Removing the 64-bit Java browser plugin

[nightmorph]

Gentoo's Java team is contemplating removal of the nsplugin USE flag from blackdown-jdk and blackdown-jre, due to security vulnerabilities and because it is unable to run a number of applets without crashing and general instability. Additionally, blackdown has been unmaintained upstream for some time.

If the nsplugin USE flag is removed, it would mean that it would no longer be possible to use Java in your webbrowser on a pure 64-bit system, as there would be no64-bit plugin available at all. 32-bit plugins would continue to exist, but you'd need to run them in a 32-bit browser, which means you'll need a multilib system. (No, nspluginwrapper is not a valid solution, so don't bring it up; it's even more unstable than blackdown ever was.)

If you'd like the Java team to keep the 64-bit browser plugin available, please speak up. Otherwise it'll be removed, and you'll only be able to run 32-bit plugins in 32-bit browsers.

Reasons to keep:

• Offering a 64-bit browser plugin is pretty easy; it's easy to install and use/switch to. What other distro offers such an easy way of managing multiple mixed 32/64-bit browser plugins (eselect)?
  
• There are plenty of users who run pure 64-bit systems, either by choice or because they have to. Not everyone wants a multilib system, even though that's the default. 64-bit plugins are part of the pure bitness.

Reasons to remove:

• Unresolved security issues, see the bug.
  
• Stability issues, see the mailing list thread, and search the forums to find threads like this.
  
• Seems unmaintained by upstream.

Stuck on request from nightmorph, --kallamej
Closed the poll and unstuck, on the request of nightmorph. -- desultory
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[heikole]

Yes, please, keep the 64-bit plugin. The transition from 32 to 64 bits has always been a long way to go, but there's no reverse, for the Sun or Blackdown Java community neither.
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42

[Betelgeuse]

Basically no-one has said it works for them so I am going to remove it unless I see someone saying that the plugin works for them.

[geniux]

It's nice having java in the webbrowser, but before I vote I want to know when or if the nsplugin use flag will be active for the sun-jdk ebuild? Now it's (-nsplugin)
I do prefer sun but if they don't want it to work on my 64-bit browser I'll choose Blackdown as an alternative
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[Philantrop]

I voted to keep it for the following reasons:

- Yes, there are security issues but I can live with them. They're not exactly new - Sun acknowledged them on Dec. 19th last year. I haven't seen or heard of an exploit "in the wild".

- I may be an exception but usually the plugin just works for me. Maybe I'm not regularly using "critical" pages but I've experienced more crashes with multimedia plugins than with Java so far.

- Yes, it's unmaintained by upstream - like lots of other packages we keep in the Portage tree. :-)

A compromise between removal and keeping it comes to mind, though: Put it into an overlay (sunrise? java-something?), announce its removal from the Portage tree and close any bugs as invalid.

The package would still be available but not officially supported. It's surely not the perfect solution but I think it's better than simply removing it.

[MrFenix]

I'd like you to keep it, until Sun has finally finished releasing a functional 64Bit Plugin.
A good thing to do could be splitting versions:
An official Blackdown version without the useflag
and an inofficial one with the useflag, but masked and with warning in ebuild.

[heikole]

[Voyageur]

That plugin did not work the 2 or 3 times I needed a working Java plugin. If with that it has security issues, I vote kick it out!

By the time I'll really need a java plugin again, I hope gcj or sun will have a solution
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[sternklang]

I pretty much gave up on 64-bit firefox, one of the two main reasons being blackdown crashes (lack of a usable open-source flash was the other reason).

My vote is to drop it and wait for the community around the open-sourced sun java to produce the 64-bit plugin that sun should have created years ago.

[angelos]

It worked for me on the 2 or 3 sites I've used it, but still I'd vote to remove it (can't vote for any reason though, but looks like most want it removed anyways :>)
/me just unmerged blackdown-jre, now living with sun-jdk as only j(re|dk)

[wuzzerd]

There is only one site I need java for and it looks terrible with blackdown. I've been using 64 bit Sun with Konqueror for quite awhile now.

[Betelgeuse]

[Ken69267]

Everytime I've needed to use java blackdown has never quite worked for me. I believe it should be dropped from the official tree but as Philantrop said I agree it should be put into some kind of an overlay.

[bjlockie]

[wuzzerd]

[ProTech]

Is there a way to mask and unmask USE flags? By default it will be masked, but if someone needs a java plugin, he can unmask the flag and can use it with a big fat warning.

[j-m]

[mmm]

Put it in an overlay

[naga]

/me votes no. Crashes horribly on every site I need Java to work on

[amne]

This is a real lose-lose scenario.
If possible, i'd recommend keeping it with a big fat warning/mask.
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[gringo]

i don´t care much about java ( lucky me), masking it by default would be the best move i guess.

cheers
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[ikshaar]

It works for me. Not great but works.

I keep switching back and forth 32bit and 64 bit browser because:
64bit browser: several plugin don't work or don't exist
32bit browser: unless themes is part of gentoo, theme won't work as it does not install the correct lib for 32 and 64 bits. (And now mplayerplug-in-bin was discontinued)

I understand the security versus eye-candy might not be seen as relevant. But when you spend hours on web, with engines which cannot not render menu this is a huge pain.
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[aceFruchtsaft]

The blackdown-jdk plugin seems to work with simple applets (like here: http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/ or here: http://media.pearsoncmg.com/ph/bp/bp_blanchard_macro_4/chapter/agl1/G1/g1f.htm) so it's not utterly useless. However, more complex applets (like the one on http://www.map24.com) which are also those you'd really care about usually crash the browser.

So I'd rather not remove the nsplugin completely as it works in some situations and we don't have a viable alternative.

BTW, did anyone manage to successfully compile the dev-java/gcj-4.2_alphaxxxxxxxx ebuild which also provides the nsplugin from the java-gcj-overlay?

[tabanus]

I never realised the blackdown plugin had so many problems. I always assumed that I'd set something up wrong when a Java site didn't work, so for me I'd be content to see it go.

However, it is a step backwards in AMD64 adoption, and I predict many, many flames if you remove it, similar to the problems when xmms was removed. People just won't understand, no matter how well you explain how to work around it.

I hope that if it is removed, whoever takes responsibility for it has a very thick skin. It would be a shame to lose a developer over this.
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[tuam]

As long as it insists in crashing firefox everytime I try using a java applet, I vote for dropping it.

FF,

Daniel
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