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[NVIDIA FREEZES SYSTEM] an AGP 4x/8x problem (SOLVED)
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pathfinder
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: [NVIDIA FREEZES SYSTEM] an AGP 4x/8x problem (SOLVED) Reply with quote

Edit: SOLVED: the card was defectuous!!! Once changed, great with 100.14.19 nvidia drivers!
-----------------------------------------------------
Hi guys,

I ve got a really annoying problem with a card I bought. My motherboard is AGP 4x and this card is 8x.
So they told me it wouldn t be a problem, the card would just work at 4X and that s it.

I ve done so far all the tests one could imagine. It s definitely not working. There IS a problem with the AGP 4X setting.

the club3d team sent me this mail

Quote:

Sometimes changing AGP speed improves stability. Some motherboards do not handle current generation AGP cards well. AGP 4x setting and AGP sideband addressing switched off may help also disable AGP fastwrite (motherboard BIOS settings).



The problem is my system (i updated the BIOS too) is not able to tune any these settings (checked with the Dell technical support)


And the last lat last chance is to tune this by the kernel.
Is this possible? Is there a way?


here are the lspci and kernel config:
Quote:
milkyway linux # cat .config | grep AGP
CONFIG_AGP=y
# CONFIG_AGP_ALI is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_ATI is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_AMD is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_AMD64 is not set
CONFIG_AGP_INTEL=y
# CONFIG_AGP_NVIDIA is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_SIS is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_SWORKS is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_VIA is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_EFFICEON is not set


Quote:
milkyway linux # lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE/PE DRAM Controller/Host-Hub Interface (rev 01)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE/PE Host-to-AGP Bridge (rev 01)
00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) USB UHCI Controller #1 (rev 01)
00:1d.1 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) USB UHCI Controller #2 (rev 01)
00:1d.2 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) USB UHCI Controller #3 (rev 01)
00:1d.7 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 82801DB/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-M) USB2 EHCI Controller (rev 01)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev 81)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation 82801DB/DBL (ICH4/ICH4-L) LPC Interface Bridge (rev 01)
00:1f.1 IDE interface: Intel Corporation 82801DB (ICH4) IDE Controller (rev 01)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 82801DB/DBL/DBM (ICH4/ICH4-L/ICH4-M) SMBus Controller (rev 01)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: nVidia Corporation GeForce 7600 GT (rev a2)
02:02.0 Multimedia audio controller: Creative Labs [SB Live! Value] EMU10k1X
02:02.1 Input device controller: Creative Labs [SB Live! Value] Input device controller
02:08.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82801DB PRO/100 VE (LOM) Ethernet Controller (rev 81)


If you need anything else...

the kernel version is
Quote:
# uname -pmrs
Linux 2.6.22-gentoo-r2 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz


The computer is old, with a 64Mo card. That s why I had to change it in order to use it for a couple of years (even 4)...
I bought the only nvidia (See ATI reticent compatibility with compizfusion) card with PCI (not PCI-e) and 256Mo...

But the system always freezes randomly when the card is used (TV, DVD, video, 3D games). Pacmanarena and neverball being the TESTERS: in 1sec time the system s just frozen. Same happens in windows, in ubuntu, with a new gentoo freshly installed, with a genkernel, with different kernel versions.

Not a temperature problem, not a power problem, not an IRQ conflict:
Quote:
# cat /proc/interrupts
CPU0
0: 14834214 XT-PIC-XT timer
1: 1643 XT-PIC-XT i8042
2: 0 XT-PIC-XT cascade
3: 92375 XT-PIC-XT eth0
6: 5 XT-PIC-XT floppy
7: 18071 XT-PIC-XT ehci_hcd:usb1
9: 2778797 XT-PIC-XT acpi, uhci_hcd:usb4, EMU10K1X
10: 3890 XT-PIC-XT uhci_hcd:usb3
11: 4633287 XT-PIC-XT uhci_hcd:usb2, nvidia
12: 2674 XT-PIC-XT i8042
14: 120164 XT-PIC-XT ide0
15: 533779 XT-PIC-XT ide1
NMI: 0
ERR: 0


I ve really looked EVERYTHING and some Great Gys helped me finding the trouble: the card is the problem. but i need to be sure the AGP4X solution is not possible before trying to change it, as there is no possibility to get another one of such specs.


If you could help me on that point (the message in RED and its kernel implications), I d be so glaaaaaad

Have all a nice day


Last edited by pathfinder on Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kiksen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could try removing intel agp support from your kernel and use nvidia's (built into the kernel). Maybe you can force it with
Option "NvAGP" "1"

in your xorg.conf Device section for your card. My bet would be you'll have to compile a kernel without the intel agp driver.

HTH

/kiksen
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pathfinder
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but the nvidia one is for the Nforce chipset, isn t it?
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kiksen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You should not select *any* AGP driver in your kernel. nvidia-drivers should take care of it with the NvAGP option. At least it's worth trying.

/kiksen
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pathfinder
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do you mean that I should disable ALL the AGP support in the kernel?

Quote:

milkyway linux # cat .config | grep AGP
CONFIG_AGP=y SHOULD THIS BE SET TO NO?
# CONFIG_AGP_ALI is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_ATI is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_AMD is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_AMD64 is not set
CONFIG_AGP_INTEL=y THIS ALSO?
# CONFIG_AGP_NVIDIA is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_SIS is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_SWORKS is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_VIA is not set
# CONFIG_AGP_EFFICEON is not set



And then let nvidia-drivers manage the thing?
with maybe an appropriate flag in xorg.conf?
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pathfinder
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-8174/README/32bit_html/appendix-f.html

i m reading this, this is interesting. Had no clue about it. I might have some alternatives now.
Thansk a lot.


Quote:

milkyway ~ # cat /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/card
Fast Writes: Supported
SBA: Supported
AGP Rates: 4x 2x 1x
Registers: 0x1f:0x1f
milkyway ~ # cat /proc/driver/nvidia/agp/host-bridge
Host Bridge: PCI device 8086:2560
Fast Writes: Supported
SBA: Supported
AGP Rates: 4x 2x 1x
Registers: 0x1f:0x



i should try to disable AGP, see what happens
then change the kernel options and check them against the ubuntu one (seems all the kernels detected the same settings)
then force the 4x speed, though it seems to be 4x as a setting as explained in the link.

Quote:
The following AGP chipsets are supported by NVIDIA's AGP driver; for all other chipsets it is recommended that you use the AGPGART module.


Quote:
Supported AGP Chipsets
Intel 440LX
Intel 440BX
Intel 440GX
Intel 815 ("Solano")
Intel 820 ("Camino")
Intel 830M
Intel 840 ("Carmel")
Intel 845 ("Brookdale")
Intel 845G

Intel 850 ("Tehama")
Intel 855 ("Odem")
Intel 860 ("Colusa")
Intel 865G ("Springdale")



my lspci says
Quote:
# lspci
00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE/PE DRAM Controller/Host-Hub Interface (rev 01)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82845G/GL[Brookdale-G]/GE/PE Host-to-AGP Bridge (rev 01)


so i guess it is supported? it s not exactly the same...
so i disable the AGP in the kernel, but the intel one AND the AGP support?
in the kernel help it is said that I should say YES to the AGP support if I want to use DRI or GLX
What should I do?
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pathfinder
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bad news...


tried without AGP INTEL but with AGP support and AGP NVIDIA MODULE, NO WAY (module loaded or not)
same but AGP NVIDIA built in, NO WAY

(but the game lounches and instead of freezing in 0.5 sec it's about 2 secs... sometimes 5)


then tried with both described and xorg.conf forcing NvAGP option... same results.


still have to try with NO AGP support at all... (but I remember it was needed for other things in my config, such as fbcondecor and splashutils...)
and forcing the Nvidia AGP in xorg.

Still have to try with new nvidia drivers (....)



Should I disable the AGPSUPPORT in the kernel at all?
Should I enable it with the nvidia-agp support in the kernel as a module?
Should I disable everything in the kernel and let the xorg.conf do the job?


What exactly happens when I emerge nvidia-drivers? Does that create a patch for the kernel and put the module built in the modules.autoload?
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kiksen
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, disable agp support in kernel. If you need framebuffer support, use vesa or vesafb, but get your graphics working before you try any of that.

/kiksen
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pathfinder
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,


bad news...
I disabled AGP support in kernel (I mean: /etc/init.d/xdm stop, rc-update del xdm defaults, emerge -C nvidia-drivers, rm /lib/modules/2.6.22xxxx/nvidia.ko, cd /usr/src/linux, ..., mount /boot, ... new kernel entry in grub.conf,... rebooted the computer)
lsmod -> no nvidia module loaded (ok)

then mount /boot and cat /boot/confignoagp | grep AGP -> nothing in AGP

then emerge nvidia-drivers
lsmod (i think no nvidia was loaded)
xdm start
neverball or neverputt or pacmanarea or movies or TV or whatever using video -> system frozen.

then rebooted, lsmod and modprobe nvidia if not loaded, xdm start, and again, crash

I did this with no AGP support at all in the kernel

Should I try now with AGP support and Nvidia chipset in the kernel? (I did it, though no with such rigor in my checks at each step)
should I change the .run.sh of nvidia as explained in the nvidial guide?
Quote:
AGP Rate

You may want to decrease the AGP rate setting if you are seeing lockups with the value you are currently using. You can do so by extracting the .run file:

# sh NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-8174-pkg1.run --extract-only
# cd NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-8174-pkg1/usr/src/nv/

Then edit os-registry.c, and make the following changes:

- static int NVreg_ReqAGPRate = 7;
+ static int NVreg_ReqAGPRate = 4; /* force AGP Rate to 4x */

or

+ static int NVreg_ReqAGPRate = 2; /* force AGP Rate to 2x */

or

+ static int NVreg_ReqAGPRate = 1; /* force AGP Rate to 1x */

and enable the "ReqAGPRate" parameter:

- { NULL, "ReqAGPRate", &NVreg_ReqAGPRate, 0 },
+ { NULL, "ReqAGPRate", &NVreg_ReqAGPRate, 1 },

Then recompile and load the new kernel module.
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kiksen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest you leave AGP support out of the kernel and follow the nvidia guide.

/kiksen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kiksen wrote:
I suggest you leave AGP support out of the kernel and follow the nvidia guide.

/kiksen


I've similiar issues which are yet unresolved. Just a note: genkernel does not seem to allow you go disable AGP. I could be wrong, but is what it looks like to me. I'm seen this on the 2.6.20 and 2.6.23-r3 kernels.

--
DWW
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kiksen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. Don't know about genkernel, I've never used it.

/kiksen
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pathfinder
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that s my very last chance.
I left AGP support out of the kernel and I followed the Nvidia guide. No way to work (still have to change manually/force the speed)

am i f*cked?
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kiksen
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know. I'm out of ideas - we're way past the problems I've ever had :(
Someone else may be able to help?

/kiksen
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:18 am    Post subject: Could be incompatible with APG voltage Reply with quote

I remember quite a while back I had a similar problem with higher order AGP cards.
You problem could be hardware, even though "they" said it would be fine.

This has some info:
http://www.neoseeker.com/Hardware/faqs/kb/10,63.html

cheers
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to ask, and I apologize if this is a dumb question, does your card have a 4-pin molex power connecter? and do you have it plugged in?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no molex power... :)

fatcop: that s great,... i m reading a lot... this could be THE problem
i m trying to find out with Club3d, dell to know more and get explanations with the voltage power.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Question


Which NVIDIA video cards support the AGP 1.5 volt spec that my motherboard requires?
Answer


The Geforce family and Quadro family based cards can operate at AGP 1.5 volts. Some of the older Geforce and Quadro cards follow the AGP 2.0 spec (AGP 4x and AGP 2x) meaning they will operate at 1.5 volts or 3.3 volts. The newer video cards follow the AGP 3.0 spec (AGP 8x and AGP 4x) meaning they will operate universal at 1.5 volts and .8 volts. This operation is negotiated automatically and is not a user defined option.

For more information please contact your card vendor.



from http://nvidia.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/nvidia.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=72&p_created=1097182603&p_sid=Bt84PxBh&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfcm93X2NudD0xOTYmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=
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pathfinder
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

answer from the vendor:
Quote:
GeForce 7600GT SHOULD work fine on AGP 2.0.

If you suffer from instability and regular BIOS adjustments on motherboard level are not solving the problems, you can look into driver and BIOS updates for your motherboard. If this is also not improving your results I strongly suggest to check the card in a second system (not identical).

If the issues are gone, you probably have a motherboard not supporting the GeForce 7600GT very well. Please try this.


I updated the BIOS to the latest version. I tried everything.
I now have to plug this card in a pretty old system (hardest part) with neverball or pacmanarena to see whether it freezes the system (playing movies or 3D apps would do the same but in a longer time)


Dell also told me my mobo was an AGP2.0 one (AGP4X at 1.5Volts)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well after much reading I believe I've sorted out my Vid-card issues. Apparently the Tyan Tiger K8W S2875 mobo has very very pick AGP. It was recommended that you use only the vid-cards on the Tyan website for that particular mobo. So I took that advice and bought a used ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb card. I'm now 3 days and not a single freeze up. So I can say I'm quite happy. Now I've got to sell my Sparkle Geforce 9700 512mb vid-card as it is a big useless to me now.

So to wrap things up for me: Nvidia was not the specific source of my issue, but rather is pick AGP chipset.

--
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pathfinder
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

update:

I tried the vid card on another PC, with AGP8x mobo.
No way for it to work nor in Linux nor in Windows.

The card is the DLWK JOPEGIOPJWE^?D
I called the RMA 3 or 4 months ago and he told me "no way the card is not ok: I ve sold tons of these cards and none has returned with a single problem: it must be something else, keep looking".


So my question will be more general:

would you mind, guys, emerging neverball and check whether it bugs in your computer? Would you mind trying in Linux and in windows?
I tried in 3 different PCs in Windows, it runs well.
But I tried in 2 other PCs with my vid card, and it crashed every time...


As for the nvidia vendor (Club3D), here is his reply (many thanksfor your valuable help and patience)
Quote:
Dear,



Considering all your tests, looks you did not forget anything, it is very likely the GeForce 7600 card is defective. Please return the card to your store for RMA.




This does not mean a new card (provided it still exists) would work fine, because there still might be incompatibilities in voltage. But at least, I am fixed for this one, and there is one little little little hope that, in case they find another 7600GT AGP card, (or better, but must be nvidia and AGP), the card could work on my ssytem.

Thanks to you all.
(not solved until new card confirms everything or neverball statistics come here)
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi guys, just an update...
they confirmed the card was damaged. (imbéciles!)(iif they had listened to me 6 months ago...)

Now the card has been sent to the fabricant, and they ll decide whether they have to change it or repair it (!!!!!!!!!?????? I don t want it to be repaired! Isn't there a big probability of not repairing it correctly!?).

well, I fear I ll have to wait, roughly 3 weeks, then we ll see.

----
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pathfinder
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys,
for those still reading this post, I apologize, cause I don t have any news. It's just because I noticed the post were removed when not being read nor edited for a while, so I am just going to refresh it a little.
y next post will have answers regarding the card.
I have 3 possibilities:
- the new card (hope it s a new one) works like a charm
- the new card is not compatible with my computer (and I ll have to deal with the solutions)
- the new card is being damaged by my system due to a voltage incompatibility (is it possible?)

Actually, 4:
- they haven t repaired the card properly and it is still buggy (that s why I plan to make them try it in front of me, in the same RMA dept.

I have 33% of chances the card will work. Not too much :S

Anyway, it's been more than 3 weeks and they told me yesterday it would be a month. G|@#~@½|@#

Patience...

Another question: in the case the card works perfectly, I would love to change the graphical display (Dell 1702 FP). Do you think it will work well (I mean, the display is ruled by the card power, isn t it? will be there problems due to my old arch? P4 2Ghz, 1Go RAM

Then, do you think it is better to buy a TV 26'' or a PC TFT 26''?
TRhe resolution is different, and I don t know the time response differences...
I would love something wall adaptable, and with really THIN borders.

Is there a model you would advise me? Do you prefer FLAT TVs or PC TFT? (TV are cheaper I think, for a smaller res)

What is the 1080p thing? Is my card able to use it?
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pathfinder
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK
I finally received the new card.
They changed it, it was defectuous. They also told me they tried with neverball again, and that it was working well now.

I ll give a try this afternoon after work and I ll give you feedback.
Hope this will soon be solved!

And HOPE there won t be incompatibility voltage between my mobo and my card (AGP 2 vs AGP3)
Then, my question is:

Do you prefer LCD flat panels for computers or LCD TVs pugged to the computer?

I want a 26 or 32 inches. But with a great quality...
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congratulations on receiving a new card, hopefully it will work.

For me, I prefer an actual monitor instead of a TV. But it depends on what you want to use it for. I have a TV to watch movies on, and computer to do "computer stuff" :)
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