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Hamsterkill
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 81
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 Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| juangiordana wrote: | I'm running 2007.0 on my development server at home and it goes really smoothly, but I need to setup a couple new dedicated servers for the people I work for and I prefer going with the latest release instead than upgrading from the previous version. In fact, I have to run 5 setups (4 servers - 1 at home -, and my desktop) which means 5 upgrades.
I've been delaying these setups because of the release problems and I'm almost sure that if the people I work for see this topic they will not fill as confortable as I am with Gentoo and they may make me choose another distro, which means that I will have to deal with yum or aptitude for a couple years. NO.
Having all these delay problems makes me feel (just a feeling) that the project isn't going as well as any other distros and makes feel uncomfortable by the fact that if we are dealing with this unsolved delay issues, what could happen if tomorrow there are no more developers interested in continuing with the project?
Please, don't take this personal. I just wanted to add my point of view as a proud user. Proud after all. |
Remember that once installed, Gentoo is versionless (as compared to other distros' sense of "version"). A rather painless profile update is all that would be required when 2008.0 comes out. Right now the major issue with 2007.0 is that the stages for installation are out of date, and when a user goes to update world, a bunch of blockers are already there that they have to figure out how to resolve. The only other issue with 2007.0 is the release media doesn't support newer hardware from the past year.
The number of devs working on Gentoo is pretty darn large and its community is as well. I don't see Gentoo becoming a dying distro very easily and certainly these release delays are no indication of such. |
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96140
Retired Dev
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 1324
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| d2_racing wrote: | In fact, the newbies need a good handbook and a minimal CD that is up to date.
I'm sure that we lost some peoples because of that right now. |
Stop spreading FUD right now, please.
There is nothing wrong with the handbook, as it is kept up to date -- and the minimal liveCD is only a couple of months old.
There haven't been huge sweeping hardware changes for major platforms that require more frequent updates. The last time I can think of a needed CD update was to support the PATA/SATA combo controllers introduced on the earliest motherboards for Intel C2D, back in mid 2007. There hasn't been a similar sweeping hardware platform change since then, and certainly not anything since 2008.0_beta2 that warrants your demand for new media.
Again, kindly lay off the baseless criticism and speculation. |
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srunni
Guru
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 365
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| nightmorph wrote: | | d2_racing wrote: | In fact, the newbies need a good handbook and a minimal CD that is up to date.
I'm sure that we lost some peoples because of that right now. |
Stop spreading FUD right now, please.
There is nothing wrong with the handbook, as it is kept up to date -- and the minimal liveCD is only a couple of months old.
There haven't been huge sweeping hardware changes for major platforms that require more frequent updates. The last time I can think of a needed CD update was to support the PATA/SATA combo controllers introduced on the earliest motherboards for Intel C2D, back in mid 2007. There hasn't been a similar sweeping hardware platform change since then, and certainly not anything since 2008.0_beta2 that warrants your demand for new media.
Again, kindly lay off the baseless criticism and speculation. |
It's not FUD at all. I'm one of those people that he's referring to. I installed Gentoo on my new laptop in early January. The handbook was horribly out of date, as were the stages, requiring me to get a more up-to-date stage from Funtoo.org. Following the install, documentation for setting up basic things, such as wireless support and NVIDIA drivers were also extremely out of date. I ended up going on IRC and having people tell me "oh, this has changed or that has changed, but no one's bothered to update the documentation yet". So I went back to Kubuntu, because I had been using it before. All the hardware problems that I was having in Gentoo were absolutely no problem in Kubuntu. For example, the version of ALSA in Kubuntu Hardy has support for my Intel ICH8 sound card, whereas in Gentoo, there was no support unless I unmasked a testing version. This is an inexcusable lack of hardware support for one of the most common sound cards.
However, Kubuntu doesn't really suit me either, so I'm still looking for a different distro. I was hoping the 2008.0 release would resolve some of those problems. Evidently, it still has not, so I am continuing to use Kubuntu, and continuing to look for a new distro that will give me more control over the system yet have up-to-date documentation and hardware support. |
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xargos
n00b
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| nightmorph wrote: | | d2_racing wrote: | In fact, the newbies need a good handbook and a minimal CD that is up to date.
I'm sure that we lost some peoples because of that right now. |
Stop spreading FUD right now, please.
There is nothing wrong with the handbook, as it is kept up to date -- and the minimal liveCD is only a couple of months old.
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Wow... insulting users? That's a little harsh.
It isn't FUD. The handbook isn't bad, but the last non-beta is more than a few months old. A lot of people who are looking at trying a product of any type are not going to jump on one called a beta. It suggests that the product isn't fully tested and isn't ready for use.
When developers snap at users for a little reasonable criticism, I find that more of a turn off than the so-called "FUD." |
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Monkeh
Veteran
Joined: 06 Aug 2005
Posts: 1656
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| nightmorph wrote: | | There haven't been huge sweeping hardware changes for major platforms that require more frequent updates. The last time I can think of a needed CD update was to support the PATA/SATA combo controllers introduced on the earliest motherboards for Intel C2D, back in mid 2007. There hasn't been a similar sweeping hardware platform change since then |
Quite a few P35 boards will spit fire at 2007.0. I doubt a P45 (just coming out) would work half as well. The P35 is one of the most popular chipsets around..
I don't think beta 2 works on one of my P35 boards, a board which dates back to just after 2007.0 was released. |
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gcasillo
l33t
Joined: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 739
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| kalos wrote: | I don't know if the GTK+ / GUI / LiveCD / installer, or whatever else you would like to call it, has been a complete nuisance. I'm glad that it is an option for new users, but personally I don't think it is very Gentoo-esque. In my opinion, and I have no numbers to back up this claim, the majority of people who would really like to use Gentoo and who would get the most out of the Gentoo experience, will want to install via the CLI. If that would boost efficiency in the release cycle, it might be something to consider. However, I think it's wonderful that there are those individuals that have devoted so much time to creating the installer and if they want to continue, that's great too.  |
Here here! I have felt this way since the post-2004 LiveCDs. I was attracted to and amazed by combination of thoroughness and simplicity in those early installers. Great documentation all the way. I don't want a framebuffer or X11 desktop when I'm installing. I just want to install. |
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Hamsterkill
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 81
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Since you're in this thread, nightmorph, I was wondering what the releng team think about the beta process used for this release. Is it something they intend to do again for the next one? It seems like with the beta process it may only be possible to do one release a year rather than two. |
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noyzilla
n00b
Joined: 19 Aug 2007
Posts: 5
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yngwin
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4572
Location: Suzhou, China
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i92guboj
Bodhisattva
Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 10315
Location: Córdoba (Spain)
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| Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Merged two posts above. |
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96140
Retired Dev
Joined: 23 Jan 2005
Posts: 1324
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Hamsterkill wrote: | | Since you're in this thread, nightmorph, I was wondering what the releng team think about the beta process used for this release. Is it something they intend to do again for the next one? It seems like with the beta process it may only be possible to do one release a year rather than two. |
Yeah, one of the things we want to do is keep opening up the release process the way we started this time, with public betas and such. Normally, beta processes don't take this long; certainly not for previous internal beta releases. But this year was not a normal year; lots of stuff happened that just hasn't before.
Anyway, there was much more I could have said, to everyone else in thread, especially to the nay-sayers, doom'n'gloomers, and the folks who rant about outdated handbooks without providing a shred of evidence, but instead, I'll just point HERE. With big, bold caps.
Oh, and here, for your world-class up-to-date reading pleasure. Gotta have something to read while downloading the stages, right?  |
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dberkholz
Retired Dev
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 1008
Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
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think4urs11
Bodhisattva
Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 6659
Location: above the cloud
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| Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: Re: 2008.0 is out! |
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Thus locked
Please follow the link given by dberkholz
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Nothing is secure / Security is always a trade-off with usability / Do not assume anything / Trust no-one, nothing / Paranoia is your friend / Think for yourself |
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