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dberkholz
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:17 am    Post subject: [NEWS] Nominations open for foundation board of trustees Reply with quote

This forums thread is for discussion of the www.gentoo.org posting, "Nominations open for foundation board of trustees." Post your comments and suggestions here.

Quote:
The election for the new trustees of the Gentoo Foundation is almost here! There is an open call for nominees; any voting members of the Gentoo Foundation may be nominated. That means any Gentoo developer, past or present, who has at least one year of experience in Gentoo is eligible. Election officials are Łukasz Damentko, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto, and Richard Freeman. The infrastructure team contact for the election is Shyam Mani. The election officials have published all the information on the election including a list of voting members of the Gentoo Foundation.

To get more manpower to the foundation as quickly as possible, this election will have an accelerated time frame of two weeks for nominations and two weeks for voting. Nominations end Tuesday, Feb. 12. The election polls will then open Wednesday, Feb. 13 and close Wednesday, Feb. 27.

To nominate a worthy candidate, join the gentoo-nfp mailing list. Trustee nominations are open to the public; voting is limited to Gentoo Foundation members. Send all your nominations, acceptances and feedback to the gentoo-nfp list.


Last edited by dberkholz on Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mmm
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The links in the story pointing to the election officials etc don't show up in the RSS feed (http://planet.gentoo.org/rss20.xml).
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nichoj
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue with links and other HTML showing up in the feed is a known issue. Sounds like it will be fixed soon though.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the O.T. question, but I have been looking for information on how to become a developer for gentoo and have found no information what so ever. I don´t know if I have been looking in the wrong places, but is it possible for someone reading this thread to tell me? I can then give any information about myself to the relevant people.
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dberkholz
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

compres wrote:
Sorry for the O.T. question, but I have been looking for information on how to become a developer for gentoo and have found no information what so ever. I don´t know if I have been looking in the wrong places, but is it possible for someone reading this thread to tell me? I can then give any information about myself to the relevant people.

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?part=1&chap=2
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/staffing-needs/
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would vote, but I don't know these people, or anyone to nominate for that matter. Is there an area that shows:

0. What the job entails,
1. people who would be interested in the job.
2. people who have been nominated, what their qualifications are.
3. a short resume or bio showing why they can do the job.

It all sounds fantastic, but I really don't know what these elections are about... Where do I find out?
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dberkholz
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iplayfast wrote:
I would vote, but I don't know these people, or anyone to nominate for that matter. Is there an area that shows:

0. What the job entails,
1. people who would be interested in the job.
2. people who have been nominated, what their qualifications are.
3. a short resume or bio showing why they can do the job.

It all sounds fantastic, but I really don't know what these elections are about... Where do I find out?

The "all the information on the election" link in the original post. I asked one of the election officials to link to the main foundation page from there.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for all the other people whose first thought when reading this news snip was "Sounds like drobbins is going to get nominated here", he wrote a bit about it himself ... seems there is a bit of a mistake in the description of who can be nominated on the front page.
As I understand it Daniel is not, as the rules are right now, able to become nominated as trustee.
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iplayfast
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So as I understand it, not being a developer, I can't be nominated and I can't vote, and have no say this.

So why was this on the front page again?

It's not like I have anything to actually say about who is being nominated or voted for, but it seems strange to me that it was felt that the election for the new trustees needed an open call, yet, to be a voting member of the Gentoo foundation you must be a developer.

Ways that I've helped Gentoo without being a developer are:
1. Bug reports. Not always useful but sometimes are.
2. Forum helping of others. (Ok I'm not a great help here)
3. paying for the distro. (OK, my payment went to D Robins because I was upset that he was in debt 20K helping this distro)
4. promoting Gentoo as a distro. (Yes I've done seminars at the local lug on how gentoo works)

It seems to me that there is more to the Gentoo community then just developers. I don't really have an opinion on the developers who are nominated, but I wonder if developers are the right people to have being trustees. Everyone is busy and being a developer (of projects other then Gentoo) I understand that developers have less time then most people. Developers always have something on the back-burner that should be looked at. I'm thinking that a trustee position would be back-burnered by a developer whereas a non-developer may have more time to attend to the job.

Reading the foundation doc http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/#doc_chap4 it looks like the trustees are there to vote on topics. I suppose that the reason for having trustees is that it is too difficult to have votes from the masses, because it would slow everything down. The things that are voted on are very broad topics; Intellectual Property Protection, [obtaining financial] Support [for] the Gentoo Development, Oversee adherence tot he Social Contract. These topics are not really development topics, they are more legal and financial topics. Why would Gentoo put developers in charge of these topics? I don't know.

I have a feeling that these ruminations are not original, and that others, including the trustees have had the same thoughts. (as evidenced by the news of the open call for nominees). I think that this is one of the things that trustees should be voting on. Perhaps opening up the trustee and voting position to anyone who has been recommended by a current voter, in the spirit of the web of trust.

I'm not looking for a trustee position, I just thought I would put my thoughts down here for others to view, and flame as needed :)
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rane
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every user can nominate. So can you. That's why it's there. Along with other reasons like this being Very Important Event for Gentoo Community.
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dberkholz
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iplayfast wrote:
So as I understand it, not being a developer, I can't be nominated and I can't vote, and have no say this.

So why was this on the front page again?

Because a lot of people care about the foundation, since they got all excited about the trouble it's having. It's news. Not everything can be a call to participation -- some things are just information.
Quote:
It's not like I have anything to actually say about who is being nominated or voted for, but it seems strange to me that it was felt that the election for the new trustees needed an open call, yet, to be a voting member of the Gentoo foundation you must be a developer.

I don't know why it was set up this way either. I think it's confusing.
Quote:
Ways that I've helped Gentoo without being a developer are:
1. Bug reports. Not always useful but sometimes are.
2. Forum helping of others. (Ok I'm not a great help here)
3. paying for the distro. (OK, my payment went to D Robins because I was upset that he was in debt 20K helping this distro)
4. promoting Gentoo as a distro. (Yes I've done seminars at the local lug on how gentoo works)

Thanks for all you've done!
Quote:
It seems to me that there is more to the Gentoo community then just developers. I don't really have an opinion on the developers who are nominated, but I wonder if developers are the right people to have being trustees. Everyone is busy and being a developer (of projects other then Gentoo) I understand that developers have less time then most people. Developers always have something on the back-burner that should be looked at. I'm thinking that a trustee position would be back-burnered by a developer whereas a non-developer may have more time to attend to the job.

Reading the foundation doc http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/#doc_chap4 it looks like the trustees are there to vote on topics. I suppose that the reason for having trustees is that it is too difficult to have votes from the masses, because it would slow everything down. The things that are voted on are very broad topics; Intellectual Property Protection, [obtaining financial] Support [for] the Gentoo Development, Oversee adherence tot he Social Contract. These topics are not really development topics, they are more legal and financial topics. Why would Gentoo put developers in charge of these topics? I don't know.

Developers have to trust the trustees (get it? =) to take care of Gentoo's IP and to devote money to the right things. They trust people they've known for a long time, and those people are developers. Gentoo doesn't have the money to hire an executive director, which is basically a professional at this who would take care of the everyday things.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dberkholz wrote:
iplayfast wrote:


Reading the foundation doc http://www.gentoo.org/foundation/en/#doc_chap4 it looks like the trustees are there to vote on topics. I suppose that the reason for having trustees is that it is too difficult to have votes from the masses, because it would slow everything down. The things that are voted on are very broad topics; Intellectual Property Protection, [obtaining financial] Support [for] the Gentoo Development, Oversee adherence tot he Social Contract. These topics are not really development topics, they are more legal and financial topics. Why would Gentoo put developers in charge of these topics? I don't know.


Developers have to trust the trustees (get it? =) to take care of Gentoo's IP and to devote money to the right things. They trust people they've known for a long time, and those people are developers. Gentoo doesn't have the money to hire an executive director, which is basically a professional at this who would take care of the everyday things.


Yes I do get that developers need to trust the trustees. What I don't get is the assumption that developers cannot trust non-developers, especially about things which don't involve development. Gentoo doesn't have the money to hire professionals, understood. If there are 100 users for every developer, maybe one of those thousands of users would be better qualified, and more able to be a trustee. I'm not suggesting something radical here, I'm suggesting that part of the problems of the past, is due to the concept that only developers would care or be trustworthy enough to handle a trustee position.
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alistair
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iplayfast wrote:
These topics are not really development topics, they are more legal and financial topics. Why would Gentoo put developers in charge of these topics? I don't know.


In gentoo, developers don't have to develop. Look at the forum "developers", infra team or public/user relations, developers are (really) just "special, trusted contributors". We even have separate quizzes so ppl don't have to answer development related questions when they ain't working in those area's.

Now my main problem with opening the doors to everyone, is (exactly what everyone would expect) trust. Sadly iplayfast, I have witnessed none of your contributions ( not to belittle them in anyway). I could verify some of your claims (ie the forum and bug one's) reasonably easily but others are all bar impossible for me to confirm. What would happen if a "user" became a trustee on claims of being a lawyer in New Mexico and only afterwards admitted (or was discovered) to have lied. It is not the removing of their status thats the problem, it is what they have done while they had it.

Also there are certain requirements about when a developer can become a trustee. I, for example, have not been a developer for long enough. How under reasonable (and consistent) guidelines would we determine how long a "user" ( really should use the term "non developer" ) should be involved with the project before they can be trusted.

And now for the other argument, that users should be allowed to vote for the trustees. ( which I support in principal ).

The problem with this is simple, security. Obviously we want to restrict any voting population to only our users (and possibly only 2 our users that have been users for a while). How would we do that? How would we telly the users votes? Developer votes are easy as they require the developer to log into their gentoo account on dev.gentoo.org. But the general public is a lot harder. How many email addresses do most ppl have, for instance.


Sadly this post is rather incomplete. im at work and really need to get back to doing just that, but hopefully you have gotten _my_ point :)

Alistair.

ps. It would be great if lawyers and other non-technical ppl could contribute to the project in ways that allowed them to become "developers". currently I could only think of the documentation or PR teams as being there door into the project. Maybe that is something we need to work on.

pss. It would also be nice if we could have some sort of "super user" group, a group that can demonstrate their knowledge of gentoo, there commitment to helping out, etc). That would/could open a lot of possibilities.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

count me in:

I nominate / vote for Daniel Robbins as a Trustee :idea:

@dberkholz: Thanks, Donnie for stepping up & playing the main violine :)
From what I've seen & read, you're doing a great job so far
++ all the other developers / non-developers involved in gentoo foundation, etc etc :)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was already nominated and he already refused. Also, all nominations must be sent to the gentoo-nfp mailing list to be valid.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He was already nominated and he already refused.


oh, that's a pity :o

Quote:
Also, all nominations must be sent to the gentoo-nfp mailing list to be valid.


sorry for that :(
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No need to be sorry. I'm just informing you what happened.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rane wrote:
He was already nominated and he already refused.


In fact, you can read the answer here : http://blog.funtoo.org/
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d2_racing wrote:
rane wrote:
He was already nominated and he already refused.


In fact, you can read the answer here : http://blog.funtoo.org/


already read that, thanks

and here his direct answer on the mailing list:
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-nfp/msg_69f1aacf7c96923b7e6faa1eaa7cb0b1.xml

perhaps next time he'll accept when he's/it's possible to have "fun" in working with the others :(
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, maybe one day.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm very happy to see some long gone action return to the Gentoo project and its community!

For me Gentoo still stands out as one of the most transparent distros around.

As for the elections: my vote would go to the most unselfish candidate.

Do you have a Super Tuesday as well?

Weed to the world and Gentoo to the community!

Aznach
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iplayfast wrote:
It seems to me that there is more to the Gentoo community then just developers. I don't really have an opinion on the developers who are nominated, but I wonder if developers are the right people to have being trustees. Everyone is busy and being a developer (of projects other then Gentoo) I understand that developers have less time then most people. Developers always have something on the back-burner that should be looked at. I'm thinking that a trustee position would be back-burnered by a developer whereas a non-developer may have more time to attend to the job.


I want to look at ways of opening up the elegibility critera for Gentoo foundation trustees (if I'm elected).
However, we have to have this election under the bylaws and precedents as they are today.
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