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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 10:23 pm    Post subject: Gentoo and SCI and AA Reply with quote

I don't think AA was chosen just because it was free, or that it was a good game. I think the new partnership between Gentoo and Super Computer Inc. is significant in this descision.

SCI's milestones for May include the the presentation of project Avalanche which is the worlds first AMD Opteron cluster, and a showing of a 64 bit version of America's Army. SCI already have a contract with the U.S. Army to host 200 game instances of AA on their Jupiter clusters (which run Linux). At the same time a partnership is formed between SCI and Gentoo which results in Gentoo getting a dual Opteron workstation in order to develope a Gentoo distro for the Opteron platform. And Gentoo release a livecd featureing AA.

It seems to me that Gentoo may become the Linux distro for the Avalanche clusters, if so what is Gentoo getting in return? Its not clear whether this AA livecd is just a one off or not. SCI is mainly involved in tenchnology for hosting game servers, they don't seem too be intrested about the client side implementation.

In anycase, I'm certainly looking forward to the next GWN shedding some light on this partnership. This could be a real boost for Gentoo and even linux in general.
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uzik
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dsample wrote:


<snip>

I would like to make it so that it can either grab the config files off a small 'console' partition and keep the saves there.

<snip>


Uh. You can't repartition the user's hard disk. You'll have to mount whatever
file system drives he has and use space on those drives for saved games.
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zenic
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 2:56 am    Post subject: the future of gaming? Reply with quote

Hi all, a couple of things

#1 - saving/loading - This is a no-brainer. A CLOOP file system can be setup on any of the partitions currently on any of the local hard-disks. NTFS might be a bit more difficult because of the questionable writes, but almost every other filesystem can be supported.

On booting, the game-cd scans each partition in turn looking for compatible CLOOPs.

(for those unfamiliar with CLOOP, it is a single file that contains a filesystem within it)

#2 - drivers - living in Australia and using Telstra Bigpond Cable means that I have to use a client for a proprietory heartbeat/login protocol. There is a linux client, called bpalogin, but I would need to be able to install that FIRST, before I can connect to the net and download anything.

Ideally these drivers could be loaded onto the CLOOP... which brings me to my next point

#3 - console like? - console's have a configuration section - why not have one of those? a specialized client for X that lets you setup a few things - super simple interface that looks sexy? In this setup we could configure the CLOOP, mouse parameters, additional drivers...

I would personally like to see a "game CD master distro" that allows you to load game-cds onto the harddrive. It would allow you to resize partitions etc in a similar manner to the mandrake tool... and let you build a fancy grub menu. but that is all just fancy ideas.

#4 - is this the future? - could it be that we buy games, such as UT2003, which will install under windows (using auto-play) but if you reboot the computer with cd1 in the drive it will play automagically?

I wanna see it happen!
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uzik
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CLOOP is a pretty cool idea.

I just went looking and there are a bunch
of good games that would make a great test. They all use GL or SDL.
Is anybody an expert on X and Framebuffer? I would think X would
is way more than you need for a game. Just frame buffer would be
faster and less work I would think.

It also occurred to me I really want Never Winter Nights packaged
like this. :)
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a quote from another (now locked) thread, this is the direction that I would personally like Gentoo Games to take.

Brad
Quote:
How cool would it be to get Gentoo optimized games
1) Purchase a game (Foo) and get sent a key, that you put in /usr/portage/games/keys
2) emerge Foo

If you haven't got the key, then emerge Foo fails. (or you can't unzip it perhaps)
This would reduce media & distribution & middle-man costs, and should therefore reduce game cost. Of course, you would want to keep your keys in a safe place in case your computer crashed. Can this work? Is it more/less secure in terms of piracy than CDs are today.

Brad
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uzik
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not just give people a good value for the money?
Apple's music site shows if you have a good product at a reasonable
cost people will buy it.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unixmonkey wrote:
I think America's Army is a great choice for a first title.

It is very popular right now, and the anticipation in the linux community has been high ever since icculus posted that screenshot.

Most importantly, it is FREE. Everyone can check it out without paying a cent.

totally agree
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 2:23 pm    Post subject: choice of AA Reply with quote

d3c3it wrote:
Unixmonkey wrote:
I think America's Army is a great choice for a first title.

It is very popular right now, and the anticipation in the linux community has been high ever since icculus posted that screenshot.

Most importantly, it is FREE. Everyone can check it out without paying a cent.

totally agree


True. But it may have been chosen becasue SCI (gentoo's new partner) was already heavily involved in this game.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but in retrospect whats gentoo getting out of it? nice opteron system! so they can build gentoo to use this cpu even better, which im really pleased about because i hope to get an opteron/athlon 64 by the end the year.

thing i dont get is this was released onto windows without a flicker from anyone, if anything i noticed gaming magazines going on about how great it is but it comes to linux and theres,well to gentoo, a huge out cry.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d3c3it wrote:

thing i dont get is this was released onto windows without a flicker from anyone, if anything i noticed gaming magazines going on about how great it is but it comes to linux and theres,well to gentoo, a huge out cry.


I saw the flicker on windows. It wasn't a big one though...

It's a big deal because games are awful on linux and the linux
community wants them. This is a good step toward making
linux more than just a server only operating system.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uzik wrote:
d3c3it wrote:

thing i dont get is this was released onto windows without a flicker from anyone, if anything i noticed gaming magazines going on about how great it is but it comes to linux and theres,well to gentoo, a huge out cry.


I saw the flicker on windows. It wasn't a big one though...

It's a big deal because games are awful on linux and the linux
community wants them. This is a good step toward making
linux more than just a server only operating system.

i know but thats what i dont understand, gentoo makes a step in the right direction *wheither you agree with the game or not* and theres a huge kick back about! im pleased they have flexed there stuff showing what they can do i dont like the choice of game but what can you do?
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d3c3it wrote:
but in retrospect whats gentoo getting out of it? nice opteron system! so they can build gentoo to use this cpu even better, which im really pleased about because i hope to get an opteron/athlon 64 by the end the year.


I'm guessing that the reason why SCI is helping Gentoo support the Opteron platform is becuase eventually they may want to use Gentoo on their own V. expensive, highly profitable (they hope) Opteron clusters. In which case receiving a single, albeit expensive, workstation is not a very equitable exchange. I think this partnership is somthing more than an opportunity for Gentoo to get a free workstation. SCI is heavily involved in providing online games services, so I'm also guessing that future of Gentoo Games Inc. may well be tied in with the future of SCI.

Does anyone know exactly what happened at E3 wrt the announcments made by Gentoo and SCI?
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="d3c3it"][quote="uzik"]
d3c3it wrote:


gentoo makes a step in the right direction *wheither you agree with the game or not* and theres a huge kick back about! im pleased they have flexed there stuff showing what they can do i dont like the choice of game but what can you do?


Not to be offensive, but you could write your own.

I'm enthusiastic about the idea and I've already started gathering
the info I need and planning out how to go about creating a platform
for bootable games. I've already found some game candidates
and started collecting the source code I'll need.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="uzik"][quote="d3c3it"]
uzik wrote:
d3c3it wrote:


gentoo makes a step in the right direction *wheither you agree with the game or not* and theres a huge kick back about! im pleased they have flexed there stuff showing what they can do i dont like the choice of game but what can you do?


Not to be offensive, but you could write your own.

I'm enthusiastic about the idea and I've already started gathering
the info I need and planning out how to go about creating a platform
for bootable games. I've already found some game candidates
and started collecting the source code I'll need.

non-taken:)
id love to, no idea how thou, but the thing is like a recent article i read about gentoo, saying it was made by geeks for geeks, this sort of thing attracts other *windows* users, like some my friends they thing im mental using gentoo, they saw the install guide and didnt have a clue what it meant! as someone else said on the board thou i hope gentoo doesnt get made into a gaming os because i use gentoo for the exact opposite, just my 2cents:)
btw what games you planning on doing?
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d3c3it wrote:

id love to, no idea how thou, but the thing is like a recent article i read about gentoo, saying it was made by geeks for geeks, this sort of thing attracts other *windows* users, like some my friends they thing im mental using gentoo, they saw the install guide and didnt have a clue what it meant! as someone else said on the board thou i hope gentoo doesnt get made into a gaming os because i use gentoo for the exact opposite, just my 2cents:)
btw what games you planning on doing?


I'm a professional programmer, and a geek too I guess. I'm not
a technophile as most people here are. I don't tweak just to be
tweaking. I pick out something to do with it and work toward that.

Right now I've picked out about six remakes of old arcade games
to try as a test. There's also an arcade game machine emulator
that lets you run the real arcade game code from the machines
used in the arcade. I thought this would make a good proof
of concept and something entertaining to play too. I could put
an old machine in the rec room and play asteroids or galaga.

I saw the source for castle wolfenstein and one or two fps
games was available. They would take some real programming
instead of just system configuration work though. That's probably
next if things work out.

Who knows? It might become something big.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uzik wrote:
d3c3it wrote:

id love to, no idea how thou, but the thing is like a recent article i read about gentoo, saying it was made by geeks for geeks, this sort of thing attracts other *windows* users, like some my friends they thing im mental using gentoo, they saw the install guide and didnt have a clue what it meant! as someone else said on the board thou i hope gentoo doesnt get made into a gaming os because i use gentoo for the exact opposite, just my 2cents:)
btw what games you planning on doing?


I'm a professional programmer, and a geek too I guess. I'm not
a technophile as most people here are. I don't tweak just to be
tweaking. I pick out something to do with it and work toward that.

Right now I've picked out about six remakes of old arcade games
to try as a test. There's also an arcade game machine emulator
that lets you run the real arcade game code from the machines
used in the arcade. I thought this would make a good proof
of concept and something entertaining to play too. I could put
an old machine in the rec room and play asteroids or galaga.

I saw the source for castle wolfenstein and one or two fps
games was available. They would take some real programming
instead of just system configuration work though. That's probably
next if things work out.

Who knows? It might become something big.


good luck, ive no idea about programming, willing to learn thou, but i remember reading an article with the bloke who made movieX or something *that livecd for movie support* about how he made that, is it a simular concept?
im really interested in this livecd thing, you should make 1 of q3a heh this could turn linux gaming in the right direction because in effect its not much different to a console, pop in the game, loads, play. just a thought:)
zsnes is oss isnt it? that would be cool, snes on a cd:)
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

uzik wrote:
You probably couldn't mod probe mouse drivers since you can't tell
if the mouse is connected to a serial port. You'd have to write something
to scan for them like a modem auto detector does. There not being
that many kinds of mouse ports that's not too tough.


No it's possible, Knoppix autodetects all 3 kinds of mice (yes, including serial) with no problems at all.
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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2003 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try to be not a$$, but this livecd is a dog slow and bad lag on 1.4Ghz machine. I already compared it to the AA on Windows and it runs very smoother than this livecd. But, I am not sure how it will fast if it's on HD instead a livecd.
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uzik
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mezz wrote:
Try to be not a$$, but this livecd is a dog slow and bad lag on 1.4Ghz machine. I already compared it to the AA on Windows and it runs very smoother than this livecd. But, I am not sure how it will fast if it's on HD instead a livecd.


Could you repeat that in english?
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

uzik wrote:
mezz wrote:
Try to be not a$$, but this livecd is a dog slow and bad lag on 1.4Ghz machine. I already compared it to the AA on Windows and it runs very smoother than this livecd. But, I am not sure how it will fast if it's on HD instead a livecd.


Could you repeat that in english?

No
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:29 pm    Post subject: Next on gentoogames: Master of Orion 3 Reply with quote

Just a thoght ...
It doesnt need a lightning fast machine and run perfect with winex - actually it more stable under linux (no dreaded directx surface not available crashes).

Get going!

1) Start gentoogames
2) Contact quicksilver
3) make a MoO3 Linux LiveCD
4) Profit!!!!

Greetz, Björn
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PostPosted: Sun May 18, 2003 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can the gentoo ppl create an AA ebuild so you can run it off your hd?
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PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2003 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with thecoop that there should be an ebuild! I am SO happy that my favorite distro is getting involved with making games available for Linux users, but.. I actually don't like the idea of the livecd. If I liked rebooting to play a game, I wouldn't care if there were games on Linux because that's why I dual boot. It reminds me of a throwback to the DOS days where I had to use a boot floppy to play my games. However, I'm still really looking forward to what Gentoo Games has to offer. I am going to check out America's Army, although I'm not extremely excited about the particular game (no political reasons for this) and I can't wait to see what's going to come next.
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2003 8:35 pm    Post subject: Dear whoever Reply with quote

"As much as anyone in the past 100 years, Einstein spoke and wrote passionately against the evils of the military mentality, whether found in a government's forcing its young to join armies or in its stockpiling weapons to annihilate the next enemy. The culture becomes contaminated with martial thinking. "Our schoolbooks glorify war and conceal its horrors," Einstein wrote. "They indoctrinate children with hatred. I would teach peace rather than war, love rather than hate." "


. . .

"I am not only a pacifist but a militant pacifist. . . . Every war merely enlarges the chain of vicious circles which impedes the progress of mankind. . . . We must begin to inoculate our children against militarism by educating them in the spirit of pacifism."

. . .

Einstein lived in America from 1933 until his death in 1955. That was time enough to analyze and then constructively criticize the country's "imperialist and militaristic interests." In the early 1950s, when the U.S. arms industry commenced its weapons-building spree that lasts to this day, and when Congress began an equally long-lasting buying spree to pay for it, Einstein argued that "you cannot simultaneously prevent . . . |and prepare for war. The very prevention of war requires more faith, courage and resolution than are needed to prepare for war."

. . .

Einstein became a counselor for draft resisters. In a December 1930 speech at New York's Ritz-Carlton hotel sponsored by the New History Society, Einstein explained what needed to be done: "I should like you to realize that under the present military system, every man is compelled to commit the crime of killing for his country. The aim of all pacifists must be to convince others of the immorality of war and rid the world of the shameful slavery of military service."

. . .

No, Einstein said: "This 'human nature' which makes wars is like a river. It is impossible in geological time to change the nature of a river. But when it continually overflows its banks and destroys our lives and homes, do we sit down and say, 'It is too bad. We can't change the river. We can do nothing about it'. . . Just as we use reason to build a dam to hold a river in check, we must now build institutions to restrain the fears and suspicions and greeds which move peoples and their rulers."
. . .

Einstein's work on atomic energy exposed him to the criticism that he was aligned with the military mentality and its insatiable lust for more-lethal weapons. In fact, he wrote to President Franklin Roosevelt in early 1945 urging him not to use atomic weapons against Japan. The day Roosevelt died, the letter was found on his desk unopened."

http://www.commondreams.org/views/022100-101.htm
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2003 8:43 pm    Post subject: eisenhower Reply with quote

"
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.


This world in arms in not spending money alone.


It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.


The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities.


It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population.


It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals.


It is some 50 miles of concrete highway.


We pay for a single fighter with a half million bushels of wheat.


We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.


This, I repeat, is the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking.


This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.
"

http://oll.temple.edu/hist249/course/Documents/chance_for_peace_speech.htm

--- Dwight David Eisenhower, commander allied forces
europe, World War II
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