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cokehabit
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 Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| How would the libertarians go about bringing themselves into the foray of major US politics? Could the republicans votes be split between the two parties? |
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | How would the libertarians go about bringing themselves into the foray of major US politics? Could the republicans votes be split between the two parties? |
The best way would be if the Republican Party were to nominate a libertarian as their candidate. That is extremely unlikely to happen, though, because certain constituencies would be alienated (like the anti-abortion people), unless the candidate in question was willing to make concessions on his (or her) platform.
Frankly, if they stick to their party's core issues, they are too far apart on certain issues for cooperation. That means the Libertarian Party could try to attract independents and moderate Republicans, but this would require an aggressive campaign of education and recruitment. Most Republicans and Democrats are only vaguely aware that other parties exist, and that's only because they see them on the ballots when they finally go to vote.
So another necessary step would be to overcome whatever obstacles are preventing Libertarian candidates from participating in the presidential debates. Unfortunately, that probably sacrificing substance for style, and finding a candidate who looks and sounds right, with the right people feeding the teleprompters. Dumb Americans vote for presidents like they vote for American Idol, half based on actual talent, and half based on charisma.
Finally, regardless of what the idealistic libertarian position might be, the Libertarian Party needs a platform centered on reasonable, mainstream proposals that move the country incrementally in the direction of liberty. People get scared by "radical" ideas like "no income tax", "withdraw all troops from everywhere", or "cut government spending by 50%" (although in this case, that last one would just be a return to normalcy).
Sometimes I think the Libertarian Party would do better as a lobby than as a political party, per se. Our system allows two giants to exist, and you're either in one of those two boats, or you're getting wet.
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NotQuiteSane
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Location: Klamath Falls, Jefferson, USA, North America, Midgarth
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| energyman76b wrote: | | you should change the laws. They they could nominate Arnold. |
I understand Arnold asked that the people working to do just that stop.
seems he actually respects the constitution
NQS
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| BoneKracker wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | How would the libertarians go about bringing themselves into the foray of major US politics? Could the republicans votes be split between the two parties? |
The best way would be if the Republican Party were to nominate a libertarian as their candidate. That is extremely unlikely to happen, though, because certain constituencies would be alienated (like the anti-abortion people), unless the candidate in question was willing to make concessions on his (or her) platform.
Frankly, if they stick to their party's core issues, they are too far apart on certain issues for cooperation. That means the Libertarian Party could try to attract independents and moderate Republicans, but this would require an aggressive campaign of education and recruitment. Most Republicans and Democrats are only vaguely aware that other parties exist, and that's only because they see them on the ballots when they finally go to vote.
So another necessary step would be to overcome whatever obstacles are preventing Libertarian candidates from participating in the presidential debates. Unfortunately, that probably sacrificing substance for style, and finding a candidate who looks and sounds right, with the right people feeding the teleprompters. Dumb Americans vote for presidents like they vote for American Idol, half based on actual talent, and half based on charisma.
Finally, regardless of what the idealistic libertarian position might be, the Libertarian Party needs a platform centered on reasonable, mainstream proposals that move the country incrementally in the direction of liberty. People get scared by "radical" ideas like "no income tax", "withdraw all troops from everywhere", or "cut government spending by 50%" (although in this case, that last one would just be a return to normalcy).
Sometimes I think the Libertarian Party would do better as a lobby than as a political party, per se. Our system allows two giants to exist, and you're either in one of those two boats, or you're getting wet. |
maybe the libertarians should do what the liberal democrats here did a while back after the conservatives were crushed, they rebranded themselves as
"The REAL alternative to Labour"
and massively increased their votes (not quite enough though) |
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jdmulloy
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Joined: 24 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | maybe the libertarians should do what the liberal democrats here did a while back after the conservatives were crushed, they rebranded themselves as
"The REAL alternative to Labour"
and massively increased their votes (not quite enough though) |
I believe that Obama's party is already providing an alternative to Labor. 
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| jdmulloy wrote: | | I believe that Obama's party is already providing an alternative to Labor. |
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d4mo
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| It doesn't matter who the GOP nominates in 2012 if obama's Cap and Prey goes through. If people stop acting like the ignorant sheep they are and vote for who they agree with and not who the media tell them to vote for. The GOP has a great chance in 2012, and everyone better hope we win. |
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drizek
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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lol. No, the GOP is fucked in 2012.
Also too, wtf is "cap and prey". Does this involve busting of caps?
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d4mo
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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I will some it up for you in a quote from obama himself:
"Under my plan of a cap and trade system electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Businesses would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that cost onto consumers." |
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pjp
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| Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| drizek wrote: | | lol. No, the GOP is fucked in 2012. |
The economy is all that matters.
As bad as the economy appears to be, I'm not convinced he can do anything about it in time. He'll have to do quite a bit otherwise for a plateau at the bottom to be palatable.
And we continue to hemorrhage.
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drizek
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:04 am Post subject: |
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It seems to me that hte economy is getting better. At least the 401k and the stock markets and that sort of thing are doing well. His stimulus plans are just starting to kick in, and I think things are going to be OK before too long.
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BoneKracker
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| drizek wrote: | | It seems to me that hte economy is getting better. At least the 401k and the stock markets and that sort of thing are doing well. His stimulus plans are just starting to kick in, and I think things are going to be OK before too long. |
The stock market is behaviorally-influenced (fickle and prone to speculative ups and downs in response to sound-bites). If you want a reliable indicator, watch unemployment rates. In short, it's not getting better yet; it's getting worse more slowly, and this has triggered a few sparks of optimism here and there.
For Obama to actually use the economy to his advantage, recovery needs to still be fairly recent news when the election rolls around. I think that will be the case. I think unemployment will continue to increase for another six months at least, and probably bottom out some time in 2010. People won't be universally in agreement that the economy is on the rebound until 2011, which is perfect timing. Most of the excess unemployed will be back to work in 2012, and the Democratic PR engine will paint him as the Nation's economic savior. That alone will get hiim re-elected, over the cacophony of bitching about "broken promises" by little special interests and causes. When the economy is good, the zeitgeist is positive, and people hang on to the status quo.
The only thing that can prevent him from being re-elected is if the economy does not recover quickly enough. If unemployment still remains at like, 7% or higher by 2012, then it will be hard for him to get re-elected. I think this scenario is very unlikely.
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pjp
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| Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| drizek wrote: | | It seems to me that hte economy is getting better. At least the 401k and the stock markets and that sort of thing are doing well. His stimulus plans are just starting to kick in, and I think things are going to be OK before too long. |
I'm thinking of the bigger picture. The World Leaders deciding the US Dollar Standard must go at the Worst Possible Time and countries like Japan apparently trying to dump bonds.
I'm certainly no expert, but unless we start recovering quickly, there's a good chance we're screwed. Can Obama bow to and kiss enough rings of leaders to stave off the change in Currency Standard? What is in it for the other countries if he can? _THIS_ is what bin Laden wanted to achieve, though I'm sure he never thought it would have happened (he was surprised the towers fell).
With the treasonous amount of debt we hold now, is there any way to recover? Has any country recovered from the same amount of debt? If inflation skyrockets, what does that due to the economy, value of the dollar, etc.?
Of course, with all that going down, the populace may decide "experience & continuity" is the best thing to keep in Office.
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