Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Gentoo Forums
Quick Search: in
wtf? Is everything going wrong at gentoo?
View unanswered posts
View posts from last 24 hours

Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13  Next  
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:34 pm    Post subject: wtf? Is everything going wrong at gentoo? Reply with quote

Pretty much, flameeyes, one of the best gentoo devs EVER is leaving:

http://farragut.flameeyes.is-a-geek.org/articles/2007/02/18/im-tired-of-being-insulted

from reading -dev and looking at CIA every now and again i can see that he wasd one of the hardest devs around and will be greatly missed
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
thestick
Guru
Guru


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 531
Location: /dev/urandom

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I`m really gonna miss him.
Go with Christ , diego.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anello
Guru
Guru


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: EU -> DE -> Stuttgart

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damn! Its getting worse and worse. Why isn't the council or devrel or whatever is responisible to supervise finally taking measures? He isn't the first to complain about that situtation ...
_________________
Antonino Catinello | http://catinello.eu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wah
Guru
Guru


Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 453
Location: Raleigh, NC, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was sad to hear this as well...I always enjoyed reading Diego's blog entries, as they were very informative.

Good luck Diego! Keep up the good work!

Cheers,
W.
_________________
- AMD64 3000+, MSI K8N-SLI, Nvidia Geforce 6600 PCIE, 2GB OCZ Dual-Channel PC3200,2x160GB SATA
- Registered Linux User #418541
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anello wrote:
damn! Its getting worse and worse. Why isn't the council or devrel or whatever is responisible to supervise finally taking measures? He isn't the first to complain about that situtation ...
because half of devrel resigned
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Voltago
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 2550
Location: In the city of dreaming spires

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit, since you yourself are no stranger to flaming, I feel that kind of post coming from you is a bit hypocritical.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
anello
Guru
Guru


Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: EU -> DE -> Stuttgart

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
anello wrote:
damn! Its getting worse and worse. Why isn't the council or devrel or whatever is responisible to supervise finally taking measures? He isn't the first to complain about that situtation ...
because half of devrel resigned


with no replacements?!?
_________________
Antonino Catinello | http://catinello.eu
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blubbi
Guru
Guru


Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 545
Location: Halle (Saale), Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

farewell flameeyes

It's not the first dev which got "mobbed" out and I guess if the "responsible" persons woun't change their behavior, he will not be the last.
Gentoo structure is build up on such devs like flameeyes and it's not a good habit du scare them away!

So go an think about your "education"!

regards
blubbi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
yngwin
Developer
Developer


Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4394
Location: Suzhou, China

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is outrage! Flameeyes has been one of the best developers we have had. It will be a great loss to see him leave. And with jakub thinking of doing the same, I think Gentoo is in real trouble. It is so sad to see such a lack of leadership in this distro we all love.
_________________
"Those who deny freedom to others deserve it not for themselves." - Abraham Lincoln
Free Culture | Defective by Design | EFF
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blubbi
Guru
Guru


Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 545
Location: Halle (Saale), Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Full Ack!

I guess some devs just forgett about "social behavior" while they ar sitting over their code.

It's a really sad path we are on right now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
amne
Bodhisattva
Bodhisattva


Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 6377
Location: Graz / EU

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voltago wrote:
cokehabit, since you yourself are no stranger to flaming, I feel that kind of post coming from you is a bit hypocritical.

FWIW cokehabit was kicked out of userrel way faster than anyone from Gentoo for similar misbehaviour.
_________________
Dinosaur week! (Ok, this thread is so last week)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Voltago wrote:
cokehabit, since you yourself are no stranger to flaming, I feel that kind of post coming from you is a bit hypocritical.
I dont understand what you are trying to say. I am saying that I am amazed that Gentoo is so bad behind the scenes that one of it's best developers leaves
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

anello wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
anello wrote:
damn! Its getting worse and worse. Why isn't the council or devrel or whatever is responisible to supervise finally taking measures? He isn't the first to complain about that situtation ...
because half of devrel resigned
with no replacements?!?
Yes but It seems like people skills and leadership are obviously more needed at the moment. Devrel seems impotent, the council seems to be doing ok, i'm not sure if the trustees have had to do anything recently, userrel doesn't seems to doing anything vaguely to do with the users and the userreps have stalled.
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tsunam
Retired Dev
Retired Dev


Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 343

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cokehabit wrote:
anello wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
anello wrote:
damn! Its getting worse and worse. Why isn't the council or devrel or whatever is responisible to supervise finally taking measures? He isn't the first to complain about that situtation ...
because half of devrel resigned
with no replacements?!?
Yes but It seems like people skills and leadership are obviously more needed at the moment. Devrel seems impotent, the council seems to be doing ok, i'm not sure if the trustees have had to do anything recently, userrel doesn't seems to doing anything vaguely to do with the users and the userreps have stalled.


The trustee's have absolutely no responsibility for the technical side of the gentoo project. They have nothing to do with this issue, so don't mention them like they have some part in this at all. Its Devrel and the Council that are responsible for anything of this nature. This has been boiling for a while, and the last straw has finally be broken.
_________________
I'm not afraid of happy endings, just afraid my life wont work that way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rhill
Developer
Developer


Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 1629
Location: sk.ca

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're screwed.
_________________
by design, by neglect
for a fact or just for effect
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
think4urs11
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 6659
Location: above the cloud

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dirtyepic wrote:
We're screwed.

Nope, we're on the beginning of an (seems to) urgently needed constructive+respectful discussion. Everything else would be cowardly 'duck and cover behaviour'.
Should include _all_ parties from 'known power users'/'otherwise known helpful persons', developers, dev/userrel up to the council.
_________________
Nothing is secure / Security is always a trade-off with usability / Do not assume anything / Trust no-one, nothing / Paranoia is your friend / Think for yourself
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheCoop
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 Jun 2002
Posts: 1814
Location: Where you least expect it

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

will enough people really get their heads out of their asses to have that constructive conversation/debate, or will gentoo die the death of a thousand forks?

What gentoo needs is the ppl causing all the problems (dunno who those are, really...) to be kicked out, cvs access revoked, etc etc. But thats not going to happen.
_________________
95% of all computer errors occur between chair and keyboard (TM)

"One World, One web, One program" - Microsoft Promo ad.
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Adolf Hitler

Change the world - move a rock
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
think4urs11
Administrator
Administrator


Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 6659
Location: above the cloud

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheCoop wrote:
will enough people really get their heads out of their asses to have that constructive conversation/debate, or will gentoo die the death of a thousand forks?
What gentoo needs is the ppl causing all the problems (dunno who those are, really...) to be kicked out, cvs access revoked, etc etc. But thats not going to happen.

The later is not a solution but a workaround. With that the actual situation might be fixed but i've some severe doubts about.
If noone stands up to really clean up the mess from ground up we'll face similar situations regulary in near future again and again. It is very obvious (to me) that some of the background processes seem to be a bit inefficent (or need some more attention) - from guys and girls who can cope with that.
_________________
Nothing is secure / Security is always a trade-off with usability / Do not assume anything / Trust no-one, nothing / Paranoia is your friend / Think for yourself
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Voltago
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 2550
Location: In the city of dreaming spires

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheCoop wrote:
What gentoo needs is the ppl causing all the problems (dunno who those are, really...) to be kicked out, cvs access revoked, etc etc.

Oh, you mean the developers :wink:
But seriously though, I'm pretty sure you can't lay the blame on a couple of badguys and hope if they are gone that everything will be sunshine and lollypops. When you got a group of over-worked under-appreciated people, I can imagine that everyone is a little on edge and some minor disagreement quickly escalates to a full-grown flamefest. No, what Gentoo probably needs is consolidation: Axe sub-projects that go nowhere, push package groups in overlays, create versioned toolchains and drop support for everything else, that kind of thing. Less complexity. Less workload.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blubbi
Guru
Guru


Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 545
Location: Halle (Saale), Germany

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the big problem is that you can not punish someone for mobbing out others.

Everybody is working for free on a project, so if one got mobbed out, you throw the evel one out too... it ends up in -2 devs for gentoo... not good.

Some "institution" of thrusted, respected and fairminded users/devs should arbitrate.... I guess that was what uerrel/devrrel was intended to do, wan't it? But this idea implies that the attacked dev seeks contact to "the institution"... would you? Wouldn't it let you look like a child crying for you mom?

Quite complicated the whole situation.

regards
blubbi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheCoop
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 Jun 2002
Posts: 1814
Location: Where you least expect it

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect there's no easy answer to fix it. And devs would be loath to implement any deep changes to How Things Are Done, even if it alienates the community, which is what gentoo was based on in the first place
_________________
95% of all computer errors occur between chair and keyboard (TM)

"One World, One web, One program" - Microsoft Promo ad.
"Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Führer" - Adolf Hitler

Change the world - move a rock
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tsunam wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
anello wrote:
cokehabit wrote:
anello wrote:
damn! Its getting worse and worse. Why isn't the council or devrel or whatever is responisible to supervise finally taking measures? He isn't the first to complain about that situtation ...
because half of devrel resigned
with no replacements?!?
Yes but It seems like people skills and leadership are obviously more needed at the moment. Devrel seems impotent, the council seems to be doing ok, i'm not sure if the trustees have had to do anything recently, userrel doesn't seems to doing anything vaguely to do with the users and the userreps have stalled.


The trustee's have absolutely no responsibility for the technical side of the gentoo project. They have nothing to do with this issue, so don't mention them like they have some part in this at all. Its Devrel and the Council that are responsible for anything of this nature. This has been boiling for a while, and the last straw has finally be broken.
i know that, thats why i said i dont think they have had anything to do, i didn't mean to make it seem like that
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Butts McCokey
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 23 Apr 2004
Posts: 3327

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe developers could be added to a "sin bin" or something?

There also seems to be a complete lack of willingness to admit there is a problem.

Also it seems that -core just exists so devs can have a shouting match, if there wasn't an invisible list to the users then maybe people would think twice about saying something
_________________
Since the bible and the church are obviously mistaken about where we came from, how can we trust them with where we're going?

"An eye for an eye will make us all blind" - Gandhi

Cold is gods way to tell us to burn more Catholics
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aidanjt
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 1102
Location: Rep. of Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, there's a massive delrel problem, even though I can't chat in -dev, I still sometimes go there to weigh up the form. Often I see needless, childlike bickering and huff-motivated kick/bans, particularly coming from a 'developer' who likes to talk a lot without much substance to back it up. When I see the internal bickering of developers it makes me not want to bother to file bugs or submit ebuilds, I don't see how this mess is left to grow into a damn fine developer leaving because devrel is on side of the provocator, everyone should be kicking up stink, and left nameless person should be dealt with seriously.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
steveL
Advocate
Advocate


Joined: 13 Sep 2006
Posts: 2511
Location: The Peanut Gallery

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jakub wrote:
EAPI docs – last commit there about month ago; devmanual bugs rotting in bugzilla; QA violations breaking the tree are ignored (with hal vs. pciutils being the most recent example)


I've been waiting for that EAPI thing, which was apparently discussed on the dev list last summer. Don't know about the other stuff; @kloeri: is any of the above accurate in your opinion?

One thing I would say; geoman started the rudeness in the context of the bugzilla conversation. I've seen far too many posts from devs who seem to think it's acceptable to insult people. Can we at least get a consensus that this is unacceptable? IOW attack ideas, not people. And yes, whoever devrel are, imo they need to enforce politeness. FFS the forums are better moderated.

Personality clashes will always happen; can't devs just avoid each other? God knows i avoid some, and i'm not even a contributor.. :P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Gentoo Forums Forum Index Gentoo Chat All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13  Next
Page 1 of 13

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum