyway), while KDE 3 is full of settings, preferences, menues, etc. I usually need some time to find what I want just because there are so much options. Gnome is for you if you are ready to learn something new that is well thought out but probably isn't what you are used to. KDE is more suited if you don't want to change your behaviour and would rather change the desktop to suit your behaviour. Just one example: For dialog boxes, Gnome 2 decided to place the usually used button (the OK button) on the right side, because that's the place where you look first. So it looks like this usually: "----- (Cancel) -- (OK)". But in Windows, Gnome 1 and KDE, the OK button is on the left side, so it looks like this: "------- (OK) -- (Cancel)". So Gnome 2 has no problems with breaking old habits. It depends on you if you are willing to relearn and if you agree with Gnome's view about usability (they are doing a lot of research in this area).
KDE on the other side tries to deliver options for everything that is possible in any other desktop. Example: They have an option to show the applications menubar at the topbar instead of the application window for those who are used to this from Mac or simply want it. That's what they always do, instead of saying "ok, we do it like this because it makes the most sense", they just add an option so nobody can complain.
It depends completely on you which you prefer. Personally I loved KDE 2.2 because of it's nice technology (and the fancy liquid style ;)) but found the usability to be horrible. Gnome 2 is exactly what I waited for but it's a matter of taste.

Both desktops have a lot of pro's and con's. And I can tell you, that you _will_ look at both. Everyone does at one time or another. :) And you will "switch" between them from time to time. Personally I started with KDE 1.x, then used KDE 2.x, switched to Gnome 1.4 and a while later switched to KDE 2.2 again, couldn't decide, ended up with Windows 2000 :D and now I'm back to Gnome 2. There is really only one big danger in the freenix world: That you spend most of your time trying new stuff and tweaking your system (trying new themes, etc) so your productivity goes downhill. :/ This happened to me but I learned from it and now I try to recover but it's difficult. :) That's way I really appreciate the new Gnome way of providing me only something that works and not flooding me with options and preferences.

HTH... 8O
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Spark
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn that was long. :oops:
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spark wrote:
And I can tell you, that you _will_ look at both. Everyone does at one time or another. :) And you will "switch" between them from time to time.
I must be a freak then. Never used KDE. I saw screenshots and maybe saw somone using an early version.
I decided I didn't like the 'K' everywhere. Liked Gnome 1.4. Based on what you've described about G2 (and
others that have), I've decided to not waste CPU cycles compiling it.

Spark wrote:
Damn that was long. :oops:
Maybe long, but useful. I actually red the whole thing.
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delta407
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kanuslupus wrote:
I decided I didn't like the 'K' everywhere.


So you prefer 'G'? (Personally, I can't stand the G, because sometimes it's silent, sometimes it's normal, and somtimes it's 'guh'. Guh, to you too. ;))
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delta407 wrote:
So you prefer 'G'? (Personally, I can't stand the G, because sometimes it's silent, sometimes it's normal, and somtimes it's 'guh'. Guh, to you too. ;))
I can't explain it, the K just bugs me. For some reason, I don't notice the G as much.
Maybe thats when it is silent ;). Though I did start gnoticing the G more when I had
made this comment in another thread. When I start hearing KDE is quicker, I may give
it a shot. I'm actually not thrilled with other WMs.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always wondered how "Guh" is actually pronounced since someone told me that it's "Guh-NU" (I'm german). Is this like "Gee"? I always say "Gee" when pronouncing a single "G" in english, like "Gee-Nome". So is it "Gee-NU" or is "Guh" something completely different? The way I would speak "guh" is completely retarded... (think of "goo" or "gue").
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neuron
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a lot of people used to gnome/kde and don't like the lightness of blackbox/any blackbox like wm/any of the other rather used light ones should give enlightenment a try, it's nice, it has a lot of features (comparable to kde and gnome) and still uses VERY little resources :)
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kcsduke
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just play around with Gnome and KDE and see which you like better. I personally like the "feel" of the KDE desktop, and I think that it has better integration. That said, Gnome has some great apps like gnumeric. It isn't like you have to pick on and can't use applications from the other. While I like KDE better, I rarely even use the Desktop Environment. I prefer to just use fluxbox, aterm, mozilla, xmms, and sylpheed-claws. Occasionally, I use Konqueror, which I think is an awesome app.

Use Gnome for a week then KDE for a week, then pick the one you like better. Then screw them both and use fluxbox ;-)
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delta407
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spark wrote:
I always wondered how "Guh" is actually pronounced since someone told me that it's "Guh-NU" (I'm german).


GNU is pronounced "Guh-Noo". The letter G is pronounced "gee" (how's that for circular?), and the best way I can describe "guh" is by listening to the word "duh" and replacing the D with a G. (Well, and not pronouncing it in such an insulting manner. :D)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaah thx. How come that the "gee" in GNU is spoken in such a weird way?
Is the G in Gnome also spoken like that? I hope not. =) It's still Gee-nome, right?
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spark wrote:
Aaah thx. How come that the "gee" in GNU is spoken in such a weird way?
Is the G in Gnome also spoken like that? I hope not. =) It's still Gee-nome, right?
Gnome is very closely pronounced Nome. That would be the 'silent' part.
I've never understood the point of silent letters in the english language.
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delta407
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kanuslupus wrote:
Gnome is very closely pronounced Nome. That would be the 'silent' part.


"Gnome" is pronouned "nome", but "GNOME" is pronounced "guh-nome". From the FAQ:

Quote:
Q: GNOME: "nome" or "guh-nome"?
A: In English, the word "gnome" is pronounced with a silent "g". However, GNOME itself is generally pronounced as "guh-nome", just as GNU is pronounced "guh-noo" when referring to the GNU Project.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delta407 wrote:
Q: GNOME: "nome" or "guh-nome"?
A: In English, the word "gnome" is pronounced with a silent "g". However, GNOME itself is generally pronounced as "guh-nome", just as GNU is pronounced "guh-noo" when referring to the GNU Project.
Well... I obviously didn't know that :oops: :D
If guh-nome isn't stu-pid, I don't know what is.
Since I pronounced guh-nu as nu, I'll continue to pronounce it incorrectly as nome thanks ;)
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to throw in my two cents for fluxbox, I love it. I used gnome for about 2 days, but hated it, used kde for a while... wasn't too bad, but it wasn't really what i was looking for. Tried out gnome2 when it came out. Completely hated it. In the end, I settled for fluxbox. I really don't like the lack of configuration with gnome, there's something unwholesome about it.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread kinda illustrates what GNOME vs. KDE debates usually degenerate into: "I don't like the way the K sounds!" "I think 'guh-nome' is dumb!" Etc., etc. :)

Really, just build whatever you're interested (sure it takes a while, but hey, that's the price of optimization) and get rid of what you don't like. I use KDE and IceWM; the former for most of my work, the latter when I just need to get rid of the stuff I don't need in a DE and just par it down to a WM. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:08 am    Post subject: Desktops Reply with quote

Well I have been running Win2K on my primary machine because of its stability. For me when I get adventuresome I find XP MUCH easier to break :? I dont mind a learning curve so long as there is a well documented light at the end of the tunnel. At least here I can ask questions and get answers. I think ill try Gnome 2 out first. Im hoping to end up with a nice stable FREE system that "Big brudder" isnt alway prying into trying to "help" me so much :lol: dot Net seems...*coughs* NM. Within the next 2 weeks ill be posting here from within Gentoo Linux. Thanks for the posts!

Gary
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say along with most other people that the three main desktops of gentoo is kde, gnome, and fluxbox. I say give them all a try in that order and see where you are in the end, I have used most all mainstream wm/de and in the end am and always will be a fluxbox user.

.: The choice is yours to make, as for information on any of the above mentioned items google is an amazing tool :D
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been a long time KDE veteran but with Gentoo I switched to fluxbox for two reasons: good support in the forums and it's starts just a lot quicker - but be warned though: fluxbox is a window manager, no desktop, so if you prefer drag'n drop funcionality You'd better stick to Gnome oder KDE.

I think for the beginner KDE is slightly better, but that's just my 2euro-cents
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2002 5:25 pm    Post subject: Google is nice Reply with quote

Tried the google search before I ever posted, however I used Gnome 2 as the search parameter. That didnt net much, so after ya'all advised I give Google a Try... I went back and typed in Gnome destktop...err WOW.. I came very close to installing Gnome on my win2k machine!! But in the end im simply ready to try something truely different :lol: Im looking into the various ins and outs. It sure is nice to have a community like this to post to. Thanks!

Gary
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