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Bumbl
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Gentoo Linux on the Openmoko Freerunner Reply with quote

As there is a gentoo version for arm processors:
How big is the chance to get portage working well (with the tree as nfs share)
on this device?
Would be cool to have use flags, compiler options and stuff on this handy little device.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

since the graphics chip is connected via SDIO and the run time is between 16 and 24h, nothing runs well on that device.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think it is better to have the glamo connected via sdio instead of having no glamo because that would mean that on the fly rotation would be near to impossible

and the battery time will increase as soon as the apm is fixed properly; then you'll probably get about 48h or more which is as much as my actual handy performs

even if at the moment it is not ready for end users this device has potential
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

think again. SDIO is slow. And something you really don't want is slow graphics. Videos? Forget it. Video via SDIO is the most brain dead thing I ever heart. That is even worse than ISA. Btw, the first prototypes had 'real' graphics. Why didn't they stay with that?
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved from Gentoo Chat to Gentoo on Alternative Architectures.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
think again. SDIO is slow. And something you really don't want is slow graphics. Videos? Forget it. Video via SDIO is the most brain dead thing I ever heart. That is even worse than ISA. Btw, the first prototypes had 'real' graphics. Why didn't they stay with that?


videos are possible at half the resolution the screen has
but i don't need videos on my phone anyway

but it should be possible to get portage to run?
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bumbl wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
think again. SDIO is slow. And something you really don't want is slow graphics. Videos? Forget it. Video via SDIO is the most brain dead thing I ever heart. That is even worse than ISA. Btw, the first prototypes had 'real' graphics. Why didn't they stay with that?


videos are possible at half the resolution the screen has
but i don't need videos on my phone anyway

but it should be possible to get portage to run?


no videos = no youtube. Videos (and tv, dvb-t, dvb-h) is the new craze. Half screen resolution? That is what? 160x80?
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
Bumbl wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
think again. SDIO is slow. And something you really don't want is slow graphics. Videos? Forget it. Video via SDIO is the most brain dead thing I ever heart. That is even worse than ISA. Btw, the first prototypes had 'real' graphics. Why didn't they stay with that?


videos are possible at half the resolution the screen has
but i don't need videos on my phone anyway

but it should be possible to get portage to run?


no videos = no youtube. Videos (and tv, dvb-t, dvb-h) is the new craze. Half screen resolution? That is what? 160x80?

I would recommend stop bitching and read some documentation ;)

I'm thinking about start working on it in a very near future - as soon as I get my hands on freerunner.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i get mine this week

@ energyman: full resolution is 480 x 640 pixels over 2.8" ->half resolution is 240 x 320 Pixels
which is more than most of the other phones do have

concerning youtube: no problem if you stream it over wlan because then no sd card is needed -> full bandwith for the glamo
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bumbl wrote:
i get mine this week

@ energyman: full resolution is 480 x 640 pixels over 2.8" ->half resolution is 240 x 320 Pixels
which is more than most of the other phones do have

concerning youtube: no problem if you stream it over wlan because then no sd card is needed -> full bandwith for the glamo


This device looks pretty impressive to me. I'm considering it. Please give us all experience feedback.

Don't let energyman get you down. He bought an iPhone.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should get my Freerunner tomorrow or on Wednesday. If you wanna know more, check out community archives mailing list.

It seems porting gentoo to freerunner won't be easy at all. I already had a chat with some devs about it, and it seems ebuilds format isn't really that great for cross-compilation.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minor_prophets wrote:
Bumbl wrote:
i get mine this week

@ energyman: full resolution is 480 x 640 pixels over 2.8" ->half resolution is 240 x 320 Pixels
which is more than most of the other phones do have

concerning youtube: no problem if you stream it over wlan because then no sd card is needed -> full bandwith for the glamo


This device looks pretty impressive to me. I'm considering it. Please give us all experience feedback.

Don't let energyman get you down. He bought an iPhone.


no, I didn't
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
minor_prophets wrote:
Bumbl wrote:
i get mine this week

@ energyman: full resolution is 480 x 640 pixels over 2.8" ->half resolution is 240 x 320 Pixels
which is more than most of the other phones do have

concerning youtube: no problem if you stream it over wlan because then no sd card is needed -> full bandwith for the glamo


This device looks pretty impressive to me. I'm considering it. Please give us all experience feedback.

Don't let energyman get you down. He bought an iPhone.


no, I didn't


Just joking around, energyman. Relax. :wink:
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dagger wrote:
I should get my Freerunner tomorrow or on Wednesday. If you wanna know more, check out community archives mailing list.

It seems porting gentoo to freerunner won't be easy at all. I already had a chat with some devs about it, and it seems ebuilds format isn't really that great for cross-compilation.


Danger/Bubbl,

If I may ask, what are/will you be planning to do with the device aside from calls? Got any immediate plans? <The appropriate question would seem to be "What are you NOT going to do?", but I digress>
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minor_prophets wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
minor_prophets wrote:

Don't let energyman get you down. He bought an iPhone.


no, I didn't


Just joking around, energyman. Relax. :wink:


apple is nothing to joke about! I see you in seven days, at dawn! :P
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
minor_prophets wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
minor_prophets wrote:

Don't let energyman get you down. He bought an iPhone.


no, I didn't


Just joking around, energyman. Relax. :wink:


apple is nothing to joke about! I see you in seven days, at dawn! :P


After school at 3pm! Why wait!? :twisted: :wink:
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minor_prophets wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
minor_prophets wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
minor_prophets wrote:

Don't let energyman get you down. He bought an iPhone.


no, I didn't


Just joking around, energyman. Relax. :wink:


apple is nothing to joke about! I see you in seven days, at dawn! :P


After school at 3pm! Why wait!? :twisted: :wink:


after school? So you are not an adult?

Shit! there is no honor in beating up a child - go home kid, there is nothing to see.
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AidanJT wrote:

Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup.
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minor_prophets
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
minor_prophets wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
minor_prophets wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
minor_prophets wrote:

Don't let energyman get you down. He bought an iPhone.


no, I didn't


Just joking around, energyman. Relax. :wink:


apple is nothing to joke about! I see you in seven days, at dawn! :P


After school at 3pm! Why wait!? :twisted: :wink:


after school? So you are not an adult?

Shit! there is no honor in beating up a child - go home kid, there is nothing to see.


LOL! The phrase is a manner of speech, not necessarily an indicator of age, though perhaps of maturity. In either event, the meaning was lost in translation and the previous dialog(minus the FreeRunner stuff) should be designated to the dustbin of history.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minor_prophets wrote:
Dagger wrote:
I should get my Freerunner tomorrow or on Wednesday. If you wanna know more, check out community archives mailing list.

It seems porting gentoo to freerunner won't be easy at all. I already had a chat with some devs about it, and it seems ebuilds format isn't really that great for cross-compilation.


Danger/Bubbl,

If I may ask, what are/will you be planning to do with the device aside from calls? Got any immediate plans? <The appropriate question would seem to be "What are you NOT going to do?", but I digress>

My freerunner is on it's way and UPS tracking number has been issued. I should get my hands on it tomorrow morning :)

Well I've got couple of things I would like to do (depends how well/fast GSoC projects progress). Generally I want to do everything I can't do on my old Symbian based N80.

SMS middleware (controlling your phone through text messages) seems like a very interesting idea, and Accelerometer-based Gestures project looks extremely promising. Possibilities are almost endless - only limited by your imagination.

Of course device is far from perfect, kinda limited and will be mainly used as a development platform rather than day-to-day phone. My main focus will be on developing openembeded enhancement/replacement to be more flexible, more user-controlled than it currently is.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm considering to purchase a freerunner, but I would like the opinion of a gentoo user who has already used it.

I read in the openmoko website that even is not for mass consumer use but i don't mind to try beta software, my goals with the phone are:

- Make/Receive calls without hassle.
- Basic PDA functions ( calendar, Notes, Addressbook).
- Music/Video player ( mplayer seems to run on it now).
- E-mail (Desired but I can wait).
- Browser ((Desired but I can wait).

The last time I tried an open product was the Neuros II and although it worked very well for a year, at the end I started to have many problems with the hardware and the product was discontinued, end up buying the ipod and falled in love with it ( thanks to gtkpod).

Thanks
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhr0771 wrote:
I'm considering to purchase a freerunner, but I would like the opinion of a gentoo user who has already used it.

I read in the openmoko website that even is not for mass consumer use but i don't mind to try beta software, my goals with the phone are:

- Make/Receive calls without hassle.

should be possible
Quote:

- Basic PDA functions ( calendar, Notes, Addressbook).

is available, though there is room for huge improvements
Quote:

- Music/Video player ( mplayer seems to run on it now).

music and video playback are possible although there are a few softwarebugs
e.g. ogg playback is at the moment not possible
and you have to recode the videos for the neo
Quote:

- E-mail (Desired but I can wait).

afaik there are some really basic clients out there
Quote:

- Browser ((Desired but I can wait).

with minimo there is a more or less good browser available
Quote:

The last time I tried an open product was the Neuros II and although it worked very well for a year, at the end I started to have many problems with the hardware and the product was discontinued, end up buying the ipod and falled in love with it ( thanks to gtkpod).

Thanks


I don't think the neos/openmoko will be discontinued because first of all they have a big company supporting them (fic)
they have told to release every single schematic of a product after they cease to produce it

p.s.:
the 100h standby wall was successfully crashed
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Openmoko Freerunner, why not ? Reply with quote

I agree that the Freerunner is not greatest phone I've bought, but it's the only phone I've seen so far on which I can already install 3 distros (OpenMoko, Debian and Qtopia). The Gentoo Embedded effort is in pretty bad shape right now while the tools that where created are conceptually better and simpler than other alternatives (like OpenEmbedded). I think this is the perfect platform to use to help with Gentoo Embedded. The performance issues will give programmers the constraint they need to be fast as light on future hardware.

About the SDIO connected Glamo, not much work have been done so far and I'm pretty sure we can get acceptable output speed if we manage to use the 7 mb/s bus efficiently.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, for that SDIO stuff... 640*480*16 = 4915200, so a fullscreen, full-resolution video demands about 5Mbit - with no SD-Card access this works ok as 5 < 7.
Now we want to use the SD-Card to watch our favorite movie in a train (well, I prefer my laptop, but this seems to be a common use case these days). Lets try quarter-resolution videos, which is as good as a video on my iPod touch:
320*240*16 = (640/2)*(480/2)*16 = 4915200/4 = 1228800
Wow, not even 1.3Mbit - of course we need this twice as we probably don't send video from the SD Card directly to the glamo, so we consume 2.6 Mbit of our 7 Mbit Bandwidth. Seems pretty ok to me.

And now imagine we have DMA (which I don't know!!) - *if* we have DMA we *could* tell the glamo to either stream a full-resolution video from the SD consuming 5Mbit bandwidth OR we stream a quarter-resolution video using only 1.3 Mbit of capacity. Why should we want to do such a thing? Maybe we *could* lower the power consumption this way while having a video quality that's still as good as the video quality of other certain products :mrgreen:

Of course you have to encode the video in a way the glamo can handle it, but you have to reencode videos for most mobile devices.

I just hope that bandwidth calculation is correct as I am not very good in bus stuff...

Greetings, Sebastian (who ownes an iPod touch and a GTA02v5 FreeRunner and can't wait for Gentoo on FR :-D)
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I own a Freerunner since the first official delivery of the device. Although the specs are quite impressive i wouldn't set my expectations too high else you will get disappointed (and probably frustrated). Alot of things are not working at all (suspend/resume) and some things are not working reliably (gps/accelerometers). Things are definitely better now but still far from being perfect. I started using the OM2007.2 distribution and as soon as ASU was released i decided to give it a go. About two hours later i was reflashing the old OM2007.2-image because i was one the lucky guys that hit the pin-dialog-not-showing-at-startup issue, so i had no gsm at all. So and now back to the main topic...

When i read on the openmoko-community-mailinglist that ppl are working on a gentoo-distribution for openmoko (how-to cross-compile on arm4-devices and 2008.0-stages for arm4) i said to myself i definitely want to try that. I decided to go for the cross-compilation way because some things are missing from the stages (xglamo, e/illume und fso for the phone-related stuff e.g.). After a few days of work i have to say this whole thing is a REAL pita. Almost EVERY package that i tried to install failed due to some reason (mostly linking-problems). Today i have manged to install python, portage and metalog. I know this doesn't sound like that i've accomplished alot but i have to say i'm satisfied with my progress today. Especially as i had to fight with a big linking problem yesterday. So i'm making progess slowly but steadily. I'll keep you posted about the development process.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi spielc,

nice :-)

I think potential Gentoo-on-FR users would appreciate a small hint on how to handle the linking problems (or at least one user - me ;-) )

Cheers, Sebastian
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