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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

razum2um wrote:
tail of /var/log/Xorg.0.log

you have a crash, that is another thing, post it at bugzilla of mesa
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wlchase
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have tried to get this set up for kernel 2.6.30-r5, and all the compiles went well except ati-drivers-9.8, which seemed to be pulled in by the xf86-ati-driver (?). It fails with:
Code:
Building fgl_glxgears ...
In file included from fgl_glxgears.c:70:
/var/tmp/portage/x11-drivers/ati-drivers-9.8/work/common/usr/include/GL/glATI.h:3744:1: warning: "GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3" redefined
In file included from /usr/include/GL/gl.h:2074,
                 from /usr/include/GL/glu.h:38,
                 from fgl_glxgears.c:59:
/usr/include/GL/glext.h:7604:1: warning: this is the location of the previous definition
/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lGL
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
 *
 * ERROR: x11-drivers/ati-drivers-9.8 failed.
 * Call stack:
 *               ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called src_compile
 *             environment, line 3469:  Called die
 * The specific snippet of code:
 *       "$(tc-getCC)" -o fgl_glxgears ${CFLAGS} ${LDFLAGS} -DUSE_GLU -I"${S}"/common/usr/include fgl_glxgears.c -lGL -lGLU -lX11 -lm || die "fgl_glxgears build failed";
 *  The die message:
 *   fgl_glxgears build failed


I went ahead and loaded the drm & radeon modules and restarted the X server, but when I run

Code:
glxinfo | grep OpenGL

I get
Code:
glxinfo: error while loading shared libraries: libGL.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory


Ideas, more info needed?

TIA!
Bill
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DaggyStyle
Watchman
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wlchase wrote:
I have tried to get this set up for kernel 2.6.30-r5, and all the compiles went well except ati-drivers-9.8, which seemed to be pulled in by the xf86-ati-driver (?). It fails with:
Code:
Building fgl_glxgears ...
In file included from fgl_glxgears.c:70:
/var/tmp/portage/x11-drivers/ati-drivers-9.8/work/common/usr/include/GL/glATI.h:3744:1: warning: "GL_ATI_texture_env_combine3" redefined
In file included from /usr/include/GL/gl.h:2074,
                 from /usr/include/GL/glu.h:38,
                 from fgl_glxgears.c:59:
/usr/include/GL/glext.h:7604:1: warning: this is the location of the previous definition
/usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/../../../../i686-pc-linux-gnu/bin/ld: cannot find -lGL
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
 *
 * ERROR: x11-drivers/ati-drivers-9.8 failed.
 * Call stack:
 *               ebuild.sh, line   49:  Called src_compile
 *             environment, line 3469:  Called die
 * The specific snippet of code:
 *       "$(tc-getCC)" -o fgl_glxgears ${CFLAGS} ${LDFLAGS} -DUSE_GLU -I"${S}"/common/usr/include fgl_glxgears.c -lGL -lGLU -lX11 -lm || die "fgl_glxgears build failed";
 *  The die message:
 *   fgl_glxgears build failed


I went ahead and loaded the drm & radeon modules and restarted the X server, but when I run

Code:
glxinfo | grep OpenGL

I get
Code:
glxinfo: error while loading shared libraries: libGL.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory


Ideas, more info needed?

TIA!
Bill

dude, this is a ati opensource driver topic, not the closed source, please post this problem in the kernel forum as the 9.8 drivers are in the tree.
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redbottle
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wlchase wrote:
I have tried to get this set up for kernel 2.6.30-r5, and all the compiles went well except ati-drivers-9.8, which seemed to be pulled in by the xf86-ati-driver (?). It fails with:

You definitely don't need ati-drivers, so you should try to figure out what's pulling that in and why. Other than that, use eselect to make sure your opengl provider is set to xorg-x11.
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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

redbottle wrote:
wlchase wrote:
I have tried to get this set up for kernel 2.6.30-r5, and all the compiles went well except ati-drivers-9.8, which seemed to be pulled in by the xf86-ati-driver (?). It fails with:

You definitely don't need ati-drivers, so you should try to figure out what's pulling that in and why. Other than that, use eselect to make sure your opengl provider is set to xorg-x11.

he should check his make.conf
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SnEptUne
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The open source radeon driver from is very stable and 2D acceleration is working okay, but I still can't figure out what I get screen corruption on icons and mouse cursor. Setting Option "ExaNoUploadToScreen" "True" does fix it for me, but what does ExaUploadToScreen do?

I tried kernel-2.6.31-rc8 instead of drm-x11-9999, but some problem. And no 3D acceleration to boot. Does anyone have any luck getting 3D acceleration with vanilla-source?
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kernelOfTruth
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnEptUne wrote:
The open source radeon driver from is very stable and 2D acceleration is working okay, but I still can't figure out what I get screen corruption on icons and mouse cursor. Setting Option "ExaNoUploadToScreen" "True" does fix it for me, but what does ExaUploadToScreen do?

I tried kernel-2.6.31-rc8 instead of drm-x11-9999, but some problem. And no 3D acceleration to boot. Does anyone have any luck getting 3D acceleration with vanilla-source?


Code:
man exa
or

http://linux.die.net/man/4/exa
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wlchase
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaggySyle wrote:
dude, this is a ati opensource driver topic, not the closed source, please post this problem in the kernel forum as the 9.8 drivers are in the tree.


Sorry, I didn't make that clear, I had installed the ATI drivers from AMD, but was wanting to switch to open source.

DaggyStyle wrote:
redbottle wrote:
You definitely don't need ati-drivers, so you should try to figure out what's pulling that in and why. Other than that, use eselect to make sure your opengl provider is set to xorg-x11.

he should check his make.conf


That was the key, and why it was pulling in the proprietary drivers! And the change to the xorg-x11 OpenGL helped jog the brain of this semi-clueless n00b, too!

Now to restart Xorg!
Bill
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wlchase
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That, plus removing all traces of the settings for the proprietary driver in xorg.conf, was the trick!

I'm a happy camper!

Thanks, DaggyStyle, for the tip, and really, everyone, for being such a helpful forum!

Bill
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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wlchase wrote:
That, plus removing all traces of the settings for the proprietary driver in xorg.conf, was the trick!

I'm a happy camper!

Thanks, DaggyStyle, for the tip, and really, everyone, for being such a helpful forum!

Bill


np, sorry for not understanding your question
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pingufunkybeat
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OpenArena works now, and almost all the corruption issues are fixed! w00t!

Nexuiz and Doom3 are still no-go because the shader support is still catching up, but you can play plenty of 3d games on r600+ using open drivers now.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pingufunkybeat wrote:
OpenArena works now, and almost all the corruption issues are fixed! w00t!

Nexuiz and Doom3 are still no-go because the shader support is still catching up, but you can play plenty of 3d games on r600+ using open drivers now.

flightgears not working well yet
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

x11-base/x11-drm with

EGIT_BRANCH="r6xx-r7xx-3d" and EGIT_REPO_URI="git://anongit.freedesktop.org/~agd5f/drm" keeps on failing for me

anyone else ?

edit:

fixed it by changing the above mentioned entries in the ebuild from x11-overlay

strangely it now doesn't fail anymore :o
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RealNC
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand the xf86-video-ati ebuild; isn't all that new stuff for the xf86-video-radeonhd driver?

Edit:
OK, it doesn't seem to matter according to http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showpost.php?p=90982&postcount=125
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ozyrus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, I have a problem with this drivers. I emerged them via layman.
Code:
emerge =x11-drm-99999999 =mesa-9999 =libdrm-9999 =xf86-video-ati-9999

I disabled DRM in kernel because I have ATI 2600 Mobility (R630)
In make.conf I have VIDEO_CARDS="radeonhd radeon"
My xorg.conf:
Code:
Section "ServerLayout"                 
        Identifier     "X.org Configured"
        Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0     
EndSection                               

Section "Files"
        ModulePath   "/usr/lib/xorg/modules"
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/misc/"
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/TTF/"
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/OTF" 
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/Type1/"
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/"
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/"
EndSection                                     

Section "Module"
        Load  "dbe"
        Load  "dri2"
        Load  "dri"
        Load  "glx"
        Load  "record"
        Load  "extmod"
EndSection           

Section "Monitor"
        #DisplaySize      330   210     # mm
        Identifier   "Monitor0"             
        VendorName   "SEC"                 
        ModelName    "3945"                 
EndSection                                 

Section "Device"
        Option     "DRI" "true"
        Option "AccelMethod" "EAX"                                   
        Option "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" "true"                         
        Identifier  "Card0"                                           
        Driver      "radeon"                                         
        VendorName  "ATI Technologies Inc"                           
        BoardName   "M76 [Radeon Mobility HD 2600 Series]"           
        BusID       "PCI:1:0:0"                                       
EndSection                                                           

Section "Screen"
        Identifier "Screen0"
        Device     "Card0" 
        Monitor    "Monitor0"
        DefaultDepth 24     
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     1   
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection                                                       
        SubSection "Display"                                               
                Viewport   0 0                                             
                Depth     4
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     8
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     15
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     16
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     24
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "dri"
        Mode 0666
EndSection

Section "Extensions"
        Option "Composite" "On"
EndSection

Section "ServerFlags"
        Option "AIGLX" "On"
EndSection


glxinfo | grep OpenGL
Code:
OpenGL vendor string: Mesa Project
OpenGL renderer string: Software Rasterizer
OpenGL version string: 2.1 Mesa 7.7-devel
OpenGL shading language version string: 1.20
OpenGL extensions:

cat /proc/modules | grep radeon
Code:
radeon 116088 0 - Live 0xf8429000
drm 68084 1 radeon, Live 0xf80ee000

Here's my xorg.conf
http://pastebin.com/m75cdd471
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mikkoc
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what "problem" are you talking about?
If it's the lack of 3d it's not a problem. 3d support will be merged in 2.6.32.
http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18961
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ozyrus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I forgot to paste
in glxgears I have only
Code:
925 frames in 5.0 seconds = 184.967 FPS
1034 frames in 5.0 seconds = 206.572 FPS
991 frames in 5.0 seconds = 198.084 FPS
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kernelOfTruth
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Option "AccelMethod" "EAX"


should read

Quote:
Option "AccelMethod" "EXA"

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone tried the KMS+DRI2 setup on r600+? The support will be merged into 2.6.32.

So far, I've only been playing with DRI1, and while it has some slight artifacts and reproducible crashes (which are known to the developers), it's quite stable otherwise.

But the major goodies (OpenGL 2.0+, redirected direct rendering, powersaving etc.) will come with the transition to KMS+TTM+DRI2+Gallium3D. So I'm interested in migrating over once the performance and stability become comparable to the current "traditional" setup.
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Kingoftherings
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pingufunkybeat wrote:
Has anyone tried the KMS+DRI2 setup on r600+? The support will be merged into 2.6.32.

So far, I've only been playing with DRI1, and while it has some slight artifacts and reproducible crashes (which are known to the developers), it's quite stable otherwise.

But the major goodies (OpenGL 2.0+, redirected direct rendering, powersaving etc.) will come with the transition to KMS+TTM+DRI2+Gallium3D. So I'm interested in migrating over once the performance and stability become comparable to the current "traditional" setup.


I got KMS to work, so the high res framebuffer was there. But I got a black screen when X started. I still need to test to test the latest commits from the last ~24 hours. Turning off KMS at least lets me get into X and have working 3D. DRI2 only works with KMS doesn't it? So I would still be on DRI1.
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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ozyrus wrote:
Hello, I have a problem with this drivers. I emerged them via layman.
Code:
emerge =x11-drm-99999999 =mesa-9999 =libdrm-9999 =xf86-video-ati-9999

I disabled DRM in kernel because I have ATI 2600 Mobility (R630)
In make.conf I have VIDEO_CARDS="radeonhd radeon"
My xorg.conf:
Code:
Section "ServerLayout"                 
        Identifier     "X.org Configured"
        Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0     
EndSection                               

Section "Files"
        ModulePath   "/usr/lib/xorg/modules"
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/misc/"
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/TTF/"
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/OTF" 
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/Type1/"
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/"
        FontPath     "/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/"
EndSection                                     

Section "Module"
        Load  "dbe"
        Load  "dri2"
        Load  "dri"
        Load  "glx"
        Load  "record"
        Load  "extmod"
EndSection           

Section "Monitor"
        #DisplaySize      330   210     # mm
        Identifier   "Monitor0"             
        VendorName   "SEC"                 
        ModelName    "3945"                 
EndSection                                 

Section "Device"
        Option     "DRI" "true"
        Option "AccelMethod" "EAX"                                   
        Option "XAANoOffscreenPixmaps" "true"                         
        Identifier  "Card0"                                           
        Driver      "radeon"                                         
        VendorName  "ATI Technologies Inc"                           
        BoardName   "M76 [Radeon Mobility HD 2600 Series]"           
        BusID       "PCI:1:0:0"                                       
EndSection                                                           

Section "Screen"
        Identifier "Screen0"
        Device     "Card0" 
        Monitor    "Monitor0"
        DefaultDepth 24     
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     1   
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection                                                       
        SubSection "Display"                                               
                Viewport   0 0                                             
                Depth     4
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     8
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     15
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     16
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection
        SubSection "Display"
                Viewport   0 0
                Depth     24
                Modes "1280x800" "1024x768" "1280x768" "1280x720" "1152x864"
        EndSubSection
EndSection

Section "dri"
        Mode 0666
EndSection

Section "Extensions"
        Option "Composite" "On"
EndSection

Section "ServerFlags"
        Option "AIGLX" "On"
EndSection


glxinfo | grep OpenGL
Code:
OpenGL vendor string: Mesa Project
OpenGL renderer string: Software Rasterizer
OpenGL version string: 2.1 Mesa 7.7-devel
OpenGL shading language version string: 1.20
OpenGL extensions:

cat /proc/modules | grep radeon
Code:
radeon 116088 0 - Live 0xf8429000
drm 68084 1 radeon, Live 0xf80ee000

Here's my xorg.conf
http://pastebin.com/m75cdd471


you are using software acceleration, if I'm not mistaken, the overlay ebuilds do not support the experimental 3d branch.
in order to get 3d hardware branch, you must use the ebuilds in this post
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wumpyr
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the x11 overlay x11-drm-99999999 doesn't work with 2.6.31.

Code:
CC [M]  /ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_sysfs.o                                                                                                             
/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_memory.c: In function 'agp_remap':                                                                                             
/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_memory.c:286: error: 'struct agp_memory' has no member named 'memory'                                                         
  CC [M]  /ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_pci.o                                                                                                               
make[2]: *** [/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_memory.o] Error 1                                                                                               
make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....                                                                                                                                                         
/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_proc.c: In function 'drm__vma_info':                                                                                           
/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_proc.c:589: warning: format '%08lx' expects type 'long unsigned int', but argument 5 has type 'phys_addr_t'                   
/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_vm.c: In function 'drm_do_vm_fault':                                                                                           
/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_vm.c:149: error: 'struct agp_memory' has no member named 'memory'                                                             
/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_vm.c:153: error: 'struct agp_memory' has no member named 'memory'                                                             
/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_vm.c: In function 'drm_vm_shm_close':                                                                                         
/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_vm.c:248: warning: enumeration value '_DRM_GEM' not handled in switch                                                         
make[2]: *** [/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core/drm_vm.o] Error 1                                                                                                   
make[1]: *** [_module_/ebuild/tmp/portage/x11-base/x11-drm-99999999/work/drm/linux-core] Error 2                                                                                                     
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/linux-2.6.31-gentoo'                                                                                                                                           
make: *** [modules] Error 2


is linux-core/x11-drm git even maintained?

is it safe to just use the 2.6.31 kernel drm? if not, why not? what's special about x11-drm git?

thanks
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Joseph K.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, from memory, the standard x11 overlay ebuild doesn't work, but if you modify it as described at the beginning of this thread, it will source from a repository that does work. The in-kernel drm works, but not for the purpose of this thread.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, so I patched the x11 overlay ebuilds and it now compiles. However still no luck, DRI is disabled. radeon and drm modules load fine but no workie. If I switch back to in kernel 2.6.31 drm DRI is fine.

what gives?

Code:
(II) RADEON(0): ATOM BIOS Rom:
        SubsystemVendorID: 0x1787 SubsystemID: 0x2281
        IOBaseAddress: 0xa000
        Filename: 96618BBD.QGH
        BIOS Bootup Message:
RV790 GDDR5 1024MB 96618BBD.QGH

(II) RADEON(0): Framebuffer space used by Firmware (kb): 20
(II) RADEON(0): Start of VRAM area used by Firmware: 0xfffec
(II) RADEON(0): AtomBIOS requests 20kB of VRAM scratch space
(II) RADEON(0): AtomBIOS VRAM scratch base: 0xfffec
(II) RADEON(0): Cannot get VRAM scratch space. Allocating in main memory instead
(II) RADEON(0): Default Engine Clock: 850000
(II) RADEON(0): Default Memory Clock: 975000
(II) RADEON(0): Maximum Pixel ClockPLL Frequency Output: 1200000
(II) RADEON(0): Minimum Pixel ClockPLL Frequency Output: 0
(II) RADEON(0): Maximum Pixel ClockPLL Frequency Input: 16000
(II) RADEON(0): Minimum Pixel ClockPLL Frequency Input: 6000
(II) RADEON(0): Maximum Pixel Clock: 400000
(II) RADEON(0): Reference Clock: 100000
drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device)
drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device)
drmOpenDevice: Open failed
drmOpenByBusid: Searching for BusID pci:0000:02:00.0
drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card0
drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device)
drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device)
drmOpenDevice: Open failed
drmOpenByBusid: drmOpenMinor returns -19
drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card1
drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device)
drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device)
drmOpenDevice: Open failed
drmOpenByBusid: drmOpenMinor returns -19
drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card2
drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device)
drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device)
drmOpenDevice: Open failed

[snip]

drmOpenDevice: node name is /dev/dri/card14
drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device)
drmOpenDevice: open result is -1, (No such device)
drmOpenDevice: Open failed
(EE) RADEON(0): [dri] RADEONDRIGetVersion failed to open the DRM
[dri] Disabling DRI.
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Joseph K.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To start with, what card do you have and what is the output of glxinfo|grep ": "?
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