| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Should the Gentoo trustees accept Daniel Robbins offer? |
| yes |
|
91% |
[ 638 ] |
| no |
|
8% |
[ 58 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 696 |
|
| Author |
Message |
bmichaelsen
Veteran
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 1276
Location: Hamburg, Germany
|
 Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | | "... maybe ..." is exactly my point. |
Welcome to life, it would be boring if everything was a safe bet. Actually, nothing is.
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | What is new is that this developing situation has been raised as an issue that needs to be fixed quickly.
But does it ? |
Yes. The current state of gentoo allows no progess. All major "new" projects are dead, stalled or moved out of gentoo. Baselayout2/OpenRC, PMS/EAPI, Stage4/Seeds are some examples. Without progess the only force working on gentoo is friction.
Without some leader (drobbins or somebody else) giving the project a direction gentoo's fate is sealed. Not the immidiate death of the project. Worse: It wil slowly degrade into irrelevance.
_________________
etc-proposals, your friendly config file updater! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
MoonWalker
Guru
Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 423
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AllenJB wrote: | | NeddySeagoon wrote: | | The Foundation is charged with looking after Gentoos Legal interests and holding Gentoos assets. I'm not aware if its supposed to be as transparent as the council but it doesn't appear to be in practice. However, nobody should conclude that the Trustees are doing nothing because it appears they are not communicating. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. |
I feel it would be beneficial to the community if they just put out something to say "we're aware of the situation and we are dealing with it" at the very least |
I hate to be a pesimist, but from what history tell we probably cannot expect that as nothing probably is done.
_________________
/Joakim
Living on earth is expensive, but it includes a free trip around the sun
every year. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atrus123
Guru
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 339
Location: Annapolis, MD
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
They should absolutely accept drobbins' offer!
_________________
"I cannot support a movement that exploded spending and borrowing and blames its successor for the debt."
-Andrew Sullivan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ronmon
Veteran
Joined: 15 Apr 2002
Posts: 1043
Location: Key West, FL
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dear Trustees,
Please accept Daniel's offer and allow him to rescue our beloved distribution.
Thank You,
From a long-time dedicated user.
_________________
Ask Questions the Smart Way - by ESR |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LD
Guru
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 329
Location: Middle of No-Where Granbury, Tx
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Needy,
As of now, due to the Foundation trustees falling behind as it were the Foundation has already fallen. I can't say I agree with you or nightmorph for the reasons against Robbin's taking the reigns again. Fact is, that the foundation was charged with tending to the legal and organizational aspects of Gentoo. the Council may not have anything to do with that, but the body that tends to Gentoo's non-profit status and other important legal issues has fallen already. THat much can be cleared up by checking publicly available records for the status of the Foundation.
No we shouldn't conclude that the trustee's are doing nothing based only on their lack of communication. We should conclude they are doing nothing because as of this time they have allowed the Gentoo foundation to for all legal purposes cease to exis and seem to not be doing anything to remedy this fact.
No disrespect to the devs, but fact is the main page is horribly out of date on many things. Documentation is not being updated at even a minuscule pace. The most up to date information is being kept on gentoo-wiki.com and even then that is only as good as the last guy to update the specific wiki page you are looking for.
I still think it was a horrible idea to completely abandon official support for the stage 1 install but that is my opinion. However the fact is that the current official tarballs haven't been updated since they were first really rolled up for the 2007.0 profile set. Whether that is a failure of the devs or the Foundation or the Council I don't know. Fact is we have half a dozen points for information on no less then three websites.
rambam, I don't know if that would be a problem. If anything commecialization of Gentoo might actually be a boon for us, as it has been for Red Hat, Suse, and the buntu's. They certainly aren't having any major problems when it comes to leadership and the like of the projects involved. If anything they are getting a lot more help.
Fact is folks, there is a lot needing to be done just on the legal and organizational side of the equation first to even worry about Robbin's screwing with the devs. The major fact is that right ow on paper and apparently in fact the foundation is gone. A board of trustee's without any Trustees is useless to everyone. Fact is, while some problems on the devs sides may have been building since 03, the legal problems the Foundation should have dealt with could have been as easily fixed as maintaining proper paperwork and keeping to the official legal deadlines.
What needs to be fixed first is obvious. The fact there has only been one rollup of stage tarballs in 2007 is a big black mark against the maintains of the tarballs, like it or not. This is where I stop with the no disrespect part as this is where the devs have failed. Every project involved in Gentoo is doing it's own thing to develop only their part of it, there is no coordination, no crosstalk, nothing. We need updates on the main page for ALL documentation involved in at least first time setup to include the install how-to and various others where information now may in fact be so out of date as to require complete rewrites. There needs to be someone telling the devs and keeping everyone on schedule or if not that at least on task. We need capable folk supporting all stages of the project and doing it properly.
Fact is, this started as Mr. Robbin's baby, and whether you like to admit it or not we have not tended to it well at times to include now.
_________________
[Owner/Operator: Dhampir Dreams]
Last.fm profile
Netflix Profile |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 27780
Location: 56N 3W
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
LD,
| LD wrote: | | We need updates on the main page for ALL documentation involved in at least first time setup to include the install how-to and various others where information now may in fact be so out of date as to require complete rewrites. There needs to be someone telling the devs and keeping everyone on schedule or if not that at least on task. We need capable folk supporting all stages of the project and doing it properly. |
Who is the 'we' ?
What are you offering to do ?
Your distro needs you!
[With apologies to Lord Kitchener]
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LD
Guru
Joined: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 329
Location: Middle of No-Where Granbury, Tx
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | LD,
| LD wrote: | | We need updates on the main page for ALL documentation involved in at least first time setup to include the install how-to and various others where information now may in fact be so out of date as to require complete rewrites. There needs to be someone telling the devs and keeping everyone on schedule or if not that at least on task. We need capable folk supporting all stages of the project and doing it properly. |
Who is the 'we' ?
What are you offering to do ?
Your distro needs you!
[With apologies to Lord Kitchener] |
Now you are just being silly. The users of the distro who ust use what they want and rely on the devs and doc writers are just as much a part of this as anyone else. We need someone there as users who will keep things going for us, to make it understandable to us, and to help us get things working properly first time every time.
If you want me to start pointing out specfics of what I think needs to be done I'm more then willing to let my user's opinion be known.
Integrate the docs with Gentoo-wiki. That is the best idea right now, especially since the wiki is more up to date then every file on the doc page. If anything we should go through documentation/how-to's on the forum and load those into the wiki. If the main docs page isn't going to be maintained then lets consolidate down to one place for all doc needs. Gentoo-wiki.com is the best option for this. Obviously the main page is no longer a proper source of full information for the distro and that is now in the hands of sites like gentoo-wiki and gentoo-portage.
You are asking what I am OFFERING to do? I ask you if you have followed through on what you have already said you WOULD do.
_________________
[Owner/Operator: Dhampir Dreams]
Last.fm profile
Netflix Profile |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
atrus123
Guru
Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 339
Location: Annapolis, MD
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | LD,
| LD wrote: | | We need updates on the main page for ALL documentation involved in at least first time setup to include the install how-to and various others where information now may in fact be so out of date as to require complete rewrites. There needs to be someone telling the devs and keeping everyone on schedule or if not that at least on task. We need capable folk supporting all stages of the project and doing it properly. |
Who is the 'we' ?
What are you offering to do ?
Your distro needs you!
[With apologies to Lord Kitchener] |
There are those of us who have wanted to get involved in Gentoo for a while but not wanted to find ourselves tangled up in the politics of a distro that really has no direction or leadership. I tried getting involved in the documentation project a year or so ago, but I never received any answers to my queries from the contacts listed. I know there were other avenues I could have taken, but I assumed they probably didn't need me. This was before I understood everything that was going on underneath.
So really, LD's point is well taken, and who is to say that he wouldn't get involved with Gentoo under a different--more structured--climate. Right now, I'm not sure if I'd want to get involved. If Robbins comes back and starts making a real difference, then who knows?
_________________
"I cannot support a movement that exploded spending and borrowing and blames its successor for the debt."
-Andrew Sullivan |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ExecutorElassus
l33t
Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 637
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Great googly moogly, what the hell happened to p.g.o? No search, and it's virtually unreadable. My computer has been totally off-line since August (moved overseas, long story), and I was just about to install Gentoo on the laptop I'm getting Monday. Then I saw this on /.. Man, it makes me really sad. I love Gentoo; it's far and away the best distro I've ever used, both for the software and the community.
LD: I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I don't think this is really a point where we can sit around and be saying, "but we need more information!" Guys, I run a Foundation, too, and if you miss state deadlines, you get dinged with fines (at least you do with tax deadlines in NY, not sure how it is in NM). Letting it slip for so long, to the point that the organization ceases to exist, is negligence of the highest sort. We don't need to look for any communication from the trustees; frankly, there's nothing they could say that I would believe.
"hey guys, our bad. Sorry we didn't file any paperwork for three years and got the Foundation's charter revoked. But it's all good, y'know? Just, like, chill. We're on it."
Sorry if I sound angry; I'm really upset that a project and a community I really loved is now stumbling so badly.
But then, if the Foundation does not exist, and drobbins was the last legal representative of said Foundation, couldn't he simply file the paperwork himself, without waiting for the (cynically, I suspect never forthcoming) answer to his offer from the trustees? In any case, I'm all for it: I really don't want to put *buntu or something on this shiny new laptop.
Cheers,
EE |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
d_adams
Apprentice
Joined: 20 Oct 2003
Posts: 223
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I already see the flame war starting.
I'm personally all for Daniel coming back.
Maybe it's just me, but what I'm seeing (over 90%) is that the users want Mr. Robbins back as a president/leader/dictator and (correct me if I'm wrong here) the devs/forum admins/current leaders don't want him back.
What could possibly go wrong? It's not like the current leaders are doing anything except letting things slide. And before I get asked "What are you doing for Gentoo?", I donated cash money. I'm not a programmer, I have NO clue how to write up help docs or anything like it. I probably couldn't even fix an ebuild unless my life depended on it and I had a week to study how it's done so that I wouldn't muck it up royally. I know how to read and utilize the forums. I try to help when I can, but most of my time is spent searching for answers myself on how to fix broken crap (ie; expat anyone?) on my machine.
For those of you that are just reading this, VOTE! It might help.
_________________
http://www.1and1.com/?k_id=16196755 click me for cheap linux based web hosting.
Last edited by d_adams on Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
@alexander
Retired Dev
Joined: 16 Jul 2004
Posts: 24
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gentoo has lost focus. Strong leadership sounds like a good thing at this point. I hope Robbins offer is accepted
_________________
http://wrongplanet.net (my website)
Last edited by @alexander on Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ibn al-Hazardous
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 133
Location: Somewhere deep in the desert.
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| NeddySeagoon wrote: | LD,
| LD wrote: | | We need updates on the main page for ALL documentation involved in at least first time setup to include the install how-to and various others where information now may in fact be so out of date as to require complete rewrites. There needs to be someone telling the devs and keeping everyone on schedule or if not that at least on task. We need capable folk supporting all stages of the project and doing it properly. |
Who is the 'we' ?
What are you offering to do ?
Your distro needs you!
[With apologies to Lord Kitchener] |
Even stuff that has been delivered, and which was sorely needed, has gone unpublished (eg the reasons for the cancelation of 2007.1 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/54138 - read the paragraph that start "PR:"). It's not that nobody is offering to do anything. It's that we all know that if we do something - it'll surely remain unused.
As for "everything working", I can't see that everything is working. What'll happen when it's time to renew the domain? What happens if someone starts Gentoo Inc and steals the trademark? If there is noone to defend the trademark, we'll lose it. And drobbins was apparently still president of the foundation right up until it ceased to exist (despite insurances that it would be resolved 6 months ago).
If you have seen this situation escalating for three years, and not done anything or said anything - why should we listen to you now?
Sure, there are reasons not to give the reins to drobbins - but your arguments are only making him look like the better alternative.
_________________
/Ibn |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
drsound
n00b
Joined: 20 Sep 2004
Posts: 10
Location: Italy
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I don't know about legal matters, but as a Gentoo user during last times I see it very bad on a technical basis: I think somebody should take some directions, indicate some targets and choose priorities. I know every developer works on a voluntary basis but I think it wouldn't be good if one day the council (or some other leader, anyway) would say: "hey guys, please stop working on less important things and please dedicate your time fixing this, this and that, in the interest of the whole Gentoo community". Just few examples, the first coming to my mind: as today glsa-check it's still regarded as an experimental tool, several equery funtions are still unimplemented, packages.gentoo.org was offline for several months and now is back WITHOUT search function (so basically useless)... come on! I think if devs would concentrate on specific tasks (instead than moving randomly like now), things would be much fastly fixed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bmichaelsen
Veteran
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 1276
Location: Hamburg, Germany
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AllenJB
Veteran
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 1282
Location: Ashford, Kent
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| percy wrote: | | Well, this is partially true. But apparently, since the Foundation is in crisis, the whole thing is affected. The newsletter is/was never updated - and where's the Gentoo 2007.1 ? It's already 2008. |
It got cancelled, but nobody got told because PR and GWN are effectively dead.
Also, the poll needs an "I am not informed enough to make an informed decision on the issue" option.
----
| bmichaelsen wrote: | | http://tsunam.org/2008/01/12/in-response/ |
I agree with everything tsunam says there.
_________________
http://gentoo-wiki.com :: http://lug.org.uk :: http://www.linux.org/groups/ :: User Blogs
Last edited by AllenJB on Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AllenJB
Veteran
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 1282
Location: Ashford, Kent
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| MoonWalker wrote: | | I think one should be clear about one thing, even if Drobbins comes back as President, it doesn't mean he will be in the possition of being an almighty dictator. here surely will have some power over things, but before he left he made sure to decentralize the Gentoo power structure so no one could come in and just "take it over" with some smart actions. |
I have to disagree with you. I think he effectively would be a dictator. Have you actually read his terms on his blog? He effectively says "You'll allow me to do what I want, but I'm not going to tell you what I want to do before you make a decision".
_________________
http://gentoo-wiki.com :: http://lug.org.uk :: http://www.linux.org/groups/ :: User Blogs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
redshift
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 98
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'd love to have Daniel back. I would vote for Daniel as president of the Foundation and, if not leader of the council, then at least a strong voice.
Gentoo needs direction and someone who can push for its goals. I haven't seen that since he left. I followed the dev list for a long time and I could see things starting to choke a few years ago.
To be honest, I find it hard to believe the attitude I'm seeing from some of the official Gentoo representatives. He did create Gentoo, you know. He knows what he's doing technically and he knows how to get a great project going in a great direction. We wouldn't be where we are today if he hadn't made a lot of smart decisions. I think he'd put in a lot of time doing what's needed to revive the community, the distribution, and the foundation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AllenJB
Veteran
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 1282
Location: Ashford, Kent
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| d_adams wrote: | | For those of you that are just reading this, VOTE! It might help. |
I disagree. The poll ultimately means nothing more than 90% of the people here, the vast majority of whom only have a tiny inkling if anything of what's going on behind the scenes at Gentoo (and while I consider myself to know more than many, I still consider myself not even nearly educated enough on this issue to make an informed decision).
If anything, it could be bad. The current remaining trustee's and council might let drobbins back, then when it all goes wrong point to the poll and say "but you lot asked us to let him back". While I don't think this would happen, I still consider it a risk.
Personally I think the poll should be removed from this thread. This issue needs to be debated, not polled.
_________________
http://gentoo-wiki.com :: http://lug.org.uk :: http://www.linux.org/groups/ :: User Blogs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AllenJB
Veteran
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 1282
Location: Ashford, Kent
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| redshift wrote: | | To be honest, I find it hard to believe the attitude I'm seeing from some of the official Gentoo representatives. He did create Gentoo, you know. He knows what he's doing technically and he knows how to get a great project going in a great direction. We wouldn't be where we are today if he hadn't made a lot of smart decisions. I think he'd put in a lot of time doing what's needed to revive the community, the distribution, and the foundation. |
He also did come back before... for 2 days, basically leaving in a huff as soon as some friction occurred. That isn't what we need right now. We need to resolve this situation first time, or Gentoo risks losing more users (I've already seen some saying they've begun migrating systems from Gentoo due to the recent issues) or worse, collapsing altogether.
_________________
http://gentoo-wiki.com :: http://lug.org.uk :: http://www.linux.org/groups/ :: User Blogs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rich0
Developer
Joined: 15 Sep 2002
Posts: 92
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bmichaelsen wrote: | | http://tsunam.org/2008/01/12/in-response/ |
++ ++ ++
I'm not convinced that the right decision on something like this is going to get made in 1 week. If drobbins had a plan of some sort that would be one thing - but his approach is:
1. Appoint me in charge
2. Know in advance I'll appoint replacements for any positions with legal authority
3. I won't promise anything other than the fact that leadership will be decisive, and that paperwork will get filed on time.
Legally he could just turn gentoo into a commercial outfit, relicense all gentoo-copyrighted materials under any license he wanted, and do whatever with the distro. Sure, that would just lead to a fork, and things would be back in the state they are in now, except that we'd all be on forums.some-other-domain.org. I doubt that this is exactly what would happen, but I'm not keen on just turning over the reigns without a plan because ANYTHING-could-be-better-than-the-status-quo - I'm not convinced that this is entirely true (not that the status quo is ok).
We really do need to elect a full set of trustees, and they need to get the paperwork/etc taken care of expediently. Not necessarily in a week - but they should start the ball rolling ASAP.
About gentoo vascilating between options and picking neither - I agree that this is true in many cases, but I don't think we're entirely doomed here. Keep in mind that just making huge controversial choices isn't without cost as well. I'm guessing that the first thing drobbins would do is completely ban cirianm from just about any involvement - and quickly ban any devs that proxy for him if they don't "shape up quickly." Now, I'm not the world's biggest fan of Cirian's tact (or complete lack thereof), or tendency to tick off just about EVERYBODY who isn't in COMPLETE agreement with him - but at least he is actually writing new code for what should be core components of the distro. There has to be some kind of happy medium - and until somebody with a nicer personality is willing to fork paludis/etc (or otherwise improve portage to a point where nobody feels the need to replace it) we probably just have to deal with him.
Ultimately stuff like install media doesn't get done because nobody is stepping up to do it. If you really are frustrated and don't want the hassle of being a dev, then maybe at least you could bundle up your own. However, if you have the aptitude I'm sure the appropriate team would take you on board (and it isn't like devs HAVE to get involved in political arguments - most just do their thing day-to-day quietly).
Sure, action is needed - but we also need leaders who can work with the people under them. Appointing a dictator that will cause an overnight mass-dev-exodus will just lead to major pain (and probably a fork). Sure, I think that more needs to be done to communicate with end-users and keep them happy - but the fact is that a distro where 90% of the users are happy and 90% of the devs are ready to quit won't be viable for long - you need to have both (and a distro can exist without users far more effectively than without devs - the whole scratch-an-itch thing - not that this is ideal).
In short - I think we need more thinking and less panic. The current mess does need some cleanup, but we're already seeing positive developments. There is interest in reviving the GWN in monthly format and automating the routine parts of it to make it a little less painful to distribute (personally I'd be happy to just drop everything but the articles if that would make it easier on the editors - that is what most users probably care about anyway, and the rest could be slowly added back as it can be automated). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
albright
Veteran
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 1763
Location: Near Toronto
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Debate is good - but the spectacular level of agreement
about getting DR back is very interesting, and should
inform the debate ... (and no, I don't think that it is at all
plausible that pro DR gentooers are more likely to vote than
anti DR gentooers)
_________________
.... there is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth
doing as simply messing about with Linux ...
(apologies to Kenneth Graeme) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
NeddySeagoon
Administrator
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 27780
Location: 56N 3W
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
redshift,
drobbins did not provide direction and goals for all of Gentoo when he was Chief Architect.
Like the rest of the volunteers, he did what he was interested in.
I agree with AllenJB that the poll needs another button - its up to the original posted to fix that.
_________________
Regards,
NeddySeagoon
Computer users fall into two groups:-
those that do backups
those that have never had a hard drive fail. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trae
n00b
Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 54
Location: Finland
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| AllenJB wrote: | | d_adams wrote: | | For those of you that are just reading this, VOTE! It might help. |
I disagree. The poll ultimately means nothing more than 90% of the people here, the vast majority of whom only have a tiny inkling if anything of what's going on behind the scenes at Gentoo (and while I consider myself to know more than many, I still consider myself not even nearly educated enough on this issue to make an informed decision).
If anything, it could be bad. The current remaining trustee's and council might let drobbins back, then when it all goes wrong point to the poll and say "but you lot asked us to let him back". While I don't think this would happen, I still consider it a risk.
Personally I think the poll should be removed from this thread. This issue needs to be debated, not polled. |
As I mentioned earlier, the poll reveals us one thing: the enormous lack of trust in the current leadership. That in itself is a major problem. If I were a president and 94% percent of the people wanted me out of the office, that would be a huge failure on my part, even if I knew I was 'right' and everyone else just misinformed.
Of course, 250 voters is just a minuscule part of the whole community. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
octoploid
n00b
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 65
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
IMHO Daniel made some very bad decisions in the past (leaving gentoo, working for MS)
and there is no way for him to restore his original reputation.
His current offer seems like a desperate attempt to make himself relevant again,
but it is going to fail, because he has been out of touch for too long.
The best thing that could happen, would be a fork by the paludis people.
They have the expertise and knowledge to build something powerful
from this collapsing distribution.
_________________
Myself and mine gymnastic ever |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kernelOfTruth
Watchman
Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 5345
Location: Vienna, Austria; Germany; hello world :)
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | In short - I think we need more thinking and less panic. |
we all need to calm done, yes, that's one thing,
but people in charge need to act soon - what have they done in the last 3 years, btw (?) - otherwise gentoo will get into legal problems and that's for sure (if some closed-minded lawyer gets his hand on gentoo's domain, e.g.)
what's so bad about a benevolent dictator anyway ? you see linus and the linux-kernel, there are things which need to be decided in a certain time period; if decisions need to be made there's the probability that one thing / project has to be dropped in favor of the other - for good
I don't get it why a lot of you are so negative about Daniel becoming / being gentoo's new/old "boss" for some time and setting it on the "right" track (!= sinking)
was his behavior that arrogant and harassing ? I read the posts on the mailing lists in question and it didn't appear to be that offensive
you have to consider that he once was / is the creator of this whole everything around gentoo - shooting one's own's flesh isn't all too good after all, don't you think 
_________________
Unofficial minimal livecd x86/amd64 w/reiser4+truecrypt (by Neo2)
2.6.37.2_plus_v1: BFS, CFS,THP,compaction, zcache or TOI
Hardcore Linux user since 2004  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
Gentoo Chat
