New KDE 4.1 release

[energyman76b]

[node_one]

[Benni123]

Since I have tested Kde 4:

I think it is only a sign of professionality if a distro decides to switch to this unready software at first when it is somewhat stable.

Many applications (e.g. K3B, Digikam, Kile) are not yet ready for KDE4.

For Kdevelop, there exists an "alpha" version for KDE4. I could not install it, when i tested KDE4. It broke during compilation. But there is an interesting "comparison table" of Kdevlope 3 and the version for KDE4:

http://www.kdevelop.org/mediawiki/index.php/KDevelop_4/KDev3_KDev4_comparison_table
(one must scroll down to see this desaster...)

Everyone who wants to switsch to KDE4 should look at this table. 90% of the features of Kdevelop 3 are not available in Kdevelop4 yet.

One can conclude: Kde4 is something for Suse or Ubuntu users without any professional interest. What can they do with a desktop manager where most of the Software does not work with?

[energyman76b]

well, kde3 software runs just fine in kde4. So what is the problem?
_________________
Study finds stunning lack of racial, gender, and economic diversity among middle-class white males

I identify as a dirty penismensch.

[Benni123]

[energyman76b]

'pollute' - everything kde3 is in one directory, everything kde4 is in a different - and since 4 is not even an update (or a slotted one), kde3 won't be unmerged until you do it. keeping around 3 for a while is a good thing - in case of severe bugs. But hey, if you are developing software you know that yourself - always have a known good version as an emergency fallback ...
_________________
Study finds stunning lack of racial, gender, and economic diversity among middle-class white males

I identify as a dirty penismensch.

[dleverton]

[energyman76b]

[_puck_]

I understand that developers want to have some fun doing their work and I respect that. I would want that too.

But if you want to build a house you need a plan. Every craftsman is good in his/her area and makes improvements which is definitly a good thing and wanted. But if there is no architekt you may have many occupied craftsman but never a house you can live in.

Even if they build four beatiful houses but finish none of them they may have had a good time, but they havn't done anything usefull at all. They are not craftsman then, they are just a bunch of handyman.

If they want to do what they like, they can have a good time, but if you organise in a group with a goal you have also a responsiblity for the tasks you accept.
_________________
regards
puck
___________________________
#There is more than one way to do it.

[yngwin]

[yngwin]

[_puck_]

In the meantime I got a Kubuntu CD and installed it (in less than one hour) along with gentoo complete with kde4.1. I have to say, it works for me, I talk about the KDE-part. There are some minor annoyances (very small), but all my daily tasks can be done without any drawback. All my hardware (Thinkpad T61p) worked out of the box. I would consider it a really good work. Yes, there are not as many configuration options as with KDE3 at the moment.

It is a bit like christmas or easter when you first start a new desktop and poke arround to see where the eggs have been hidden. I love that. It is very beautiful, all the KDE3 apps work (there are not many you really need). It feels a bit more grown-up compared to KDE3.5.

I really wanted to make that experience with gentoo like in the past. But one has to know when something is futile. You have to set priorities.
_________________
regards
puck
___________________________
#There is more than one way to do it.

[asturm]

Well, you could have had all the same with kdesvn-portage. The ebuilds have been there three days before official release.

All that talk about a real none-issue...

[_puck_]

[asturm]

Questionable - if you want bleeding edge you may as well could use an overlay. But you are free to keep your philosphical/political principles and leave.

[Benni123]

[_puck_]

[asturm]

Well, bitching about some piece of software just released 2 days ago will most certainly not help Gentoo. Gentoo doesn't only provide the heavy vanilla packages, it provides them split up in smaller units, and sorting that out takes some time. Especially when you're understaffed. While I'm unfortunately not in a position to help out, I won't complain about a few days delay.

[Benni123]

I think gentoo devs would better care about their live CDs (which do still not work on my IBM T61 Laptop) or their buggy installer. A working Live CD can be essential.

Debian has survived a long time with it beiing known as supporting only rather old software. KDE4 should wait unless it is in a stage where one can work professionally with it. And it has certeinly not reached such a stage yet.

I do not see which function of KDE4 would be necessary to work that KDE3 has not. KDE4.1 has even less features than KDE3. So why should a software with less features be supportet by a professional distro?

[L4in]

http://overlays.gentoo.org/

[dleverton]

[Sh4doW]

[szensz-siempre]

Like most on this forum I have been popping in every day since the release of KDE4.1 to see if it has been introduced into portage. I too like and want to have the latest software. However, I am willing to be patient because I have faith that the devs will put it in when they feel it is ready. If I think I know better I have the option of bringing it in from the overlay.

The main argument here seems to be: I (user) want KDE4.1, so I think that YOU (dev) must put it in portage NOW. It is not fair that YOU (dev) spend your time working on what YOU want for free when I want YOU to work on something else.

IMO some distros have the problem that they dictate available options (which some users don't mind seeing as they get KDE4.1 on release day), others like gentoo have the problem (challenge) of trying to make everyone happy (different versions of package managers, official portage as well as overlays - from which those complaining could easily get KDE4.1). I guess the gentoo community is slowing down because it is tired, like a mother hen with too many chicks that sit with beaks wide open refusing to pick up the grain scattered around them and wanting to be beak (hand) fed according to their dictates. I strongly believe that if anyone wants to help they can, perhaps not becoming part of the inner circle of developers straight away, but working in submitting ebuilds, helping in the forums and bugzilla, writing documentation, etc. Gentoo will never survive if it is not a collaborating community. It is not understaffing and slow releases that is hurting gentoo but politics and bickering like I see in this forum. If you want to contribute and help, then do it, don't wait around for a title, contribute and help others.

Personally, I am a user and not a developer or tinkerer. I want the reassurance that when I emerge a package it will work and not break my system. I want a system that even though it includes the latest eye-candy is stable. I use my laptop for work everyday and cannot afford to take a couple of hours out to fix dependency issues, broken packages, and failed emerges. As such I am willing to wait till KDE4.1 is in portage, trusting that it will have been sufficiently tested for my arch that I won't have too many problems.

Ultimately the strength of gentoo is going to lie in whether users, developers, testers, and tinkerers can work together with a shared appreciation of each others needs and concerns, and a willingness to be supportive. I don't feel the need to use another distro because I don't have KDE4.1 as quickly as they do (Once again you can have it earlier than most other distros through overlays), the only time I have gotten discouraged is when I have posted for help on the forums and not gotten any answer.

In conclusion, I will continue waiting in anticipation for KDE4.1 to be released in portage because I choose not to get it from an overlay. I commend the devs for their hard work, encourage them to listen to users, and appreciate that it is their time they are giving to us. And I encourage the community to work symbiotically to reawaken the "glory days" of gentoo.

[_puck_]

[_puck_]