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Gentoo Server
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

|T5| wrote:
Well, he is just complaining, that there is so little autoconfiguration like those of MS Windows.



I dont understand why linux is not developing a autoconfig like windows


in koppix we can see a autoconfig

why e.g. gentoo is not starting a autoconfig linux ?

with all this manual tweaks and settings everybody has to find out linux will fail
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well,
I don't want any flame war to start in this thread, it's not the right place at all.

I just wonder: Why, if you like the auto configuration abilities of Knoppix so much, aren't you simply using Knoppix?

In my opinion this is one of the greatest things about linux: Everybody can choose what they like. Choose Knoppix (or, IMHO even more so, SuSE) if you want everything to be automatically configured.

If you don't want that to be the case, choose Gentoo. In my opinion the size of the Gentoo user base shows that there *is* a market for a distribution like that.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the problem is 100 people are buying a acer 800 notebook

100 people want to install windows
100 people want to install linux


windows install is for all 100 ok

linux install everybody of these 100 has to do extended research how to install linux

the problem is the experience one will get when he install linux on the notebook will be lost for the next install on a notebook from other people

overall the 100 people group who is using linux is loosing hundreds of hours of worktime

:(
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, I'm too tempted to respond, please somebody tell me when to stop :)

Gentoo Server wrote:
windows install is for all 100 ok

The travelmate 800 (just like any other pc today) comes with windows, and it is installed and completely preconfigured by the manufacturer. So I guess you never tried installing "windows from scratch" on the tm 800.

Imagine you would have to install Windows on a machine like that. It probably doesn't include drivers for any of the "special/newer" hardware, like PCMCIA, centrino, smart card reader, bluetooth, and whatever. You would have to go looking for everything as well. You would have to go to about two hands full of different web sites to look for drivers. And with linux? Most available (open source) drivers come with the kernel. And for some others, an "emerge ati-drivers" (graphics card) or "emerge slmodem" is often enough :) (btw has anybody tried the latter?)

And imagine windows wouldn't know what kind of power management this machine supports, and you would have to figure out everything yourself. What, the manufacturer put all that information into some driver that is closed source? And the driver doesn't work for windows (now, that is real fantasy :) )? How would you get power management running without the manufacturer's support, then?

Honestly, if you put in a suse 9.0 cd in the acer tm 800, you could install a complete working environment (and not just an operating system, as with windows) in consevatively 90 minutes. And that includes several window managers, a bunch of web browsers, an office suite and so forth.

"So why don't you use suse," you ask, "even though you think it's so nice and easy?" I guess the reason is that I think it's too much like windows :) I prefer something like Gentoo.

I really think Gentoo should NOT try to auto configure every little bit of hardware out there. That gap is already filled by other distros. You have the choice ;) I think a lot of this auto configuration comes with a big overhead that makes the distro bloated and slow.

Now, if we're talking about things that don't have to do anything with automatic configuration, like power management for laptops: Yes, I think linux is lacking there. E.g. I haven't gotten standby to work and swsusp is only working partially. But then again, I'm able to change my cpu's clock speed by simply echoing a number to a file, like
Code:
echo 600000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed

Now, do that in windows ;) I don't think it's possible with anything even remotely as simple as that. So it's always a trade-off. Some advantages here, some disadvantages there.

But kernel features like power management don't have anything to do with auto configuration, only with the kernel coders who don't have information about a lot of hardware, and with manufacturers who don't want to give this information to anybody who doesn't sign an NDA.

Oh, and why didn't you respond to my question: Why, if you like the auto configuration abilities of Knoppix so much, aren't you simply using Knoppix? Embrace the choice ;)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well now... let's change the subject a bit here :)

I think that the guide should be updated with the information that you have to install the "Event Interface" module in the "Input Device support" section of the 2.6 kernels along with the classic psmouse/synaptics stuff in order to have the touchpad working in X.

I had a really bad time till I figured that out.

And something else.. If its really late, you are so sleepy that you can't keep your eyes open but you cannot go to bed yet because your touchpad is not working even if you are so sure that you did everything right, make sure to check that you have not turned it off by yourself by pressing "Fn + F7" on the laptop...
Out of personnal experience I assure you that it can be really annoying :D
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The travelmate 800 (just like any other pc today) comes with windows, and it is installed and completely preconfigured by the manufacturer. So I guess you never tried installing "windows from scratch" on the tm 800.


well I am doing right now xp install from scratch
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well if we hear "gentoo should not have autoconfig"


I dont understand why there is a law to make gentoo worse comapred to other distro ?

if gentoo has some autoconfig I dont see why this is a disadvantage

I know everything is possible with linux but as the experience is not saved in a central config all exp has to be redone by each user

e.g. to get battery status working you need 30 minutes of research
ok
so why not save that exp in a central config so when the next one is installing linux can save these 30min?

8O
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windows is exactly going this way

all old config is stored in a database so when you have this old hardware you can use it right out of the box

for new hardware this dont work clear but in the next windows release the new hardware is included in the database too


this way win2003 > winxp > win 2000 > nt4

i dont understand why the linux communty with the power of many people is so selfish to dont build a database to help the next generation with that
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh and i have a gentoo server at home which works quite well after about 100 hours of working on it

but as always with linux my exp for this is lost and when onother wants to build thuch a server he needs to spend 100 hours too

:(

this IS a big problem of Linux!
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found this guide on Rage3d. Could be usefull

http://www.rage3d.com/content/articles/atilinuxhowto/Linux_ATI.html

Isn't it time to update this thread into one how-to? That would be a nice christmas present to all the Acer TM 80x users

It seams to me that kernel 2.6.0-test11 or newer is the one to focus the guide on.


-fredrik-
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried to follow the install-guide, but from installing from Knoppix. I think/hope that i've done everything correct, but Gentoo wont start. This is how far i get>

Quote:

* Mounting proc at /proc ok
* No /sys to mount sysfs needed in 2.5+ kernels ok
* Mounting devpts at /dev/pts ... ok
* Starting devfsd...
/sbin/rc> line 188> /sbin/devfsd> No such file or dir !!
* Activating (posible) swap ... ok
* Remounting root filesystem read only (if necessary) ok
* Checking root filesystem...
fsck.ext3> No such file or dir while trying to open /dev/hda3
/dev/hda3>
The superblock could not be read or does not describe a correct ext2 filesystem. If the device is valid and it really contains an ext2 filesystem (and not swap or ufs or something else), then the superblock is corrupt, and you might try running e2fsck with an alternate superblock:
e2fsck -b 8193 <device>
* Filesystem couldn't be fixed :(


After this message I can logg in as root and try to fix the problem. I cannot write to any files since the filesystem is read only, but i can access the partitions thru Knoppix.

This is my fstab:
Quote:

/dev/hda1 /boot ext2 noauto,noatime 1 2
/dev/hda2 none swap sw 0 0
/dev/hda3 / ext3 noatime 0 1

none /proc proc defaults 0 0
none /dev/shm tmpfs defaults 0 0

/dev/cdroms/cdrom0 /mnt/cdrom auto noauto,user 0 0


Do you need some more info?

-fredrik-normann-
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2003 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wireless-LAN:


The Wireless-LAN-Chipset is a "Intel Corp. PRO/Wireless LAN 2100 3B Mini PCI Adapter" and there is currently no support from Intel whatsoever. There are two hacks for linux by using a NDIS-Wrapper. They use the WinXP driver and put it into a wrapper module you modprobe into your kernel. Currently this wrapper-module from LinuxAnt is not free, so you need a registration key. I would prefer to not put any shareware-closed-source module into my kernel, but i tried it. The module can activate the card, but i can't get it to work with ifconfig correctly.
If you want to try it: http://www.linuxant.com

The second uses the same approach, but is not compatible with Intel-WLAN-cards at the moment:

http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/



Status
The driver works quite well on Broadcom cards. Other drivers are also starting to work now. Atheros AR5004 and Centrino (Intel PRO/Wireless LAN 2100) is now working, but has not been as tested as Broadcom.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TM owners, WLAN does work! No need for linuxant driverloader!

After some problems I have my Intel PRO/Wireless 2100 working great with ndiswrapper on my TravelMate 800LCi. The ndiswrapper (http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net)version is 0.3, the latest one released, not from CVS.
I am using kernel 2.4.22-ac. Compiling and installing was problem free but after 3-5 minutes I got a total lockup of the system.
Doing a bit of research and after several red herrings I found the solution: the kernel must be compiled as non-SMP

It'd be great if the main post in this thread was updated, or be remade as a mini-HOWTO. Or else it will be polluted with not-very-useful posts like it has been lately. Wasn't some kind guy up to this task?

Many thanks to the people after ndiswrapper!
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Synaptics and 2.6.0 kernel

I first tried to install the Synaptics driver as told in the guide. This failed. After some searching on the net, I found the page to the creators of the driver.

There it said:

Quote:

You need kernel 2.6.0-test6 or later and version 0.11.7 or later of the XFree86 driver. You need to have the "evdev" driver loaded or compiled into the kernel (CONFIG_INPUT_EVDEV). Set the "Protocol" parameter in the X configuration file to "auto-dev". Also, if you set the "Device" parameter to "/dev/psaux", the same X configuration file should work for a 2.4.x kernel.

When configuring the kernel, enable PS/2 mouse support (CONFIG_MOUSE_PS2) and synaptics touchpad support (CONFIG_MOUSE_PS2_SYNAPTICS).


After i did this everything worked like a charm.

http://w1.894.telia.com/~u89404340/touchpad/index.html

This URL should be in the guide.

Merry christmas Acer TM 80x owners.

-fredrik-normann-
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:11 pm    Post subject: please stand by... Reply with quote

Hey guys,

thanx for all the comments, suggestions, tips and hints. Keep up the good work :!:
For all those questions regarding kernel 2.6.0 I would like to demand a little more time,
as I'm doing a complete rewrite of the howto-compilation based on a split into a 2.4.x
section and a 2.6.0 section.

Due to the release of kernel 2.6.0 as a final (despite the bug-reports) version and my
extensive testing on 2.6.0-test8 for almost 3 month now (or so) I think we need a
wrap-up and a little more structure on this topic. I also want to release this to tldp.org
as pdf or html howto. So please don't blame me for not updating so long.


I WILL definetly inform you all, when it's release-time...


P.S.: For all our english speaking dudes-at-work. please keep your msg's in english...
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cthulhu wrote:

And something else.. If its really late, you are so sleepy that you can't keep your eyes open but you cannot go to bed yet because your touchpad is not working even if you are so sure that you did everything right, make sure to check that you have not turned it off by yourself by pressing "Fn + F7" on the laptop...
Out of personnal experience I assure you that it can be really annoying :D


:lol:
Despite the flamewar (any trolls here?) I had a good laught from this sentence...it's very nice as I had the SAME problem for hours...I even wanted to call the support... very nice...tanks...
:lol:
For all you flamewar dudes: try MAC-resolution combined with ip-assignment with windows... :lol: thant's all I say to this war. If you want to go on with this war, plz take another thread...

@Gentoo Server: 100 people installing Gentoo == 100 people less calling support == 100 hours less payment
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 9:08 pm    Post subject: sneak prewview Reply with quote

Hi again,
i think I won't sleep tonight so here is little sneak-peek on some new topics:

- boosplash
- usb rewrite
- irda support for different cell phones
- general optimization (speed, space, stability)
- compile times on different layouts
- CFLAGS and USE-Flags rework and optimization
- crypto
- root-plug
- smartcard-reader & keycards
- sound & microphone rewrite
- WLAN over ndiswrapper
- swsups with Xfree
- new specs (battery lifetime, etc)
- maybe FN-Keys
- LITTLE bit of cups
- CD-Writer and DVD playback
- video in clone mode - Beamer support
- internal modem
- Firewire IEEE rewrite
- TV-Out
- link-graveyard for all your needs
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your effort, _kev_ and others!
I'm looking forward to kernel 2.6.0 information.

Let's keep giving input about our experiences and avoid spamming this thread with flamming and trollish posts. Move them to another thread and keep this one useful and clean.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swell wrote:
TM owners, WLAN does work! No need for linuxant driverloader!

I am using kernel 2.4.22-ac. Compiling and installing was problem free but after 3-5 minutes I got a total lockup of the system.
Doing a bit of research and after several red herrings I found the solution: the kernel must be compiled as non-SMP


I have the same problem, after loading the driver, succesfully I think, the sistem get totally locked. But I don't have SMP in my kernel :

Code:

Subarchitecture Type (PC-compatible)  --->                                                                                   Processor family (Pentium-4/Celeron(P4-based)/Xeon)  --->                                                                [ ] Generic x86 support                                                                                                      [ ] HPET Timer Support                                                                                                       [ ] Symmetric multi-processing support                                                                                       [ ] Preemptible Kernel                                                                                                       [*] Local APIC support on uniprocessors                                                                                      [*]   IO-APIC support on uniprocessors                                                                                       [*] Machine Check Exception                                                                                                  [*]   Check for non-fatal errors on AMD Athlon/Duron / Intel Pentium4
[*]   check for P4 thermal throttling interrupt.                                                                             < > Toshiba Laptop support                                                                                                   < > Dell laptop support                                                                                                      < > /dev/cpu/microcode - Intel IA32 CPU microcode support                                                                    <*> /dev/cpu/*/msr - Model-specific register support                                                                         <*> /dev/cpu/*/cpuid - CPU information support                                                                               < > BIOS Enhanced Disk Drive calls determine boot disk (EXPERIMENTAL)                                                            High Memory Support (off)  --->                                                                                          [ ] Math emulation                                                                                                           [*] MTRR (Memory Type Range Register) support                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         



Any hint?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2003 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm... I won't be able to access my linux box until tomorrow so I can't post my kernel config right now.

What kernel are you running? What version of ndiswrapper? I've only tested 0.3 in 2.4.22-ac. I assume you are trying to use ndiswrapper for an Intel PRO/Wireless 2100, right? One thing I do remember for sure is that I don't have those two APIC support options...

As far as I could tell when I got the lockups, it happened as soon as the wireless if tried to send or receive a packet. Is this what happens to you? Is iwconfig reporting a connection to the AP and showing the right ESSID? Is ifconfig reporting the if is up and good?
Also, I'm not using WEP or WPA at all...

Anyways, I'll try to post more precise info in the next days.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2003 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm using the Intel 2100 card on a 291lmi acer centrio with the 2.6.0 gentoo dev kernel. I tried CVS version of ndiswrapper. It's better of I do some extra experiment with 0.3 version and without the apic and post my results again...
Thanks, Fede
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2003 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Acer 803 LCi Notebook Config (maybe a sticky?) Reply with quote

_kev_ wrote:
[size=18]
First you need the correct keycodes for your Volume keys:
Raise Volume (Fn + UP) : 176
Lower Volume (Fn + DOWN): 174
After that you'll need to map these keycodes to specific events to get them working. You have to create a file called .Xmodmap ind your home directory and add the following lines to it:
Code:

keycode 174 = XF86AudioLowerVolume
keycode 176 = XF86AudioRaiseVolume

After that you'll need to map these events to specific commands. I use fluxbox and therefore I added some actions to my ~/.fluxbox/keys file:
Code:

None XF86AudioRaiseVolume :ExecCommand setmixer vol +3
None XF86AudioLowerVolume :ExecCommand setmixer vol -3




I have a travelmate 290 series and I don't get my volume keys working.. I have to use fn+pgup and pgdown, is the same on the 800 series ? How can I find my keycode?
Fede
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Acer 803 LCi Notebook Config (maybe a sticky?) Reply with quote

federico wrote:

I have a travelmate 290 series and I don't get my volume keys working.. I have to use fn+pgup and pgdown, is the same on the 800 series ? How can I find my keycode?
Fede


Hi federico,
just start 'xev' and hit your keys/key-combination. xev should diplay the keycode, then just exchange them in your .Xmodmap to correspond to yours. thats it.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2003 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The combination it's the same but now I think I'm doing something wrong.. that's my .Xmodmap in the user home
Code:

bash-2.05b$ more .Xmodmap
keycode 115 = Home
keycode 117 = End
keycode 174 = XF86AudioLowerVolume
keycode 176 = XF86AudioRaiseVolume
bash-2.05b$


And then under xfce4 I created a new keymap theme setting like that
Code:

shortcut_3_key=Alt+Control+Delete
shortcut_3_exec=xflock4
shortcut_4_key=XF86AudioLowerVolume
shortcut_4_exec=xterm


And the combination 3 works, the 4 doesn't... (xterm it's just for test)

Merry xmas :)
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federico
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Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 3270
Location: Italy, Milano

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2003 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well now it works. It was my xfce configuration not correct...
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Sideralis www.sideralis.org
Pic http://blackman.amicofigo.com/gallery
Arduino http://www.arduino.cc
Chi aveva potuto aveva spaccato
2000 pezzi buttati là
Molti saluti,qualche domanda
Semplice come musica punk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
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