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Eugenia
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Location: Foster City, CA, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>If most IT departments prefer security, then why is Windows so >popular? Just something to think about when you assume that most people aren't morons.

You didn't understood a thing of what I was talking about, didn't you?

shm, thank you. :)
Indeed I am talking about a different kind of security. One that both Microsoft and Red Hat offer.
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karl11
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eugenia,
While I don't agree with you on a lot of things, we do agree on a few points here and there, and kudos for those times. However, I fail to see what you are trying to accomplish on this site by continuing this discussion. You have typically come out against linux and gentoo in general (one too many shameless plugs for beos and windows xp), and so that is why you are so negatively received here. If you weren't so pro-Microsoft, your reception would have been better. You make some valiant points, but to completely not believe that Gentoo won this year's poll is to be completely naive to the linux world and Gentoo's popularity. I use Gentoo because it's stable, easy to manage, and it just works. A lot of other people have found that out, and quite simply, that's why the votes for Gentoo are high. As stated before, Red Hat could put a link on their front page. Not every Gentoo user reads these forums either. And for a testament to how popular this distribution is, I help maintain a site called breakmygentoo.net, which has ebuilds for unstable packages. We are over 15,000 hits this month as of the 26th of May. So don't say there is no way Gentoo could have won this, and if you come to these forums, please have a definitive point instead of just trying to stir stuff up.

In all seriousness, you do a great job with OSNews and I want to let you know I appreciate your site. Hopefully, you'll take what I've said to heart.

Respectfully,
Karl
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Eugenia
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>However, I fail to see what you are trying to accomplish on this site by continuing this discussion.

I came here to reply to that guy who was writing bad things about me without *understanding* where I stand. He even wrote things like the "bad review of Gentoo", while my review back then was very balanced and well received back then even from the Gentoo developers back then. I came here to respond to this person who "didn't like me", not to start a fight.

>You have typically come out against linux and gentoo in general (one >too many shameless plugs for beos and windows xp), and so that is why >you are so negatively received here.

I am sorry, but not even you understand me.
I am NOT a Linux fan girl. I am an OS fan girl. This means that I am PRO-EVERYONE and AGAINST Everyone, at the same time. IF Windows does something better than linux (whatever that is), I will _have_ to write about it. If Linux does something better, I will _have_ to also write about it.
Your problem is that you do not accept the fact that even Microsoft or Apple or BeOS does *some* things right from time to time, possibly better than the mighty Linux does. Linux fan boys only like to brainelessly troll them, no matter what they do. This, is _unacceptable_ for me and the kind of web site I run and the kind of mindshare I have. I am not a Linux wheenie. I am NOT a BeOS one either (I haven't rebooted to BeOS for more than 3 months now if you want to know, while I reboot to Linux or FreeBSD almost daily).

That's the real problem here. You see me being way more open with OSes, you see me using my own brain to judge these OSes instead of following the crowd or "M$ sucks, Apple sucks, everythign non-linux sucks". And that _disturbs_ you. Too bad honeys, because this is why I run OSNews and not Linux news, because I embrace ALL OSes. I like ALL of them. I like Windows and I like Linux. I hate Linux and I hate Windows. Depends for which parts we are talking about. They ALL have their good and bad points. That's the beauty of it!! Fanatism is one thing I don't like though. OSNews and myself is not taking one part or the other, however their strengths and weaknesses WILL be mentioned. If Windows has a better application system, great. If Linux is a better cheap box server, great too! If Windows is unsecure, too bad. If Linux's ability to install third party drivers is a pain and with complications considering the large number of different distros, too bad too.

>If you weren't so pro-Microsoft, your reception would have been better.

Read above. If you don't understand above what I wrote, then you will leave this forum and you will still think that I am "pro-microsoft". This is a shame because people seem to not understand me. They expect me to be against MS. Sorry, this is not an option. I am not even against SCO (until a judge proves them to be bad wolves at least). And no, I am not against Linux either. I don't like taking sides as I don't care about companies or "groups" or "teams". But I do like critisizing technology.

*Technology* is ALL I care and embrace (e.g. XFS and NTFS, C# and Java). I don't care about *politicalities* _at all_ (e.g. GPL Vs closed source, SCO Vs IBM). That's our difference.
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Last edited by Eugenia on Tue May 27, 2003 7:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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bsolar
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PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2003 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zenlunatic wrote:
So please Eugenia don't come to our forums and try and say their is a such thing as "redhat compatibility".

Eugenia is welcome in these Forums as long as she follows the rules (and this applies to everyone else too). "Our" forums are also her forums as long as she is part of the communinity.

She is free to express her opinions that you might not like or want to argue, but that you have to respect.
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gigel
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eugenia wrote:

You didn't understood a thing of what I was talking about, didn't you?
shm, thank you. :)
Indeed I am talking about a different kind of security. One that both Microsoft and Red Hat offer.

u have to make yourself more clear,when u want to say something just say it,dont make any alusions or whateva'...if u speak about security the average people should think about _SECURITY_ ..this is a multinational forum,everybody should speak/understand english which is not our native language...otherwise misunderstanding may lead into senseless flames,so when u are trying to make a statemnt be more specific so the average english speacker should get what do u mean
when u logged in doesn't count,and is not important if u were logged in before zenlunatic or before me or before whoever .
i understand your point of view,i don't judge u but i think u are wrong about the *suporting redhat* thingie...
lets take for example a hardware vendor who wants to sell a network card...
he may tell that the driver works for rh 7.4 9.2 or whatevar...but it's obvious that that driver will work on a same kernel of a diferent distro..it's all about marketing ....and i _HATE_ marketing ..it's just lame imo...

red hat is just a _LINUX_ distribution,if it sells their customers tehnical support is not an issue here..u canot sleep well if someone from their support staff tells u that u are secure...it's stupid...u(as an admin) cannot trust anyone but yourself.sure a support guy may help u but no more than that....u canot take his word for granted ;)
hey,m$ tells u the same thing when u purchase windows...
i respect redhat cause they pay many developers,but i'm not into their red-hat distro at all....i dont like rpm's ..i dont like stupid startup services by default ..bottom line..

this is not intended as a flame/argue(i'm sorry if my post was interpreted as a flame,and i must appologise for that,and for my bad english also)
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bsolar
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mortix wrote:
red hat is just a _LINUX_ distribution,if it sells their customers tehnical support is not an issue here..

I am sorry but this is wrong, Red Hat is a company, more specifically a "Linux and open source provider". You are confusing one of their product (Red Hat Linux) with the whole company, even if this error is understandable since Red Hat Linux is practically the Red Hat's flagship.

Probably one was talking about the company the other about the distro, that's the misunderstandment.
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gigel
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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2003 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bsolar wrote:
mortix wrote:
red hat is just a _LINUX_ distribution,if it sells their customers tehnical support is not an issue here..

I am sorry but this is wrong, Red Hat is a company, more specifically a "Linux and open source provider". You are confusing one of their product (Red Hat Linux) with the whole company, even if this error is understandable since Red Hat Linux is practically the Red Hat's flagship.

Probably one was talking about the company the other about the distro, that's the misunderstandment.

u're right ...what i tried to say in my post....and i was making the same mistake :P ...man it's 2:36 here and i was(still am) verry tired..
though i was taliking about red hat linux
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Woland
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2003 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eugenia wrote:

Indeed I am talking about a different kind of security. One that both Microsoft and Red Hat offer.


Err.. Would that be job security? Yes, if that is the case, M$ is infinatley better than any linux distro.

The IT morons at my job have been re-installing NT on boxes for about four years now.
Something on the network breaks, they come to the ward and re-install Windows, look smug, and sometimes forget to duck when patients throw things at them. And they get to keep doing it, and collecting theis state paychecks. No one expects any different, because, most everyone runs windows at home, and that is how you solve problems there too.
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shiftzero
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Linux is a great server OS, poor workstation, in my own HO.

Poor workstation? I'm very happy with my mmedia gentoo station;
It's fast, stable & very important to me: eye-candy. Not even MacOS themes
come close.
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xedx
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

frostshade wrote:
Quote:
Linux is a great server OS, poor workstation, in my own HO.

Poor workstation? I'm very happy with my mmedia gentoo station;
It's fast, stable & very important to me: eye-candy. Not even MacOS themes
come close.


don't worry it's her opinion.
I'm very happy with workstation too :)
:)
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smokeslikeapoet
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think most companies that move to RedHat under the assumption that it's better if you can call someone on the phone and ask them questions about the operating system, security, or implemintation. Managers aren't aware that that if you hire the right people, developers and admistrators with a nework of relationships all over the world, it won't be neccessary to call anyone when you run into problems, the competent developer or adminstrator has the resources to work the problem out. Who's to say that person on the other end of the phone is competent or will give you the best solution to the problem. I worked in tech support for Dell for a couple of years and my job was not to give the best solution to the problem, just the solution that took the least amount of time. Support is one of the most expensive parts of the IT industry, maybe even on par with R&D and the more customers you can help in the shortest time with the cheapest staff payroll the better for the stock holders. Just because RedHat offers support doesn't mean that they warranty the software or the service to work.

My point is - If you choose software based only on the amount of support that the software distributer oftens you are more than likely resorting to inferior software, and inferior support.
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ebrostig
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People, it is not Eugenia's job to be a specifc OS's advocate. She is a journalist and have to write about topics that she may or may not agree on or about OS'es or certain flavours that she may like better or worse than others. Most people here don't have such a job and can be pro or con on an almost "professional" basis.

In the long run, discussing whether this or that flavour of Linxu is better or worse is useless. Each distro has thier own specific targets and for some people it is *just right* while for others it is *plainly wrong*. I think places like OSnews has a lot to add to the community. I do not always agrre with Eugenia, but she (and the others at the OSNEws) is doing a good job in evaluating the various OS'es. I'm sure they don't have as much time as they would have liked to play arounbd with each, so sometimes they may miss out some stuff or plainly be wrong because they haven't time to play around. Their jobs is not to give a 100% thorough break-down of each OS, but an impression from their point of view.

I think gentoo did well in their poll because of the strong community (I didn't vote, I find polls like that to be very silly and not telling anything IMHO) I don't think it is immoral to post links on a fourm like this, nobody forces anyone to click on the link nor to vote.

Eugenia Please spend more time here and see what a great community we have and see how great distro gentoo is. Please feel free to PM me anytime if you need more info or have specific questions.

Erik
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Sargon
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebrostig wrote:
Eugenia Please spend more time here and see what a great community we have and see how great distro gentoo is. Please feel free to PM me anytime if you need more info or have specific questions.

Erik


I support this. ;) I found Eugenias posts in this thread very reasonable. What many Linux-geeks lack is exactly this thinking.

Sargon
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paranode
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ebrostig wrote:
I don't think it is immoral to post links on a fourm like this, nobody forces anyone to click on the link nor to vote.


Likewise, nobody would bother to follow the link and actually vote unless they really did like Gentoo the best.
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