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gnac
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel I might as well:
Code:
emerge -e system
emerge -e system
emerge -e world
emerge -e world


like I had to do after upgrading gcc and glibc.

Of course in the four days it might take my system to do that, I could go out, build a new pc, and install some binary distro.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gnac wrote:
I feel I might as well:
Code:
emerge -e system
emerge -e system
emerge -e world
emerge -e world


like I had to do after upgrading gcc and glibc.

Of course in the four days it might take my system to do that, I could go out, build a new pc, and install some binary distro.


That procedure was what broke my system in the first place. It puked on libexpat when it reached the 3rd row...
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gnac
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so I
equery f packagename | grep "\.so" | xargs -n1 ldd | grep "not found"

every package in
Code:
media-gfx/digikam-0.9.1:
`-- media-gfx/digikam-0.9.1
 `-- media-libs/libgphoto2-2.2.1-r1
  `-- dev-libs/libusb-0.1.12
   `-- sys-devel/automake-1.10
    `-- dev-lang/perl-5.8.8-r2
     `-- sys-devel/libperl-5.8.8-r1
      `-- sys-libs/db-4.3.29-r2 [ berkdb ]
       `-- dev-lang/tcl-8.4.9 [ tcl ]
       `-- virtual/jre-1.6.0 (virtual/jre-1.4) [ java ]
        `-- dev-java/sun-jre-bin-1.6.0.02
         `-- sys-libs/glibc-2.5-r4
          `-- sys-devel/gettext-0.16.1 [ nls ]
           `-- virtual/libiconv-0 (virtual/libiconv)
           `-- dev-libs/expat-2.0.1


and the only one with problems, and lots of them was sun-jre-bin:
Code:
$ equery f sun-jre-bin | grep "\.so" | xargs -n1 ldd | grep "not found"
        libmlib_image.so => not found
        libawt.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libodbcinst.so => not found
        libodbc.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libmlib_image.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libawt.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
ldd: warning: you do not have execution permission for `/opt/sun-jre-bin-1.5.0.12/lib/i386/libj2pkcs11.so'
        libjava.so => not found
        libverify.so => not found
        libawt.so => not found
        libmawt.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
ldd: warning: you do not have execution permission for `/opt/sun-jre-bin-1.5.0.12/lib/i386/libnative_chmod.so'
        libjava.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libnet.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libmlib_image.so => not found
        libawt.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libmlib_image.so => not found
        libawt.so => not found
        libjava.so => not found
        libodbcinst.so => not found
        libodbc.so => not found
        libmawt.so => not found
ldd: warning: you do not have execution permission for `/opt/sun-jre-bin-1.6.0.02/lib/i386/libnative_chmod.so'
ldd: warning: you do not have execution permission for `/opt/sun-jre-bin-1.6.0.02/lib/i386/libnative_chmod_g.so'


which I rebuilt. But the above command still shows exactly the same output and of course digikam still doesn't work.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm usually a Gentoo Fan, BUT.. Reply with quote

extraketchup wrote:
I'm usually a Gentoo Fan, BUT it's things like this that really make me mad and frustrated. I was doing what should have been a simple a quick update, only to find out it ended up breaking the system and now I need to do all this tedious voodoo to make things work again. Surely there has to be a better way to handle these kinds of library updates. At the very least, Portage should warn us with a "WARNING - if you proceed with this emerge it will take a lot longer than normal and will require you to jump through 1000 hoops to get your system working again! Are you sure you want to do that right now?"

Anyone else feel my frustration?

I do feel yours. But you should also understand that Gentoo portage is facing a situation with two goals that are impossible to reach together at the same time.

Portage should be smart enough to handle dependencies so that you would have almost nothing to do to upgrade your system. In the meantime it makes the life of Gentoo developers harder for they have to work it out with thousands of packages; making it easy for users is OTOH making portage more sluggish because of the increasing checks to make before a package gets installed on your system. That makes portage not really up-to date.

Trying to work *all* dependencies out has an impact on usability and sluggishness. Fixing the second puts the problem on the user's side.

In one word, Gentoo's complexity and inherent blockings like this must be handled by us, the users. I understand your pain but I also know about the challenge in both the dev's and the users' side, given that level of complexity.

http://blog.funtoo.org/2007/08/resolving-sabayon-and-gentoo-peformance.html
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gnac
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

final straw, rebuilt digikam after rebuilding all packages above expat in

#equery g digikam

still didn't work. So I did the

ln -s /usr/lib/libexpat.so /usr/lib/libexpat.so.0

hack. Dammit, its a hack but if its not going to work any other way, I give up.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alanic wrote:
what does having two versions of a library have anything to do with a chain shared object dependency not being satisfied?


let's say we have installed two versions of the package: p-1 and p-2. this is allowed for many packages.

now, revdep-rebuild -X finds some unresolved deps in a binary belonging to p-1.

as we know, option -X forces revdep-rebuild to emerge packages based on their names, not versions.

question: which package(s) will be selected by revdep-rebuild -X to be remerged? my guess is that only p-2...
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
its a hack but if its not going to work any other way, I give up


I did the same thing before trying all that other stuff because I don't have time right now to mess with all that other stuff. I've had to do this (symlink) in the past without any side-effects that I'm aware of... As someone previously suggested, this problem will probably fix itself over time (I've seen this time and again), and at that point the symlink won't be needed. In the meantime, if everything works, what's the harm? My computer doesn't run anyone's life support or fly any airplanes :-)
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gnac wrote:
hack. Dammit, its a hack but if its not going to work any other way, I give up.

do you have th xeffects overlay enabled? if so, is it uptodate? I had some issues specifically with digikam during the expat upgrade. What I ended up doing was removing it from the system, ran --depclean, and followed that with a regular old revdep-rebuild -i. Once I was done getting the system back up, I remerged digikam and had no futher trouble.
Code:
emerge -Cav digikam
emerge -av --depclean
revdep-rebuild -i

whats interesting, is that this upgrade was a piece of cake on my x86 headless server :D not so much for my desktop.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question:

Is there a way to avoid these kind of things from happening? IMO the package manager should take care of everything that is needed to upgrade a package and fix the system if upgrading breaks it.

So why can't the package manager take care of rebuilding packages in these kind of situations? Basically integrating revdep-rebuild to package manager.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paapaa wrote:
So why can't the package manager take care of rebuilding packages in these kind of situations? Basically integrating revdep-rebuild to package manager.

My guess: limited developer time. Perhaps this will come some day, until then a wrapper script around emerge should work fine.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO the user shouldn't have care about broken libraries ever. The PM should make sure that the system works after installing/upgrading/removing a new package.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paapaa wrote:
IMO the user shouldn't have care about broken libraries ever. The PM should make sure that the system works after installing/upgrading/removing a new package.

No argument about that. But somebody would still have to implement and test that. Care to do it?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voltago wrote:
Paapaa wrote:
IMO the user shouldn't have care about broken libraries ever. The PM should make sure that the system works after installing/upgrading/removing a new package.

No argument about that. But somebody would still have to implement and test that. Care to do it?


At present my understanding on PMs is way too limited so no, I can't do now. At this point I'm just interested in if there is an actual limitation why these tools are separated or if there possibly exists another solution to overcome this issues - like SLOT dependencies? Of course, this probably must wait for EAPI=1.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paapaa wrote:
IMO the user shouldn't have care about broken libraries ever. The PM should make sure that the system works after installing/upgrading/removing a new package.
http://bugs.gentoo.org/66319

Not sure what the better proposals are, check bugzilla or ask around in #gentoo-portage perhaps.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm usually a Gentoo Fan, BUT.. Reply with quote

extraketchup wrote:
I'm usually a Gentoo Fan, BUT it's things like this that really make me mad and frustrated. I was doing what should have been a simple a quick update, only to find out it ended up breaking the system and now I need to do all this tedious voodoo to make things work again. Surely there has to be a better way to handle these kinds of library updates. At the very least, Portage should warn us with a "WARNING - if you proceed with this emerge it will take a lot longer than normal and will require you to jump through 1000 hoops to get your system working again! Are you sure you want to do that right now?"

Anyone else feel my frustration?


Absolutely! Why the HELL was this package not blocked on <expat-2.0.0 ??? Portage already has this feature to prevent exactly this sort of situation. It should not be possible for my Dad to have f'd up his system by doing a "sudo emerge -uD kino". At the very least it should have blocked. Better, it should have blocked and told him WHY and that forcing expat and following up with a revdep-rebuild would fix things but would take a long time.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm usually a Gentoo Fan, BUT.. Reply with quote

spamspam wrote:
Absolutely! Why the HELL was this package not blocked on <expat-2.0.0 ???

It was blocked for quite some time... but at some point, it has to be unblocked, and that point was a week ago. Sometimes upgrades cause ABI breakages, there's no way around that short of hanging on to the old version forever. If you use a source distro, you have to keep that in mind. The question you should rather ask is "Why the hell did I do a blind update?"

EDIT: Confused 'masked' with 'blocked' in this post. Sorry.


Last edited by Voltago on Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm usually a Gentoo Fan, BUT.. Reply with quote

Voltago wrote:
spamspam wrote:
Absolutely! Why the HELL was this package not blocked on <expat-2.0.0 ???

It was blocked for quite some time... but at some point, it has to be unblocked, and that point was a week ago. Sometimes upgrades cause ABI breakages, there's no way around that short of hanging on to the old version forever. If you use a source distro, you have to keep that in mind. The question you should rather ask is "Why the hell did I do a blind update?"

I contend, that the KDE 3.5.7 and the expat-2 updates should *not* have occurred at the same time. The version differences in updating both of these packages together is what caused my trouble.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm usually a Gentoo Fan, BUT.. Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
I contend, that the KDE 3.5.7 and the expat-2 updates should *not* have occurred at the same time. The version differences in updating both of these packages together is what caused my trouble.

Quite the reverse. Since many KDE (and Gnome) packages link to expat, it was very practical to stabilize them both at the same time, as you could spare yourself a lot of rebuilds. Worked well enough on several machines for me. What is that version difference problem you allude to?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gnac wrote:
final straw, rebuilt digikam after rebuilding all packages above expat in

#equery g digikam

still didn't work. So I did the

ln -s /usr/lib/libexpat.so /usr/lib/libexpat.so.0

hack. Dammit, its a hack but if its not going to work any other way, I give up.


all this means one thing: there are some library dependencies that portage does not know about. this is what you can do about it:

Code:
ldd /usr/bin/digikam


then for all the library names there one by one,

Code:
ldd library_name | grep "not found"


All these libraries that had some "not found" output is a potential enemy. They either are the source of the bad dependency or they depend on some other that is. What you want to do is to find the source and reemerge the ebuild that it belongs to (equery b library_name). So you can either compare the ldd outputs of these problematic library files to see who depended on who and reemerge the one that doesn't depend on any other, or reemerge all the packages with library files that have "not found" in their outputs.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voltago wrote:
Since many KDE (and Gnome) packages link to expat


Of course, needlessly. "-Wl,--as-needed" is very useful.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm usually a Gentoo Fan, BUT.. Reply with quote

Voltago wrote:
but at some point, it has to be unblocked,


No, it doesn't. There is still a conflict with the other version. It should have been left blocked but stable, thus indicating that upgrading would take some manual work, and preventing unplanned downtime, panic, and aggravation.

Voltago wrote:
Sometimes upgrades cause ABI breakages, there's no way around that short of hanging on to the old version forever.


Or leaving the new version blocked but stable, so people can get the new version in a planned manner. Blocked on <expat-2.0.0 does not mean you can't install it; it means it won't be installed by accident.

Voltago wrote:
The question you should rather ask is "Why the hell did I do a blind update?"


Because when it was unblocked it made it appear that whatevver issue had been making expat-2.0.0 block on older versions had been addressed with expat-2.0.1 . This is what blocked means; that there's a conflict with another package. Not blocked means no known conflicts, not we'd really like you to upgrade now.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:

do you have th xeffects overlay enabled?


Maybe I'll try unmerging et al, but bah.


alanic wrote:

Code:
ldd /usr/bin/digikam


Thats a lot of libraries:
Code:

linux-gate.so.1 =>  (0xb7fe2000)
        libdigikam.so.0 => /usr/lib/libdigikam.so.0 (0xb7cbe000)
        libsqlite3.so.0 => /usr/lib/libsqlite3.so.0 (0xb7c74000)
        libkabc.so.1 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkabc.so.1 (0xb7bc3000)
        libvcard.so.0 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libvcard.so.0 (0xb7b9f000)
        libkresources.so.1 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkresources.so.1 (0xb7b7d000)
        libkhtml.so.4 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkhtml.so.4 (0xb77ae000)
        libkjs.so.1 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkjs.so.1 (0xb7740000)
        libpcreposix.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpcreposix.so.0 (0xb773e000)
        libpcre.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpcre.so.0 (0xb7726000)
        libkipi.so.0 => /usr/lib/libkipi.so.0 (0xb76f9000)
        libexpat.so.1 => /usr/lib/libexpat.so.1 (0xb76dd000)
        libkutils.so.1 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkutils.so.1 (0xb767c000)
        liblcms.so.1 => /usr/lib/liblcms.so.1 (0xb7653000)
        libtiff.so.3 => /usr/lib/libtiff.so.3 (0xb760b000)
        libjasper-1.701.so.1 => /usr/lib/libjasper-1.701.so.1 (0xb75ce000)
        libkexiv2.so.0 => /usr/lib/libkexiv2.so.0 (0xb75b7000)
        libexiv2-0.13.so => /usr/lib/libexiv2-0.13.so (0xb74de000)
        libkdeprint.so.4 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkdeprint.so.4 (0xb7412000)
        libkparts.so.2 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkparts.so.2 (0xb73cc000)
        libkio.so.4 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkio.so.4 (0xb709e000)
        libkdeui.so.4 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkdeui.so.4 (0xb6dc5000)
        libkdesu.so.4 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkdesu.so.4 (0xb6daf000)
        libkwalletclient.so.1 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkwalletclient.so.1 (0xb6d9e000)
        libkdecore.so.4 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkdecore.so.4 (0xb6b66000)
        libDCOP.so.4 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libDCOP.so.4 (0xb6b33000)
        libresolv.so.2 => /lib/libresolv.so.2 (0xb6b21000)
        libutil.so.1 => /lib/libutil.so.1 (0xb6b1d000)
        libart_lgpl_2.so.2 => /usr/lib/libart_lgpl_2.so.2 (0xb6b0b000)
        libidn.so.11 => /usr/lib/libidn.so.11 (0xb6adc000)
        libkdefx.so.4 => /usr/kde/3.5/lib/libkdefx.so.4 (0xb6ab2000)
        libqt-mt.so.3 => /usr/qt/3/lib/libqt-mt.so.3 (0xb63d7000)
        libmng.so.1 => /usr/lib/libmng.so.1 (0xb6389000)
        libjpeg.so.62 => /usr/lib/libjpeg.so.62 (0xb6370000)
        libpng12.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpng12.so.0 (0xb6353000)
        libXi.so.6 => /usr/lib/libXi.so.6 (0xb634c000)
        libXrandr.so.2 => /usr/lib/libXrandr.so.2 (0xb6346000)
        libXcursor.so.1 => /usr/lib/libXcursor.so.1 (0xb633d000)
        libXfixes.so.3 => /usr/lib/libXfixes.so.3 (0xb6338000)
        libXft.so.2 => /usr/lib/libXft.so.2 (0xb6329000)
        libXrender.so.1 => /usr/lib/libXrender.so.1 (0xb6321000)
        libfontconfig.so.1 => /usr/lib/libfontconfig.so.1 (0xb62fb000)
        libfreetype.so.6 => /usr/lib/libfreetype.so.6 (0xb6292000)
        libxml2.so.2 => /usr/lib/libxml2.so.2 (0xb61a2000)
        libXext.so.6 => /usr/lib/libXext.so.6 (0xb6196000)
        libX11.so.6 => /usr/lib/libX11.so.6 (0xb60c4000)
        libSM.so.6 => /usr/lib/libSM.so.6 (0xb60bc000)
        libICE.so.6 => /usr/lib/libICE.so.6 (0xb60a7000)
        libpthread.so.0 => /lib/libpthread.so.0 (0xb6090000)
        libXau.so.6 => /usr/lib/libXau.so.6 (0xb608c000)
        libXdmcp.so.6 => /usr/lib/libXdmcp.so.6 (0xb6087000)
        libfam.so.0 => /usr/lib/libfam.so.0 (0xb607f000)
        libz.so.1 => /lib/libz.so.1 (0xb6070000)
        libgphoto2.so.2 => /usr/lib/libgphoto2.so.2 (0xb5ff9000)
        libexif.so.12 => /usr/lib/libexif.so.12 (0xb5fd4000)
        libgphoto2_port.so.0 => /usr/lib/libgphoto2_port.so.0 (0xb5fcd000)
        libltdl.so.3 => /usr/lib/libltdl.so.3 (0xb5fc7000)
        libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0xb5fc3000)
        libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/4.1.2/libstdc++.so.6 (0xb5ec8000)
        libm.so.6 => /lib/libm.so.6 (0xb5ea3000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib/libc.so.6 (0xb5d7d000)
        libgcc_s.so.1 => /lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0xb5d71000)
        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xb7fe3000)
        libexpat.so.0 => not found


I think I'll try jonnevers suggestion first. It might more compile time, but three commands is a heck of a lot easier than doing an ldd on 64 libraries and then fixing those individually. Perhaps I was better at sed.

ty
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Voltago
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm usually a Gentoo Fan, BUT.. Reply with quote

spamspam wrote:
No, it doesn't.

Sorry, I was thinking about 'masked' instead of 'blocked'. Yes, you are right, that blocking option would have been a possibility.
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gnac
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, I did a little creative copy and pasting to the "ldd digikam" output and was able to find the offender, libkipi.

Whats interesting is that libkipi was ready to be upgraded, but the re-emerging of digikam didn't pick it up.
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GODLiKE
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I decided to update my two linux systems (server and desktop) today, and I'm currently fixing some of the remaining problems on my server box, and then off again to my linux desktop (currently on windows since parts of my desktop were broken and could not afford the time off tonight :P).

I agree on the blocking thing. I think it's a simple solution until updating won't break things at this level. Please don't get me wrong. I would not like to put excessive strain on the Gentoo devs, that's why I propose a rather simple solution until either updating expat doesn't break half your system or there is another system or the like for handling these dependencies problems.

I repeat: don't get me wrong. I LOVE Gentoo, for me it's the best Linux distribution there is and I would'nt change it for anything, at least not on my desktop system (if sometime in the future I run out of time to maintain my server box I would have to use a binarized distro like Debian, but I hope that doesn't happen). And one of the things why I love Gentoo is Portage. I haven't found a better package management system, and while others like apt might be faster, the way Portage handles packages and dependencies is the best I've ever known.

Yes. Even with problems like these I still think Portage is the best pakage management system there is. It might not be user-friendly (in fact, Gentoo is not and does not aim to be a user-oriented distro like Ubuntu), it might not be the fastest, but IMHO, overall it is the best.

It does get some of these problems from time to time but hey, Portage is not maintaind by an alien AI, it's maintained by human beings, and human beings make mistakes. I think this kind of problem should be taken into account in order to provide solutions for future problems.

Just my two cents on the subject. Thank you for reading this.

Godlike.-
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