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rgk
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 140
Location: ny
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 Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Long Live Gentoo! 
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MadGizmo.com is awesome. |
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zAfi
Apprentice
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 220
Location: Austria
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| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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yeehaw!!! great to hear that...keep up the great work...
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Gentoo 2008.0/desktop | Kernel: 2.6.27-tuxonice | Arch: amd64 | KDE 3.5.9 | WU Wien |
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kevmille
Guru
Joined: 26 Jul 2003
Posts: 311
Location: Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon), Vietnam
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| dberkholz wrote: | | scrappy wrote: | | Is the Gentoo Foundation a not-for-profit? Are donations made via that Paypal link tax deductible? |
No, it's set up as a 501(c)(6) rather than a 501(c)(3) so donations are not tax-deductible. |
Membership dues are tax deductible though so it would be nice if there was a possibility of having a Membership for users of some sort to raise money. Say $20/year US?
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My Company: Hakata Consulting |
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Colonel Paneek
n00b
Joined: 06 Mar 2003
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Could someone please explain what benefits there are for Gentoo users in the existance a Gentoo corporate entity? |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54216
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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Colonel Paneek,
Currently, not a lot. The Gentoo Foundation looks after Gentoos Intelectual Property, Trade Mark and runs the Gentoo Shop which is currently in disrepair.
The Gentoo Foundation is an American Corporate entity so any tax savings for donors can only be realised if you pay tax in the USA.
The Foundation also looks after Gentoos Finances, which can be used to further the Foundations declared aims.
Longer term, it depends on how Gentoo and the Foundation develop.
While our good standing has been restored in New Mexico, a lot remains to be done to get the Foundation on a sound footing so it can fulfill its role as originally intended when it was set up. Then the Foundation can look at how it can better serve Gentoo.
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Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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marduk
Retired Dev
Joined: 20 Sep 2002
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 2:06 am Post subject: |
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| When can we begin lobbying Congress? |
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Colonel Paneek
n00b
Joined: 06 Mar 2003
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: |
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NeddySeagoon,
IP & Windows DRM seem to be driven by the same issues, and the implementation of DRM in Vista has not been to the benefit of Windows users in general. Why should the situation with Gentoo be any different?
Both Microsoft and the open source community state the terms under which software is licenced, yet it is not generally well understood under what circumstances licensing is appropriate. In general, "fair use" leads to the issue of compliance with licencing requirements to be irrelevant; implying that that there is some aspect of the use of the software which is unfair.
I would contend that one such aspect is that of plagiarism, in that corporate interests are such that crediting the original writers of the software with authorship is not desired. Rather, the work as whole is described as the property of the respective corporate entity.
I'd be interested to hear your views on this topic.
Regards,
CP
marduk,
Would that be "we the persons"? |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54216
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Colonel Paneek,
Disclaimer - The views below are my own, not the official view of the Gentoo Foundation, the trustees or anybody else.
Lets set a few terms of reference before we start.
Gentoos Intellectual Property covers everything that Gentoo does.
Digital Rights Management is a small part of Intellectual Property protection.
The two should not be discussed in the same breath as they are only very broadly linked.
Gentoo and Microsoft set out to achieve different things by Intellectual Property protection.
Briefly, Microsoft licences restrict sharing and use. Gentoo licences encourage sharing and use.
Perhaps an anacdote will help here. In the UK, a certain software distributor was raided. They were found to be dupicating copies of a Linux distrubtion licenced under the GPL. The copies and their equipment were confiscated. The authorites contated the FSF, who told them that was quite all right, they didn't want to press charges and please give the distributor their copies and equipment back.
Now suppose that had been Microsoft software ?
Gentoo IP protection exists to ensure the rights under the licences are protected, in the same way as Microsoft IP protection exists.
Its just the licences that are being enforced are so different.
With that understood, lets move on to Digital Rights Management.
First, its my understanding that Digital Rights Management as it exists today is not Copyright Protection or even close.
Copyright is an exchange. The author/owner of a work is granted copyright in exchange for 'fair use'. Fair use extends to permitting the copy of small portions of a protected work for study, critisism or reference. Digital Rights Management today thwarts any such permitted copying, thus users are robbed of their rights under copyright. As I say, thats a personal view.
As the licences are so different, Gentoo has no need of DRM in an attempt to manage its IP. To be fair to Microsoft, DRM came about from pressure for the entertainment industry, not themselves. I recall one open source software project trying to implement DRM to support such entertainments industry material but I don't know what happened to it.
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Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Colonel Paneek
n00b
Joined: 06 Mar 2003
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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NeddySeagoon,
| Quote: | Lets set a few terms of reference before we start.
Gentoos Intellectual Property covers everything that Gentoo does. |
Property relates to things that can be exchanged. Actions cannot be exchanged. The term "intellectual property" is something of a misnomer, since neither a creative work nor authorship can be exchanged.
| Quote: | Digital Rights Management is a small part of Intellectual Property protection.
The two should not be discussed in the same breath as they are only very broadly linked. |
The issue driving DRM and IP protection (re open source software) is the control of the use of creative works. Both Microsoft and the OSS community utilize licencing in order to effect this control. As such licences are sold as pertaining to all use rather than only to unfair use, an (unintentional) fraud results when the right to fair use is injured, for example fair use of a GPL work without disclosure of the supplemental source code.
| Quote: | Gentoo and Microsoft set out to achieve different things by Intellectual Property protection.
Briefly, Microsoft licences restrict sharing and use. Gentoo licences encourage sharing and use.
Perhaps an anacdote will help here. In the UK, a certain software distributor was raided. They were found to be dupicating copies of a Linux distrubtion licenced under the GPL. The copies and their equipment were confiscated. The authorites contated the FSF, who told them that was quite all right, they didn't want to press charges and please give the distributor their copies and equipment back. Now suppose that had been Microsoft software ? |
Assuming that the distributor was charging money for the copies, I would expect Microsoft to prosecute had the copies been of Microsoft products.
| Quote: | | Gentoo IP protection exists to ensure the rights under the licences are protected, in the same way as Microsoft IP protection exists. Its just the licences that are being enforced are so different. |
The protection is from government agencies, and the rights under licence are civil, not natural. The natural right of fair use can be defended by showing evidence of plagiarism or other unfair use to the target market of the offending party.
| Quote: | With that understood, lets move on to Digital Rights Management.
First, its my understanding that Digital Rights Management as it exists today is not Copyright Protection or even close.
Copyright is an exchange. The author/owner of a work is granted copyright in exchange for 'fair use'. Fair use extends to permitting the copy of small portions of a protected work for study, critisism or reference. Digital Rights Management today thwarts any such permitted copying, thus users are robbed of their rights under copyright. As I say, thats a personal view. |
I disagree, in that I think that the exchange is disclosure for temporary control of the commercial use of the copyrighted work. Fair use is use in which equity is preserved. I understand that this means that any benefit arising from the use of a creative work is conveyed to the author and the immediate user in proportion to the value of the work of each of the parties.
| Quote: | | As the licences are so different, Gentoo has no need of DRM in an attempt to manage its IP. To be fair to Microsoft, DRM came about from pressure for the entertainment industry, not themselves. I recall one open source software project trying to implement DRM to support such entertainments industry material but I don't know what happened to it. |
The question in my mind is: why would Microsoft bow to such pressure when that behaviour opposes the fundamental principle of commerce of providing your customer with value?
It is my contention that Gentoo should be a trust, and that trusts do not fit within the corporate model well. Trusts are based on equity (i.e. that which is fair and even), and fair use is central to the ethics of open source software. In contrast, corporate entities are bound by the dictates of government, and this opposes the ideal of free use of open source software.
Regards, CP |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54216
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Colonel Paneek,
I can see this debate going on for some time but its not the topic of this thread, which is to discuss the news item.
If you wish to continue, a post on the gentoo-nfp mailing list would be a better place to hold the discussion.
Feel free to quote anything I have said here in a post to that list.
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Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Colonel Paneek
n00b
Joined: 06 Mar 2003
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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NeddySeagoon,
If the debate was off-topic then why did you participate? |
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energyman76b
Advocate
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 2048
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Colonel Paneek wrote: | NeddySeagoon,
If the debate was off-topic then why did you participate? |
because short bouts of off-topic are ok. But if it becomes chronic, it is time to go elsewhere. And your not-covered-by-reality-position is something that can and does start a lot of discussion. So time to transfer it elsewhere. Its own thread or even better, the right mailing list, where people who are interested in that stuff are concentrated.
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54216
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Colonel Paneek,
I was expecting a brief exchange only.
Also I would like the other trustees to see and maybe participate in this discussion.
We all read gentoo-nfp. Not everyone will be reading this thread.
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Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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Colonel Paneek
n00b
Joined: 06 Mar 2003
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| NeddySeagoon wrote: | Also I would like the other trustees to see and maybe participate in this discussion.
We all read gentoo-nfp. Not everyone will be reading this thread. |
I emailed a subscription to the list a day or 2 ago and have yet to see a response.
I think that this issue is quite relevant to developer relations, since free software licensing, even the CCSA license, promotes unethical use of software. The ethical problem is due to the license endorsing unfair use. Ideally the developers should receive a fair share of any transferable benefit arising from the use of their work.
While is said that the love of money is the root of all evil, this is untrue. An excessive estimation of the importance of money isn't a good thing, but that doesn't mean that money does not have a valid role as a means of exchange of value. |
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NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 54216
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Colonel Paneek,
Any message to | Code: | | gentoo-nfp+subscribe at lists dot gentoo dot org |
should get you and automatic please confirm response.
If your problems continue, please PM me with the email address you would like subscribed and I will try to get it fixed.
Its possible your spam filter does not like the auto response.
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Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
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swimmer
Veteran
Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 1330
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: |
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Back to the topic:
"Thank you very much for the hard work you invested trustees!!!" |
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