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audiodef
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject: Kdeprefix for KDE 4.2: yes or no? Reply with quote

What do you think of using the kdeprefix use flag in KDE 4.2? I saw a post-emerge message discouraging it. What is it? What does it do? Why is it discouraged?

Edit by nixnut: Answer here
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It allows you to have multiple slotted versions of KDE4 installed on the same system, so e.g. you could use 4.2.1 and 4.2.4 independently of each other by choosing which one you log into from kdm.

I don't really see the need for this facility here, so don't bother with it.
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I understand it, kdeprefix allows for creating separate directories in /usr/kde for each kde version you have installed (good with overlays), so as to keep them isolated from each other. I don't know why it's use would be discouraged- it works fine for me with kde-svn. I suppose if you only install one version you don't need it.
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool. Thanks for the info!
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh - I have it turned on. I don't think I need it. If I turn off the use flag and emerge -uDN world, will things get jumbled around? Or will, as I would do it if I were a dev, portage just get rid of all but the latest verison of KDE 4?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

audiodef wrote:
Oh - I have it turned on. I don't think I need it. If I turn off the use flag and emerge -uDN world, will things get jumbled around? Or will, as I would do it if I were a dev, portage just get rid of all but the latest verison of KDE 4?


Pretty much, yes. Although it'll want to re-emerge the latest version to change where it's installed to. And .kde4 in your home directory would maybe have to be created (i.e. copied from .kde423 or whatever it's called - I'm not sure on the naming convention, as when I upgraded to kde 4 I had the USE flag disabled after reading up on it and deciding I wouldn't be needing that feature). And any earlier versions would be removed by depclean-ing. Remember to use -pv first to check for sanity!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey,

according to this:

Quote:
If kdeprefix is enabled then KDE is installed into /usr/kde/${SLOT}, which allows you to install KDE 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, etc. in /usr/kde/4.1, /usr/kde/4.2, and /usr/kde/4.3 for example.
Warning: If you want to move between kdeprefix and -kdeprefix (or vice-versa), it is recommended that you unmerge all KDE packages and then emerge it with the modified flag. If this is not done, KDE installations can have trouble finding certain libraries/plugins.

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audiodef
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh. I'm not up to unmerging then re-emerging the whole shebang, so I'm just gonna leave it for now. I'm currently not worried about disc space.

Thanks for all the advice!
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just remember about it and wait for the next point upgrade, (there might not be one before 4.3 which is due at the end of July), then change the USE flag.

You could probably uninstall the older versions of stuff at the moment though.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I decided to try and switch away from kdeprefix, but I ended up with the same problem I had when I first jumped from kde 3.5 to kde 4.1.
KWin crashes instantly after boot. Had to switch back to using kdeprefix again.

I have no idea why.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On today's ~x86 world update, they just had a kdelibs-4.2.4, among two or three others, so I guess there will be a complete 4.2.4 version before Gentoo gets a final 4.3.0 ready, even for the ~x86 users. Seeing as how kde-4.3.0 is due in late July (last i checked), Gentoo will probably be in August- they usually are a few weeks later than other distros like OpenSuse, Mandriva, etc.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi.

agent_jdh wrote:
It allows you to have multiple slotted versions of KDE4 installed on the same system, so e.g. you could use 4.2.1 and 4.2.4 independently of each other by choosing which one you log into from kdm.
I don't really see the need for this facility here, so don't bother with it.


As ffpp quoted, +kdeprefix allows more than "one slot" around - so you can have 4.2 and 4.3, but not 4.2.1 and 4.2.4 (same slot).

The official KDE team reply is that you should not use +kdeprefix unless you're really sure you know what you're doing and are ready to pick up the pieces for yourself if you get into trouble.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And to be more precise - mixing -kdeprefix and kdeprefix is completely not supported - as installation in /usr (-kdeprefix) will partially shadow the one from /usr/kde/<slot> (kdeprefix) because it's the way LDPATH is ordered in env.d - causing KDE from kdeprefix to work in *very* unreliable manner or not work at all.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But, basically, if I'm upgrading from KDE 4.2.3 to KDE 4.2.4, I can simply change the USE flag, emerge -u @world and revdep-rebuild, right?

I've been using +kdeprefix since the beginning. It saved me a lot of headaches in the early days. Now that it's officially discouraged, I might want to go back to -kdeprefix, but I'll only do it if it's not ridiculously difficult, as I haven't had any problems with +kdeprefix.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pingufunkybeat wrote:
But, basically, if I'm upgrading from KDE 4.2.3 to KDE 4.2.4, I can simply change the USE flag, emerge -u @world and revdep-rebuild, right?

That's what I did last night on two of my systems and, thus far, haven't seen any problems. Note that I did need to change /etc/conf.d/xdm to specify "kdm" as the display manager rather than "kde-4.2". Also, my kde config information has moved from "~/.kde4.2" to "~/.kde4". I don't know if one can just copy the config info from the old to the new for all applications. It seems to have worked for me for kmail.

I did not do any unmerges before doing the update.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pingufunkybeat wrote:
But, basically, if I'm upgrading from KDE 4.2.3 to KDE 4.2.4, I can simply change the USE flag, emerge -u @world and revdep-rebuild, right?

I've been using +kdeprefix since the beginning. It saved me a lot of headaches in the early days. Now that it's officially discouraged, I might want to go back to -kdeprefix, but I'll only do it if it's not ridiculously difficult, as I haven't had any problems with +kdeprefix.


Placing -kdeprefix in make.conf and emerge -vaDuN world is sufficient - even revdep-rebuild should not be required (at least with portage-2.2_rc - as it tracks unmerged dependencies in @preserved-rebuild set.

About ~/.kde4.2 and ~/.kde4 - you can just one to another (or the other way around) - you'll just need to fix some Favorites in kickoff.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you should also remember is that not all KDE3 packages are yet ported to KDE4 in portage (like k3b, you need the kde-testing overlay for it), then you WILL need kdeprefix since you have kde 3.5 and kde 4.2 libs and apps installed in /usr/kde/xxx

If you however have removed all kde 3.5 apps and dependencies then there is really no need for kdeprefix.
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audiodef
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you really need +kdeprefix to run k3b in KDE 4?

My_World wrote:
What you should also remember is that not all KDE3 packages are yet ported to KDE4 in portage (like k3b, you need the kde-testing overlay for it), then you WILL need kdeprefix since you have kde 3.5 and kde 4.2 libs and apps installed in /usr/kde/xxx

If you however have removed all kde 3.5 apps and dependencies then there is really no need for kdeprefix.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think so, especially if you use the older K3B that require KDE3.5 (and not the kde-testing overlay K3B), otherwise the KDE3.5 libs will be thrown into the same path as the KDE4 libs in /use/kde instead of /user/kde/3.5, etc.

Now that is something we would not want. But fear not, grab the K3B ebuild from the kde-testing overlay and digest it. Do this with all the apps that you could need for KDE4 that is not yet in standard portage and then you should be sorted.

I'm still sticking with kdeprefix since there are a few apps that I need that still has KDE3.5 as dependency, so for me it is a must to stick to kdeprefix.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My_World wrote:
I would think so, especially if you use the older K3B that require KDE3.5 (and not the kde-testing overlay K3B), otherwise the KDE3.5 libs will be thrown into the same path as the KDE4 libs in /use/kde instead of /user/kde/3.5, etc.


Bullshit

My_World wrote:

I'm still sticking with kdeprefix since there are a few apps that I need that still has KDE3.5 as dependency, so for me it is a must to stick to kdeprefix.


Please stop misinforming.

All KDE3 apps in tree have been revbumped and they're now installed in /usr/kde/3.5/ (yes, the same prefix as KDE3)
You don't need +kdeprefix to have KDE3 and KDE4 installed - it will work just fine with KDE4 in /usr.
However - installing multiple KDE4's - one with kdeprefix and one without is known to cause runtime linker-related problems.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@reavertm,
So, the bottom line is if you are running kde-svn with other overlay versions you still need +kdeprefix, but if you only run portage versions they do fine as multiple slotted installs without kdeprefix? And, if you only run kde-svn and no other overlay versions, you really don't need kdeprefix anymore?

Is this a correct summary, or am I missing something?

Are there any serious consequences/downsides for staying with kdeprefix? Everything on both my main "kde-3.5.10 only" partition, and my two other kde-svn Gentoo partitions (one 32bit and the other pure 64bit) are currently working fine with kdeprefix. Thus, I'm sort of relunctant to abandon kdeprefix at the moment.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Are there any serious consequences/downsides for staying with kdeprefix?

I seem to recall some warning message about kittens being in danger, so if you don't have cats, you may be all right.

kdeprefix doesn't affect kde3.5.10. I turned it off and still have both 3.5.10 and 4.2.4:
Code:
fino portage # eix kdebase-meta
[I] kde-base/kdebase-meta
     Available versions:
        (3.5)   3.5.9 3.5.10
        (4.2)   (~)4.2.3 (~)4.2.4
        {kdeprefix semantic-desktop}
     Installed versions:  3.5.10(3.5)(05:25:59 01/29/09) 4.2.4(4.2)(04:49:44 06/06/09)(-kdeprefix -semantic-desktop)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrc1944 wrote:
@reavertm,
So, the bottom line is if you are running kde-svn with other overlay versions you still need +kdeprefix, but if you only run portage versions they do fine as multiple slotted installs without kdeprefix? And, if you only run kde-svn and no other overlay versions, you really don't need kdeprefix anymore?

Is this a correct summary, or am I missing something?


There's nothing really to memorize, packages are set up this way, so that it's impossible to install conflicting versions at the same time (otherwise you'll get blocks) - and kdeprefix is only to be able to use multiple KDE4 installations as KDE3 is already being installed in separate prefix (/usr/kde/3.5, so it has +kdeprefix implicitly hardcoded)

About having one KDE4 in -kdeprefix or having one KDE4 in +kdeprefix - currently - as we solved some issues - there's not much difference really - apart from one - +kdeprefix KDE4 application menu entries may not work in KDE3 session (still they will run from command line - just cd /usr/kde/<slot>/bin, and run kde4 app from there) - this is being worked on.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, has the kdeprefix USE flag been snuffed out? I just went to update my server/HTPC, and everything KDE-4.2.4 is slated for rebuilding with "-kdeprefix." Just want to make sure this is the expected behavior.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gcasillo wrote:
So, has the kdeprefix USE flag been snuffed out? I just went to update my server/HTPC, and everything KDE-4.2.4 is slated for rebuilding with "-kdeprefix." Just want to make sure this is the expected behavior.


Nope, kdeprefix is still there if you want to use it, I'm guessing the default has been changed to -kdeprefix (presumably before kde4 is unleashed to non ~arch users).
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