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bunder
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:47 am    Post subject: Posting in OTW vs other categories Reply with quote

Please, if you have a gentoo support question, use the proper category. Over the past little while, I've had to move support questions off to the right category, mostly Portage and Programming. The typical rule is that if you don't know what category to post in, and the question is gentoo related, it should go in Other Things Gentoo. Please try to use better judgement in the future.

Thank you :D
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

portage & programming is FGO's redheaded stepchild ;-)

you can not expect to get an answer there. and IF, it takes days.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

square_ wrote:
you can not expect to get an answer there. and IF, it takes days.


maybe if more people spent time outside of otw, they would get a higher post count and get more questions resolved quickly. :wink:
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is this "outside of otw" you speak of?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What governs something belonging in P&P ??
THAT is probably the vagues and cause of most mis-placed topics

If a topic w.r.t. portage was put into OTW then sure, move to P&P.
If a topic w.r.t. bash scripting around... yum shouldn't that be left in OTW?

what abt generic bash,python,C,<insert your poison> which has nothing todo with gentoo whatsoever BUT a question todo with a personal project ? OTW surely is the better place since... Not gentoo specific
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bunder wrote:
square_ wrote:
you can not expect to get an answer there. and IF, it takes days.
maybe if more people spent time outside of otw, they would get a higher post count and get more questions resolved quickly. :wink:
I spent 3 years getting over 3000 posts, I think i've helped enough
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naib wrote:
What governs something belonging in P&P ??
THAT is probably the vagues and cause of most mis-placed topics

If a topic w.r.t. portage was put into OTW then sure, move to P&P.
If a topic w.r.t. bash scripting around... yum shouldn't that be left in OTW?

what abt generic bash,python,C,<insert your poison> which has nothing todo with gentoo whatsoever BUT a question todo with a personal project ? OTW surely is the better place since... Not gentoo specific


some good questions, i'll try to answer them with how i would normally deal with them. other moderators might feel otherwise OTOH.

bash scripting around yum is still a bash script, but if the problem was yum, it would probably end up in OTW. if the problem was writing the script, i'd probably move it to P+P.

personal scripting projects, as long as it is a *nix language, would probably also end up in P+P. windows coding languages, as much as they would annoy me, would probably stay in OTW. (i realize most languages can code for multiple OSes, but hopefully you get what i mean :wink: )

i'm just trying to keep OTW from turning into a general dumping zone. (okay who am i kidding, "even more" of a dumping zone. :lol: )
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about an "Other things NOT Gentoo" support sub-forum?.. That way OTW ceases to become a mod dumping ground :P
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AidanJT wrote:
How about an "Other things NOT Gentoo" support sub-forum?.. That way OTW ceases to become a mod dumping ground :P


you mean "Other Things Linux"? the category did exist at one point, i've tried resurrecting it a few times. it's up to the admins to determine if we really need one. :|
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

square_ wrote:
portage & programming is FGO's redheaded stepchild ;-)

you can not expect to get an answer there. and IF, it takes days.


Well I visit there ~twice a day and if there is a python or bash question I will see if I can answer it. So there are ppl that do check it out
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bunder wrote:
AidanJT wrote:
How about an "Other things NOT Gentoo" support sub-forum?.. That way OTW ceases to become a mod dumping ground :P


you mean "Other Things Linux"? the category did exist at one point, i've tried resurrecting it a few times. it's up to the admins to determine if we really need one. :|

I'd vote for it, only I'm a mere lowly mortal.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say most of the posts bunder is talking about end up in P+P...

The reason is because P+P is specifically both problems with portage/build errors AND a generic programming forum...

I've asked questions completely about the init system I'm writing on poly-p-ux - no gentoo at all - in there (well, some went otw -> P+P), and that's correct...

...so why is it a gentoo support forum if it's half generic programming?

Also... my most recent post that got thrown into multimedia - "what is sox -w"... No mention of gentoo at all... I could have been using sox on Fedora or something... does that really belong in multimedia?

Besides, it's really true that posts outside of OTW are less likely to be answered, and MUCH less likely to be answered quickly. Keep in mind, there are a bunch of smart trolls who spend there time nowhere but OTW... why do you think ha1f has 34 "real" posts? Then of course, there's unanswered... a flawed system, I might add. The main problem with unanswered is that it only shows posts with no replies...

First problem: somebody posts a question. 1 person is a bitch (or a mod moves it around), and suddenly, the whole topic is no longer in unanswered, but it gets lost in whatever relevant forum that it's in - and very few people check many of those forums directly - really, the only time I've been in any of those was either on the occasional short whim, or when I'm making a post. This fact causes posts in any other forums to be answered much slower - less people on them.

Brainstorms for improvements:

1. Fix unanswered - make a system where you can tag your question as "support question" or "other", and also "solved" or "unsolved"... then, have unanswered search for all that get "support question" and "unsolved". Of course, it would take lots of programming... but I'm sure someone's up to it.

2. Split P+P into Portage problems and Programming problems...

3. Make a support OTW... merge the Programming problems into it, for one.

4. Make a "Don't Know Where to Post?" forum.. and have dedicated mods hover over that.

just a few ideas...

poly-p man
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Portage & Programming Problems with emerge or ebuilds? Have a basic programming question about C, PHP, Perl, BASH or something else?
P & P has always been the right place for general programming questions, even not related to gentoo.

I suppose that one exception to the typically "support only" rule should be made more apparent/obvious.

I have to agree though, otw can often give a way faster response to some programming queries...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not going to bother quoting poly-whatshisface, mostly cause I couldn't be bothered dealing woth his sig yet again, but I have to agree that splitting the general programming questions off to thier own section would be a very good idea, and there is easily enough posts for portage-related topics and general programming questions to warrant a separate section for each.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

poly_poly-man wrote:
I'd say most of the posts bunder is talking about end up in P+P...

The reason is because P+P is specifically both problems with portage/build errors AND a generic programming forum...

I've asked questions completely about the init system I'm writing on poly-p-ux - no gentoo at all - in there (well, some went otw -> P+P), and that's correct...

...so why is it a gentoo support forum if it's half generic programming?

Also... my most recent post that got thrown into multimedia - "what is sox -w"... No mention of gentoo at all... I could have been using sox on Fedora or something... does that really belong in multimedia?


i realize it's somewhat of an open-ended issue, and that by moving generic programming questions to P+P may inflate that category, but i feel it's better than ignoring the entire forums and only using OTW to solve questions.

the reason i moved that thread, was that while you didn't mention what distro it was for, it was multimedia based... and this being the gentoo forums, i assumed that this was wrt gentoo. it's always a good idea to mention what you are using if it's not gentoo, that way mistakes won't be made by us.

and i understand the shortcomings about the unanswered posts system, unfortunately i can't think of a way around that. i'll bring it up with tomk when he returns from fixing his PC. that's the least i can do. :wink:

unfortunately, due to the highly-social effects of OTW, posts in other categories sometimes end up going unanswered. sadly, the only solution i have to that is to get people to start using those categories more, rather than further propagating the standard of OTW being a generic question bin.

i hope my ramblings make some sense. :lol:
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bunder wrote:


i hope my ramblings make some sense. :lol:

about as much as wtf does "poly_cant_use_a_sig-man" insist on signing EVERY post... that is what the sig if for

can you just disable his usualy sig, since he doesn't seem to want to use that.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bunder wrote:
unfortunately, due to the highly-social effects of OTW, posts in other categories sometimes end up going unanswered. sadly, the only solution i have to that is to get people to start using those categories more, rather than further propagating the standard of OTW being a generic question bin.


There's just SO MANY of them... I can't be arsed to look through all the forums for questions I can help with...

My rotation (that gave me my last 100 posts in a few days):

1. check egosearch. Deal with all the replies there.
2. check OTW. Deal with all the fun stuff there.
3. check egosearch.
4. check unanswered - answer all the first-page ones I can.
5. check egosearch again.
6. rinse and repeat.

I answer unanswered's relatively quickly (compared to when they were posted), and I can catch most of the questions I can deal with... but it would just be too hard to play with the others... and often pointless. Sure, sometimes there's a bunch of questions I can deal with... most of the time, tho, they aren't there or they are already completely answered.

I think an improved unanswered system could get more of the people like me to answer more not-OTW questions...

This indirectly helps with the problem - I think I'd be more likely to post in Programming, multimedia, whatever if I knew people could see it until I was done with it.

poly-p man
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a similar rotation to poly_poly-man,

egosearch - to continue help in progress
unanswered - to start new help
posts from last 24 hours - in case I missed something interesting
rinse and repeat.

In between I deal with spammers, any wrongly posted topics but only rarely stray into OTW.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guilty as charged.

Must confess this thread hasn't really enlightened me, other than "Put all shell scripting questions in P&P". Because it seems typical Python or C questions remains in OTW? What if I have a Konqueror question - that has nothing to do with Gentoo? Just a usability/settings question?

Reason I dumped a lot of things in OTW in the past was because, in the past, a lot of these questions would be posted in other support forums and moderators would just move them to OTW because they were not "Gentoo-specific".
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i always ask for help with my programming in OTW because I know most of the people in there and I know it would get the most people looking at it.

Any personal programming i need help with is nothing to do with portage so i see no reason why it should go in there
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
i always ask for help with my programming in OTW because I know most of the people in there and I know it would get the most people looking at it.

Any personal programming i need help with is nothing to do with portage so i see no reason why it should go in there
Even though it clearly belongs in Portage & Programming...
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopeless wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
i always ask for help with my programming in OTW because I know most of the people in there and I know it would get the most people looking at it.

Any personal programming i need help with is nothing to do with portage so i see no reason why it should go in there
Even though it clearly belongs in Portage & Programming...
why does it belong in Gentoo's portage and programming?

Lets face it, the name of the forum is a throw back to the golden age when users used to fix the problems with portage with their own python patches and were posted there and later added to the next portage version. Today's "Portage and Programming" is totally different and should be changed to "All Things Portage". There should be a nice little sub-forum in OTW specifically for programming but i dont think it would get used enough
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Portage and Programming wrote:
Problems with emerge or ebuilds? Have a basic programming question about C, PHP, Perl, BASH or something else?

Cos it says so right there?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AidanJT wrote:
Portage and Programming wrote:
Problems with emerge or ebuilds? Have a basic programming question about C, PHP, Perl, BASH or something else?

Cos it says so right there?


the big problem is that it is within the gentoo support forums...

Sure it says that, but we are to be mislead by the fact that OTW gets so many "Moved to Off The Wall. Not about Gentoo, so moved here" messages from the mods.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
Hopeless wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
i always ask for help with my programming in OTW because I know most of the people in there and I know it would get the most people looking at it.

Any personal programming i need help with is nothing to do with portage so i see no reason why it should go in there
Even though it clearly belongs in Portage & Programming...
why does it belong in Gentoo's portage and programming?

Lets face it, the name of the forum is a throw back to the golden age when you used to fix the problems with portage with python patches that were posted there and later added to the next version. Today's "Portage and Programming" is totally different and should be changed to "All Things Portage". There should be a nice little sub-forum in OTW specifically for programming but i dont think it would get used enough
le sigh...

Quote:
Portage & Programming
Problems with emerge or ebuilds? Have a basic programming question about C, PHP, Perl, BASH or something else?
For as long as I can remember P & P has been the appropriate place for such topics.

I agree that a separate general programming section would be better, but I think it should be in the same section as OTW (ie "Discussion & Documentation") rather than a subsection of OTW itself, and posts in it should still be listed in unanswered.
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