Should the Gentoo trustees accept Daniel Robbins offer?

platojones · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:30 pm Post subject:

Well, I hope it is obvious that Gentoo needs some leadership and soon. We've had some great people involved, but I have no doubt that Gentoo takes a lot away from those involved with little compensation (maybe, an occasional attaboy). Daniel, no matter what anybody thinks of him, seems to be willing to step up and take over what looks to be an albatross around everybody else's neck. If the facts are what he claims (and I'm not claiming that the current trustees are in any way guilty of anything but trying to have normal lives), then they should probably turn it over to someone who understands the issues, and wants to tackle them. That person is clearly Daniel Robbins. This isn't a technical job, it's a management job and he showed he at least had that when he started Gentoo. If the current trustees disagree, they do need to step forward and explain why.

L4in · n00b Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Posts: 17

i'm not sure i need more information. Just the comparison of how was the project with robbins and how is now is enough for me...
Trustees must accept the offer imo...

ps · n00b Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Posts: 31 Location: /usr/portage

platojones · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject:

hollerith · Apprentice Joined: 21 May 2004 Posts: 204

What is the problem exactly?

bmichaelsen · Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:53 pm Post subject:

ps · n00b Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Posts: 31 Location: /usr/portage

thanks bmichaelsen

If I understand correctly, Daniel is offering exactly what is required to solve this dilemma, and get things back on track as they should be.

ps

ryker · Guru Joined: 28 May 2003 Posts: 412 Location: Portage, IN

Digg this thread so more people find out about it and participate in the discussion.
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bmichaelsen · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: Re: Problem? What problem?

NeddySeagoon · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:24 am Post subject:

ps,

Nope, drobbins is offering to fix the perceived problems without saying how, by when, with whose help at what cost and so on.
I'm old and cynical, to me it appears like a little like a politican promising 'jam tomorrow' without saying how they will deliver.

Hes asking Gentoo to just 'Trust Me' and I don't see any grounds for having that level of confidence that he can deliver what he appears to be offering.
I'm not suggesting he can't either. Much more information is required.
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ryker · Guru Joined: 28 May 2003 Posts: 412 Location: Portage, IN

ps · n00b Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Posts: 31 Location: /usr/portage

NeddySeagoon,

I hear you, and I understand. But it seems to me that there is going to have to be some level of trust somewhere.

I'm a supernoob, and I'm reading about lots of conflict. The tech side seems to be overburdened, at least in some parts - portage-tools, sparc, GWN.....

I don't know what went on there in the past. But there seems to be some issues with Daniel - some mistrust or something. I don't know the facts. I do know that we (people in general) are more sensitive than we would like to be, and we don't heal as quickly as we would like to heal.

Maybe some sincere apologies are required somewhere too. Hopefully someone is going to trust someone with something somewhere.

ps

Unne · l33t Joined: 21 Jul 2003 Posts: 616

I'm largely in favor of benevolent dictatorship. I'm largely uneducated as to the details of this situation (which is why it's good that my opinion, like most of our opinions in this thread, isn't going to matter much to anyone) but logically someone who ran the distro for a good while and helped it to prosper in his time is likely to be at least as good as anyone else to run it again.

The distro does seem to be working fine and I still love to use it, but at the same time it often seems to be falling apart at the seams or grinding to a halt in certain areas (no GWN, lack of frontpage updates, frontpage redesign disaster, package manager battles, developer exodus or at least perceived exodus, the foundation expiring and trustees quitting(?), horrible lack of communication, etc.). It'd be nice to have one voice to either motivate and direct things to be done, or to make a decision where decisions can't be reached by consensus. The decisions might not please everyone, but any sometimes decision is better than no decision.
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StifflerStealth · l33t Joined: 03 Jul 2002 Posts: 952

*puts politician voice on*
If you elect me as President of the Trustees, I promise to pull some strings and get this legal challenge solved within my first week. The documentation would be filed on time every year and we would never need to go through this again. Then we can start to rebuild the trust with the Gentoo Linux user base. The user base may have some issues of trust with the current Trustees because of lack of communication. I would have a page set up that would explain all motives of the Trustees and other going-ons. Communication and information will be key. Gentoo developers will work hand-in-hand together and if disputes were to come along, I would personally sit down with all parties to try to work anything. Users could come to me directly if they had issues. After that, I will claim to have no knowledge of who hacked the Gentoo Linux Forums, but I will swear it was Debian and we will declare war on them. The citizens of the Debian community will happy with our occupation and it shouldn't take too long to oust the current Debian leaders and replace them with our own people. The occupation should only take a few months, but we will be welcomed with open arms. If anyone tries to oust me as president, I would have no problem with a martial law.

So elect me for a new tomorrow where there will be other distro but Gentoo ... literally.

/Joke

Sorry. Someone had to poke fun at the whole wanting to be president thing. Hope this makes some laugh.

marcion · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:38 am Post subject:

Where is the option for Ciaran McCreesh or Cowboyneal?

How about Gentoo becomes a the apt-source version of Ubuntu?

Oh the post is not a joke? Well let's vote yes anyway for a laugh,,,

wolfden · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:11 am Post subject:

This thread will end in disaster

We need more discussion on helping and being positive for production. Do you see anyone else posting help? Do you see anyone else posting ideas? The negativity is all over the web and within the community. Leaders are saying Gentoo is not dying, we are changing. I believe Gentoo will live, but at what costs if something isn't done? You have developers and users leaving and if you have followed along, the reasons for some of them leaving should never have happened.

It's been a long time coming, sooner or later you can't hide the alarms.

ps · n00b Joined: 11 Jan 2008 Posts: 31 Location: /usr/portage

m.s.w · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:04 am Post subject:

I am the one who was called here "OMGZOR, Drobbins is back and s@v3s Gent00!!"

Sure, everybody may not care about what is going on with Gentoo as long as "emerge -uD world" is doing something. But it is wise to watch for the future. I think, that for a long time people know that there is a problem with Gentoo. We don't exactly know what kind of problem but we all see it and feel it. This information about Gentoo Foundation is just another bad sign, another symptom. In my opinion even if Mr. Robbins offer will not be accepted, his offer will be something that pushed people to actually do something about the situation.
Answering "NO" to Mr. Robins offer " without making real changes in the way things are going on with Gentoo means that somebody just wants Gentoo to go down. There are many talented developers who can still do some work, but this is more serious that that.
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Frodo42 · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:18 am Post subject:

I have just been looking at bit through all of this and am wondering about one thing.
It seems to me that there is not going to be a meeting of the Gentoo Council until sometime in February and Daniel has set a deadline at the 18th of January to his offer.

Frodo42 · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:30 am Post subject:

timhoppen · n00b Joined: 12 Jan 2008 Posts: 2

Read the blog posts,
http://blog.funtoo.org/search/label/gentoo

Granted not all of them are about this, but it isn't too hard to scroll past. It looks like this took him by surprise just like it did with the users.

Also, did anyone else notice that gentoo.org hasn't had anything posted on the main page since last October 15th? That in itself suggests that things aren't being maintained on the "administration" end as well as they could be. I noticed that months ago, but thought nothing of it and forgot about it. I only searched for (and found) this thread after reading the entire blog sequence.

I never thought that I would make a forum account for a reason like this, but I guess that if I'm not doung it for myself, I might as well do it for the good of the community.

Have a good one all!

Bluespear

bunder · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:58 am Post subject:

oh boy... so now someone leaked it to slashdot... :roll:

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xming · Guru Joined: 02 Jul 2002 Posts: 402

I starting following (not using) Enoch closely back in the days, because I like the ways drobbins explained that they would be. In 2002 I finally switched to Gentoo and never left. I have even converted 5 of so Sparc64 from Solaris to Gentoo at work in production, and slowly converting some x86 to Gentoo and using them as server. Now I use Xen + Gentoo for work and at home.

Things have changed a lot since drobbins left, I guess Gentoo misses vision/motivation and got very slack. Now if you want the "bleeding edge" it's either super unstable or you can to hunt down the ebuilds from overlays or just do it yourself.

Drobbins, I welcome you back. Please give us the Gentoo back that it was meant to be.
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Grahammm · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:07 am Post subject:

If the foundation and trustees are not "delivering the goods", why not get rid of them and let the (elected) council run things. Gentoo is a community distribution, so let it be run by the community.