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kernelOfTruth
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@neuron:

if most of your problems are caused by LUKS or device-mapper related stuff

>=2.6.29-rc5 should make it somewhat better, since 2.6.29-rc4 an interesting patch got included:

dm: support barriers on simple devices
Implement barrier support for single device DM devices

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DigitalCorpus wrote:
Accessing just source code or mostly source code? If you have a HDD partitioned for special purposes to help with performance and have just your source code on one I'd suggest backing it up and reformatting with the following additional options
Code:
fibration=dot_o_fibre,cluster=8K
This will organize the files better for compiling purposes and allow finer grained access to chunks/clusters of files which should help out a bit on performance


Hm, it is mostly configuration files and source code in my home directory, I store all multimedia files elsewhere, whats the default cluster size? And if it's auto calculated, is there any way of finding out? Reducing it seems like a very obvius way of decreasing latency problems, but if the default is 4k I might hold back on it :P


DigitalCorpus wrote:
neuron wrote:
I'm using device mapper encryption however, could be they dont mix all that well. I realized ext4+luks seems to have way less latency issues than r4+luks does on my system. With ext4 I can barely notice, with r4 my mouse occasionally stops moving.

Note that these are drives on the same system, but different partitions, so the results are not directly comparable.

Read a couple posts up. kernelOfTruth notes that r4+luks don't mix well. I don't have experience with that so I cannot comment on performance or stability. It would be reason to assume that adding additional encryption, especially software based will hurt performance a lot. I will add two more cents to say that from experience, if you have a crash on a Reiser4 + cryptcompress system, any files in that FS that are being accessed will be orphaned. If they are crucial files for boot or what have you, then hope you have a backup because it is painful to try and sort through them. Adding excryption on top of that could cause some more serious problems.


I dont see a technical reason why using r4 on dm should be any different than any other filesystem, especially stability wise. I'm on 2.6.29-rc5, so I have barrier support etc on the underlaying device, and monitoring cpu usage while writing/reading I'm not maxing any of the cpu's out.


I'm very seriously considering dropping encryption on the volume, and symlinking specific files to an encrypted directory instead, I dont need most of that gpl code encrypted anyway ;)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kernelOfTruth wrote:
@neuron:

if most of your problems are caused by LUKS or device-mapper related stuff

>=2.6.29-rc5 should make it somewhat better, since 2.6.29-rc4 an interesting patch got included:

dm: support barriers on simple devices
Implement barrier support for single device DM devices


It occurred to me I haven't really run any tests since switching to that kernel, I'll do some work and see if I still have problems.

Still interested in ways to improve things ofc ;)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do have more question, try them over here: http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-707465.html
That way we can help you tweak/tune Reiser4 for your needs.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is more some kind of general information about Reiser4 and not limited to Gentoo but it sure gives a nice read about its internals:

Trees in the Reiser4 Filesystem, Part I
Reiser4, Part II: Designing Trees that Cache Well

it's a shame that reiser4 every now and then is being tried to be "killed" (no pun intended) just because of some personal hard feelings against Hans

did the filesystem do anything wrong ? :?

if you've read through all reiser4 documentation and compared it to the other filesystems of its time you'll recognize that it is/was sure ahead of its time including

lots of nicely thought out ideas which make it pretty efficient in several areas ...

I nevertheless hope that it makes it into mainline since it's still the most data-safe, space-efficient, harddrive-friendly filesystem for me (and surely will be for some time)
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont Panic wrote:
kernelOfTruth wrote:
someone should really create a wiki where we can write down all of the important tid bits

Gentoo Forums...FTW!


yeah, fgo FTW

but as long as it can't be crawled by search engines (anymore) it doesn't help the other gentoo or reiser4 users out there who don't know about this forum :?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:02 pm    Post subject: Kernel BUG with zen 2.6.29-rc2 Reply with quote

I've put R4 under some load with μTorrent and I've got lots of nasty looking messages in log. I will try 2.6.29_rc5-r1 asap, yet it may take some time before I could reboot this machine. I remember that I had better experience with R4 in similar conditions before.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disk full?
What does fsck.reiser4(1.0.7) say?
Reproducible?
Can you please report your findings to reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, Edward is interested in what might be causing this?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dusanc wrote:
Disk full?
What does fsck.reiser4(1.0.7) say?
Reproducible?
Can you please report your findings to reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, Edward is interested in what might be causing this?


++

but it also might be some bug triggered by wine and/or uTorrent

how was the memory or swap status at that time ?

still enough memory and swap available ?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kernelOfTruth wrote:
dusanc wrote:
Disk full?
What does fsck.reiser4(1.0.7) say?
Reproducible?
Can you please report your findings to reiserfs-devel@vger.kernel.org, Edward is interested in what might be causing this?

but it also might be some bug triggered by wine and/or uTorrent
how was the memory or swap status at that time ?
still enough memory and swap available ?

I'm sure there was cca ½ TB free disk space on given Reiser4 partition. Also RAM shouldn't be the problem here. Last time I checked (and these symptoms were already present), compcache was like 10 % full.
Since I can't fsck this partition remotely I'll post results during weekend.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why would you use Reiser4 on a partition for torrenting? Yeah there are a lot of small reads and writes, but even if you have a connection like 30 Mbps, you shouldn't be seeing any performance increase. Plus R4 is great because of packing clusters with small files. Torrenting is usually fll of large (100MiB+) files and that is a known weak spot with R4. :?: :?:
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is output of fsck. Going to --build-fs now.
DigitalCorpus wrote:
Why would you use Reiser4 on a partition for torrenting? Yeah there are a lot of small reads and writes, but even if you have a connection like 30 Mbps, you shouldn't be seeing any performance increase. Plus R4 is great because of packing clusters with small files. Torrenting is usually fll of large (100MiB+) files and that is a known weak spot with R4. :?: :?:
I don't do any ubergeek tuning of R4 to achieve negligible performance gain nor do I have separate partition/drive for any specific purpose. I'd like to have R4 as general purpose FS. Yes, during years there were crashes, especially problem with loop files costed me few days, but I developed some relation :). After listening to grinding HDs with eg ext3 it was love at first hear.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Tao wrote:
After listening to grinding HDs with eg ext3 it was love at first hear.


I feel you :)

for me it was the experiences with (especially) XFS and ext3
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here is output of fsck.reiser4 --build-fs.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DigitalCorpus wrote:
Why would you use Reiser4 on a partition for torrenting? Yeah there are a lot of small reads and writes, but even if you have a connection like 30 Mbps, you shouldn't be seeing any performance increase. Plus R4 is great because of packing clusters with small files. Torrenting is usually fll of large (100MiB+) files and that is a known weak spot with R4. :?: :?:


Torrenting should be fine with compressed reiser4 partition.

if an application (like torrent) does expanded truncate of a
newly created file, then most likely that this file will be filled
by binary incompressible data, so FILE-level plugin dispatcher
passes management to the unix-file plugin forever, i.e. large
torrent files will be organized by extents (not by fragments)
and compression won't be involved.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Tao wrote:
And here is output of fsck.reiser4 --build-fs.


Please, send all bugreports and related stuff to the reiserfs-devel
mailing list in the future. Let's keep it in one place..

Thanks.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Tao wrote:
Nice summary. I just would like to add that after experimenting with loop files on R4 a lot (different kernels and machines) I wouldn't recommend this for serious use (like portage or ccache). It always led to problems, sometimes fatal, at least for me. Typical symptoms are long syncs (in order of tenths of minutes) ocassionaly ending with on-loop fs corruption as fatal that it couldn't be recovered by fsck. Since I gave up and use separate partitions for used-to-be-in-loop-file content I'm very satisfied with Reiser4 :)


Loopback functionality over compressed files is fixed in the latest
stuff by this patch:
http://userweb.kernel.org/~akpm/mmotm/broken-out/reiser4-adjust-to-the-new-aops.patch

Not everything is ok, though: I still have lockups under heavy load,
however, long sync and fs corruption problems should be gone.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edward_ wrote:
Mr. Tao wrote:
And here is output of fsck.reiser4 --build-fs.


Please, send all bugreports and related stuff to the reiserfs-devel
mailing list in the future. Let's keep it in one place..

Thanks.


Hi Edward,

it's nice to see you here in the gentoo forums

thanks for your continued work on Reiser4 and reiserfs

:D
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kernelOfTruth wrote:
Hi Edward,
it's nice to see you here in the gentoo forums
thanks for your continued work on Reiser4 and reiserfs
:D
++ :)

Glad to hear about loops. I got new machine (which I haven't managed to install yet because Nvidia's MCP7A integrated LAN doesn't work with sysresccd) so probably I'm going to give it a try soon.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kernelOfTruth wrote:
Mr. Tao wrote:
After listening to grinding HDs with eg ext3 it was love at first hear.


I feel you :)

for me it was the experiences with (especially) XFS and ext3

Depends on the drive too, but I know the feeling. I still use XFS though as it has provided better performance for the work I'm doing with HD TV.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some advice:

* if you use reiser4 on your / (root) partition - you shouldn't set fully preemptive kernel
only select voluntary preemption
-> don't use it
* preemptible rcu also isn't too well
-> might trigger hardlocks at boot-up (probably not anymore but who knows in the future)
-> don't use

both, if selected, might cause corruptions of your filesystem which are mostly fixable but easily omittable by obeying these steps


fully preemption often is triggering cbk cache BUGs for me
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kernelOfTruth wrote:
some advice:

* if you use reiser4 on your / (root) partition - you shouldn't set fully preemptive kernel
only select voluntary preemption
-> don't use it
* preemptible rcu also isn't too well
-> might trigger hardlocks at boot-up (probably not anymore but who knows in the future)
-> don't use

both, if selected, might cause corruptions of your filesystem which are mostly fixable but easily omittable by obeying these steps


fully preemption often is triggering cbk cache BUGs for me


Please make sure if it takes place with the latest stuff:
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/edward/reiser4/reiser4-for-2.6/reiser4-for-2.6.28.patch.gz

If so, please, catch and send the oops messages.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KernelOfTruth Wrote:
Quote:
It's a shame that reiser4 every now and then is being tried to be "killed" (no pun intended) just because of some personal hard feelings against Hans

did the filesystem do anything wrong ? :?

if you've read through all reiser4 documentation and compared it to the other filesystems of its time you'll recognize that it is/was sure ahead of its time including

lots of nicely thought out ideas which make it pretty efficient in several areas


I completely agree, I really began to like what I saw in ver 4. I doubt it will ever leave the ground for too much opposition. Such bittersweet. Someone brilliant develops a new fs that is just groundbreaking, but then is sent to prison before it can be included in the kernel w/o patching.[/quote]
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kernelOfTruth wrote:
* if you use reiser4 on your / (root) partition - you shouldn't set fully preemptive kernel
* preemptible rcu also isn't too well
-> might trigger hardlocks at boot-up (probably not anymore but who knows in the future)

both, if selected, might cause corruptions of your filesystem which are mostly fixable but easily omittable by obeying these steps
fully preemption often is triggering cbk cache BUGs for me

I have no such problems here, and have been using pre-empt for a long time now.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
kernelOfTruth wrote:
* if you use reiser4 on your / (root) partition - you shouldn't set fully preemptive kernel
* preemptible rcu also isn't too well
-> might trigger hardlocks at boot-up (probably not anymore but who knows in the future)

both, if selected, might cause corruptions of your filesystem which are mostly fixable but easily omittable by obeying these steps
fully preemption often is triggering cbk cache BUGs for me

I have no such problems here, and have been using pre-empt for a long time now.


hm, so it's perhaps because I'm using proprietary graphics drivers ?

amd catalyst drivers are causing me a much headache (no preemptible rcu, no fully preemption, no really working PAT, ...)

all of those is causing BUGs, hangs, whatever

this might be the reason reiser4 is suffering and causing problems

@edward:

I'll try vanilla + reiser4-patch in the weekend - if I find time - or during the next weeks

and will then post the error messages on reiserfs-devel / reiserfs mailing list if they still occur

currently I'm using zen-sources 2.6.28-zen10

thanks !
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