I grew up in Windows and, well, HELP!!!

[PET240]

G'day all,

Unfortunately I grew up in Windows and I know very little, actually it's closer to nothing as to what you all talk about, I have an old ACER Aspire Laptop that has an Pentium 4, 1.7 GHz processor and 256MB of SDRAM and from what I've read elsewhere this should be more than enough for a Linux based OS, the question is where do i start? are drivers for things like USB, CD/DVD players etc available? I want to run a Blue Ray in a HTPC, do these work with Linux? What about Graphics cards? I want to put together a fairly proper HTPC which is how I got started on this road!! So then if I buy a graphics card,say a 9600GT or something, will the drivers work on Linux? Obviously there will be a custom build of the PC and I would need help with that, I've virtually decided on a Silverstone CW-02 case but from there I'm a little stuck, I'm no computer genius, but I want it to work reliably. I don't know and I cant tell if Gentoo is the full OS or do I need to then find a Linux OS to operate it in? I like the look of Entertainer as my Media centre GUI, but then I have no idea how to load Linux onto a new hard drive,which is why the Acer is now spare in the first place!
Tried to look at the hand book but I have no idea which one I need as all the x-86 etc mean nothing to me, so when I say help, please help. And the more help the merrier!!!!
This is about starting from scratch for me, so please be kind, I'm not stupid, but I do need help. Don't want to spend months trying to figure it out when one or all of you have been where I have been, at the beginning of something new.

Look forward to movin on from Windows!!!

Thanks for your time.
_________________
All I've ever known is Window's. Help!!!
But the fog is slowly clearing!!

[PET240]

I want to do the learning on the Acer as I don't want to and can't afford to crash my Desktop through something I do wrong, it has all my business stuff on it.
Hence the question about the the new Hard drive!!

Thanks Again!!!!
_________________
All I've ever known is Window's. Help!!!
But the fog is slowly clearing!!

[notHerbert]

You can look here http://gentoo-wiki.com/HARDWARE_Acer_Aspire_5024
and here http://gentoo-wiki.com/HARDWARE_Acer_Aspire_5102WLMi
and here http://www.linux.org/hardware/

and here http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml

[PET240]

Hey thanks for those notHerbert,
where exactly do I type in these commands? Does it come up automatically or is it something i need to find? Do I need to put windows on the pc or is gentoo all I need? Just looking at the Acer install, there was a windows partition as well, on the HTPC I want to avoid windows and just play with Linux to see how I like it.
Have yet to read through a bit of the install manual, can I use Xfce on the Gentoo base? Although it is all Linux, it is all so very confusing having so many options!!!! Not knowing what the other will run is a bit of a headbender for me!

Appreciate your help, please advise anything else you can, even a site that goes through the basics so I can understand a bit more would be fantastic, been hunting for a fortnight and still feel like I know nothing!!!

Thanks Again!
_________________
All I've ever known is Window's. Help!!!
But the fog is slowly clearing!!

[albright]

[PET240]

I'm sorry if I appear simple, have not had much computer exp and I have no idea what most of the anagrams gettin tossed around are. Programming exp is related to PLC's and Ladder diagrams, so what is happening here is totally new, want to learn but need help to get started i guess, readin the readme file on Gentoo after I burnt it to disk had me dazed and confused, no drugs involved, I've done as much reading as I can handle for the minute and I really want to use Linux for my HTPC. surely you all had to start somewhere? No need to make fun of me..........
_________________
All I've ever known is Window's. Help!!!
But the fog is slowly clearing!!

[nativemad]

Sorry, but if you don't know anything about linux in general, than maybe gentoo is the wrong distro for you to start with.

But shure, we all started somewhere...
http://www.linux.org/lessons/beginner/index.html

Cheers and good luck!
_________________
Power to the people!

[PET240]

Ahh,now where was that for the last many weeks!!!

Thank you muchly,

A learning I will go, hi ho, bye ho

Now to see if I can download them suckers and do em while I'm in the middle of nowhere apparently working!!!

Thanks again!
_________________
All I've ever known is Window's. Help!!!
But the fog is slowly clearing!!

[pappy_mcfae]

Firstly, welcome to Gentoo (if you stayed, that is). If you have any experience in the digital realm, this should be a cakewalk. The fact that you programmed PLC's let's me know you have a basic understanding of digital concepts.

That you're experimenting on an older machine is good. You know more than many who try to setup Linux on a mission critical system. Chalk up one for you.

Secondly, you are literate, which is also a good thing. If you can read, and you can type, you can install Gentoo. Chalk up another one for you.

Third, you were smart enough to do some research beforehand. Once again, put up a mark to the good.

I will not insult your intelligence. All I will suggest is that there are numerous systemic similarities between what you know how to do, and what you're trying to learn. It is up to you to see those similarities and work within them.

For instance, I have only had one class in my lifetime that related directly to digital theory. However, I have a degree in electronic engineering technology, and have a lifelong obsession with electronic goodies. I got my first PC style computer because the main cap on the power supply board literally blew up, and scorched a hole in the PC board. I had to completely redo that part of the board before the machine even ran.

I used the knowledge I had, and just bent it in a different way. I started working with computers professionally, and fortunately found having a really arrogant co-worker is a great way to learn all there is to know about the PC, if you have enough dazzle in you to pull the info out you want. When he started asking ME questions, I knew I was headed in the right direction.

I taught myself how to install Linux in 93, then gave it up because I stupidly listened to some "professional" who told me it was dumb to learn Linux as it would never turn into a money maker. Yep, he was wrong, and I stupidly listened. I allowed that limitation into my reality, and it cut me off from years of knowledge I failed to gain.

So, long story short, if you want to do it, you can. You have more on hand than I did when I taught myself how to insall Linux. Don't let your minimal knowledge of the PC hold you back. After all, if you blow the system sky high, what are you out? Time? Educationally speaking, that's no great loss.

Finally, what's the worst that could happen? You temporarily disable a machine that's effectively already written off? That's a small price to pay for the education that could bridge the synapses that you already have with new ones sure to come from working with Gentoo. That could take you to a place of understanding beyond that of anyone here. Sounds like a pretty good return on investment to me.

Blessed be!
Pappy
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[PET240]

Hey Pappy,

Thanks for that, found to just give it a go helps and havin a second monitor with the handbook in front of you is a great help. got to the partitioning section and it didn't want to work properly, got the primary sda to work, just so you know I have just installed Win XP on the PC as it will be my back-up PC cause I'm heading out into the bush, have since figured I can take the OS disc's with me and re-install them, though after reading on Linux.org-lessons, I can run the two OS'. But I figure I can load XP if I need to. the error i was getting was about the size of partition was it outside limitations, though I was following sizes in the handbook, I figured this is cause of the windows taking up sda1 when i gave the p command. So now I gotta figure out how to format the HD and reload Gentoo, have copied the handbook to a word doc and can run it on my Dell so I have that in front of me, odd that it cant be downloaded as a pdf, figure there's alot of work to do that.
Though i'm confused as the Linux Lesson(based on Debian) was talking bout havin partitions for home, usr, and someother stuff, I didn't notice this on the handbook, is this neccessary or is it just Debian?
I'm gonna finish formatting the Drive(yes I missed doing it, told I didn't know much!) and try to install it on it's own partition, I'm then hopefully gonna have a win.

Glad i did the reading at LInux.org though, but I can now see albright's position of me joshin you, but I figure I'll have other stupid questions to come!!!

Thanks for the confidence boost pappy, guess you'll be hearing from me if it don't work this way!!!!

Cheers!
_________________
All I've ever known is Window's. Help!!!
But the fog is slowly clearing!!

[notHerbert]

There is a partitioning thread at the top of the page - Sticky: https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-420242.html

You don't need to figure out how to format the drive, - it is all well explained in the handbook.

Do a little homework every day (that means read stuff) and you'll be fine.

[PET240]

Ok I do have reading to do,

Question; after reading the forum you pointed me too, I found 2 things, 1. the examole is much the same as I want to do, have Linux and XP on the same pc, so I have partions set in this way, 20Gb for XP, 20Gb for Linux(L: drive), and the remainder 110Gb is for whatever, i.e. media files etc. How do I specify I want Linux to be loaded onto the L partition? I'm going to Mt Isa and will be without internet for 3 wks so the more info the merrier!!! I don't like just asking questions that have in likely hood been answered several(hundred?) times before.

Really appreciate the help, makin my life alot easier.

Thanks Muchly!!
_________________
All I've ever known is Window's. Help!!!
But the fog is slowly clearing!!

[notHerbert]

Hmmm. I don't know if you can install GNU/Linux on a windows partition. I don't believe that the Linux kernel can run that way.

Normally, as explained in the handbook, seperate partitions are created for GNU/Linux, then they are formatted, then mounted, then ..... and et cetera.

[PET240]

Ok I see where you are comin from, I read on the Linux.org about running a Dual OS, so since I have formatted the drive in windows your thoughts are that I cant install Linux on it, I figured that linux would prepare the drive as per its requirements, just had to figure out how to get it to "stick" to the partition I wanted it to go to. Interesting point then,though he linux course was saying in order to do it you had to put the linux boot in sda1, however I have already gone through the drama of setting up XP, earlier I thought to just format the whole 160Gb drive and just install linux, this may still be the best option.

Will keep reading on those links you sent earlier, though not sure why when I was partitioning last night it was sayin the handbook sizes were outside limitations, could this just be that the drive wasn't formatted, or do you think it was just the XP install in front of it?

This is slowly makin more sense, though Linux has more setup questions and so on, it does pay off for reliability and customisation etc yes!!!!

Thanks again,
_________________
All I've ever known is Window's. Help!!!
But the fog is slowly clearing!!

[PET240]

Next question, the boot section has to be on a primary partition correct? Can I then make the swap and usr sda's an extention I think the term is partition? So when i type the p command it will bring up all existing partions,(3) if my fourth is the boot, perhaps I should delete the patitions setup this morn in with the d command and then start again keeping the root to say 40Gb which allows plenty of space, and in windows i can create a partition with the remainder for that?

Thoughts?

Just if I get this workin I don't wnat to have to delete it reload windows as this is my backup pc fpr this job.


Cheers,
_________________
All I've ever known is Window's. Help!!!
But the fog is slowly clearing!!

[notHerbert]

When you boot the Gentoo installation CD run

[sundialsvc4]

I will flatly advise you not to attempt to install Windows and Linux on the same machine.

Yes, "dual booting" can be done ... but it is a royal pain in the ass.

Hardware is damm-cheap these days. "You can afford to buy two." In the case of a desktop machine, a second hard disk drive.

[pappy_mcfae]

I beg to differ. Two out of three machines I own dual boot, and it wasn't the nail-pulling misadventure you paint. I had systems that triple booted slackware (old version) OS/2 Warp, and DOS/Win-3.11 in the days when the VESA local bus was king.

Actually, setting up dual boot is easy as long as you know the rules: Rule1, Windoze wants top billing on the hard drive. It must be installed first. Using the Windoze disk, I make the first partition 500 megs, the second one, about seventy percent of the drive's capacity as NTFS.

After Windoze installs, I set a gig or so for swap, and the rest of the space as Linux. Install Linux, and lilo, because dual booting isn't as cryptic as it is under grub.

That's it. You have the best of both worlds.

If you eventually get like me, you only fire up Windoze for certain things. Everything else is done in Gentoo land.

Blessed be!
Pappy
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[PET240]

Question,
how would one load Lilo instead of grub. mind you I haven't read what grub is yet, have seen the term, so thats something!!!!

Pappy, could you possibly send some info about how you do that?

not herbert,

s
Sorry I haven't got back to you, been flat out and just got back from watching Wall.e with my wife abd I guarantee she's prettier than you!!

Get back to you soon!!!!

Thank you Gents, appreciate the help, will go looking for lilo though!!
_________________
All I've ever known is Window's. Help!!!
But the fog is slowly clearing!!

[notHerbert]

[monsm]

I would think most people use Grub instead of Lilo these days. Not sure about Lilo, but Grub is reasonably easy to use on a dual boot machine.

Also, what sort of harddrive do you use. A single harddrive (and not 2 or more harddrives running in raid formation) is easier.

My dual boot partitions are something like this:
1 WinXP - NTFS
2 Gentoo - root (/) and boot
3 Linux Swap
4 Common partition - NTFS

If you have a separate boot partition, that is probably good. It is many ways of getting this to work. Actually I set up the partitions in Windows. Fdisk in windows and Linux do more or less the same thing. Linux of course will require you to reformat the boot and root partition to e.g. ext3 from ntfs or whatever was on it before.

You'll have a learning curve to get over, but keep reading that handbook and other forums and wikis and you'll get through it.

Mons

[nativemad]

I would also recommend grub...
Grub is a bootloader. It consist of two parts. The Files in the boot-partition (or directory) and the boot-code itself in the master-boot-record (mbr) of the disk.
After the Windows-install, the win-bootloader is in the mbr and has to be replaced with grub, where you can simply make boot-menu with entries for win and linux.

Probably cfdisk could be easier to start with than plain fdisk!
Just leave the windows-partition as it is.
You mentioned the L drive is where you want to install linux. But normally, windows doesn't see (or doesn't give driveletters) to linux-partitions....
So take cfdisk /dev/sda, leave the first partition as it is and delete the rest.
make a new partition behind it for boot, one for swap and one for the root. (you could also leave the boot away and just stick with one partition besides swap... As the linux.org guide tells, you could have several more partitions)
If you want to have the rest of the disk accessible on both systems, then you should make another part with the type "b0" (Fat32, hopefully i remember exactly).
To format that fat32 part, just emerge dosfstools and after that type in "mkfs.vfat -F 32 /dev/sdaX" (X for the part-nr.).

I'm sorry, if my first post here was a bit harsh or something... But i just wanted to point out that there are plenty of other distros who don't need a handbook to get it installed and it would probably be easier/faster/less pita for you, if you would just try one of those!
But if you're really willing to read quite a lot and you have the time to do so, then gentoo can offer you so much others simply cant.

Someone once wrote a so true statement:
Very difficult stuff is quite easy to do with gentoo, but the easiest things can get so complicated!

Welcome to gentoo!
_________________
Power to the people!

[pappy_mcfae]

Lilo was booting kernels before grub was even an egg. For those of us who don't need the comfort of having our computer lie during boot time, pretending it's a Microsoft abortion (showing off pretty splash screens instead of standard boot messages), lilo is far superior to grub. It's simpler, its configuration file is simpler, and it's time tested and true!

I have never had real trouble with lilo. I even have it working with my amd64, and according to popular legend, that isn't supposed to be doable. AND considering how much trouble grub causes, lilo remains my all out favorite.

So yes, I use lilo, and I think that grub stinks in stereo. Therein lies the beauty of Linux. I'm not tied to what others think is best for my computer. I'm allowed to make that decision for myself.

Blessed be!
Pappy
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[nativemad]

And sendmail has sent mails before postfix/exim/qmail. Is it better than those?
I don't want to start a war here, but i personally don't like it to write the mbr everytime i change the config!

However, its just the bootloader... and who reboots a linuxbox that often, that it would really matter...
_________________
Power to the people!

[PET240]

Hey Gents,

Slowly makin more sense, nativemad don't stress, I prefer honesty to bum kissin, though it may be harder, I'll learn more, faster and hopefully not have to hassle you all too often!

Current Config is;
160Gb single HDD
1.7 GHz cpu P4
256 Mb RAM,
battery no longer workin,
ATI Mobility M6 Graphics, which Linux sees when doing it's hardware search.

HDD currently partitioned in the following matter;
20 Gb for windows,
20Gb for Linux, whigh has been formatted through windows
remaining 110Gb formatted through windows intended for both OS's,

So I have to..........delete the second two partitions, install Gentoo in its own partition created in fdisk or the like, Figure I make Linux 60Gb so I can run NTFS on the remainder, I've been told that it runs faster and FAT32 has size limitations etc, which I can do through windows after the Linux install. Does this sound right? I think so, So I'm gonna take a shot at it, though I've had a quick look through the handbook, which i've had to cut and paste so I can take it with me, so I'll have to look deeper for both Lilo, bootloader operation/configuration and dual booting, I take it Linux doesn't take as long to boot as it does windows once it is installed on the HDD correct? Just with me playing it is gonna get turned off and on alot, hence the dead battery comment!!!

Also, does anyone know if I use this for a HTPC, whether Linux can be configured to start the PC, record something and shutdown again? Still going through Hardware that is factory supported for Linux, figure less chance for bugs, forgive me if this is a dumb question, but what do you guys use for Anti-virus? Figure if you get email off windows clients there is a risk of getting one, so what do you do?

Also in the HTPC, I want to run Raid 5 with 6 by 1 Tb disks in array so I'll have 5 Tb storage and complete back up of movies etc, I figure Linux will handle that? Prob have a desktop around on windows so I can remote into it if I need windows, but I can't foresee the need, can do the net etc off Linux so really that'll do. want to have Linux as the only OS on the HTPC. That is well after I get it running on the old Acer and probably played for a couple of months,

Course i've gotta get it loaded first, but I'll get there in the end!!!

Thanks for advice fella's, nativemad, will get back to you on the fdisk thing when i get there!!!!
_________________
All I've ever known is Window's. Help!!!
But the fog is slowly clearing!!