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| Would (did) you switch back to portage after installing paludis? |
| 1. I stay with paludis |
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61% |
[ 258 ] |
| 2. I switched back to portage |
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38% |
[ 161 ] |
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| Total Votes : 419 |
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krisse
Guru
Joined: 15 Mar 2005
Posts: 325
Location: Sweden
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 Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| georgia_tech_swagger wrote: | | [...] layman like functionality [...] |
Did you see the mention of playman earlier on this page? (It even seems to be mentioned on the Gentoo wiki Paludis howto.) ... Haven't tried it myself since I prefer handling the repos manually. But give it a spin and tell us if it works.  |
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Paapaa
l33t
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 955
Location: Finland
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ColdWind
Retired Dev
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Valencia, Spain
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ferdy wrote: | | Quote: | | Convenience and simplicity. |
Easily solved with a simple script wrapper
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See paludis-extras overlay for an example of such script. |
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ColdWind
Retired Dev
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Valencia, Spain
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| AM088 wrote: | | Paapaa wrote: | | You still have to memorize it. IMO memorizing "--install" or "-i" is pretty much equally easy. The only difference is the amount of letters you have to type. I just guess you are used to using Portage and -o and learning the new way feels awkward in the beginning. |
Well that's easy to memorize. Memorizing "--dl-reinstall if-use-changed" is not... |
It's not hard to remember when you know the meaning. Personally, I memorize strings with a meaning better than a bunch of individual letters without it. Of course, single letters are great when you can easily attach a meaning to it (i.e. -i/install, -p/pretend, -u/uninstall).
Anyway, bash-completion is your friend. It's a good way to get fast help (rather than typing paludis --help and reading through it) and using it makes typing long options almost as fast as short ones. |
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jonnevers
Veteran
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Gentoo64 land
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Ferdy wrote: | | Quote: | | though paludis does not have a --emptytree like flag |
What are you talking about?
- ferdy |
sorry i'm not a guru like you.
| Paapaa wrote: | | http://paludis.pioto.org/faq/different.html#emptytree_usechanged |
I was going to reply with this same link, so apparently its clear as mud to the uninitiated.
I must apologize for not knowing every paludis command. sorry, seriously but I'm still learning the tool.
I'm doing a fresh gentoo install using paludis from step #1 (well, you need to use portage to bring down paludis but everything after that  ).
I guess I'll have to figure out the --emptytree equivalent myself, so I am. |
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zxy
Veteran
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1160
Location: in bed in front of the computer
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnevers wrote: | | I guess I'll have to figure out the --emptytree equivalent myself, so I am. |
Nope, here it is
| paludis -h: | --dl-reinstall When to reinstall packages
never Never (default)
always Always
if-use-changed If USE flags have changed
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Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished.
Lao Tzu |
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Ferdy
Retired Dev
Joined: 04 May 2002
Posts: 483
Location: España
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | sorry i'm not a guru like you. |
It is not about being a guru or not. It is about not lying.
- ferdy
_________________
Paludis, the next generation in package mangling. |
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jonnevers
Veteran
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Gentoo64 land
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| zxy wrote: | | Nope, here it is |
I'll have the paludis only system online soon enough. in fact, i'm going to dedicate real hardware to the system later tonight and ditch the vm instance.
sorry, i'm a "liar", i was never in ANY way trying to denigrate paludis.  |
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georgia_tech_swagger
n00b
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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Been using paludis for about 24 hours now to finish installing on my Desktop.
The good:
- Speed. It has to be 10 times faster than portage.
- Reconcilio.
- Built in GLSA.
- Automatic syncing of all overlays.
The bad:
- Doesn't seem to keep track of messages from packages and spit them all out at the end. Usually those message are useful post-setup instructions. 
- Dependency behavior params are bewildering.
- No clean way to checkout and add additional overlays quickly and easily like layman.
- Eix does not keep up with changes in Paludis' package_mask.conf and package_unmask.conf .... and I'm 99% sure I'll manually have to update eix after every sync. If I add a new overlay, I'll probably have to go and update /etc/make.conf for eix to pick up that overlay ....
I'll probably stick with paludis for speed ... but I'd call it about a wash at this point. If eix integration was better out of the box, Paludis would be better. I figure there's probably a hack somewhere for eix.... but I want to make sure it's a hack that I won't have to reconfigure with every update of paludis. |
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Paapaa
l33t
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 955
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| georgia_tech_swagger wrote: | | - Doesn't seem to keep track of messages from packages and spit them all out at the end. Usually those message are useful post-setup instructions. |
You can achieve this with a hook. See:
http://paludis.pioto.org/faq/different.html#elog
I agree that critical messages could be shown at the end by default, eventhough elog is abused in many cases. Missing something important is worse of the two evils.
_________________
Paludis, the way packages are meant to be managed. |
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micr0c0sm
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 148
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| georgia_tech_swagger wrote: | Been using paludis for about 24 hours now to finish installing on my Desktop.
The good:
- Speed. It has to be 10 times faster than portage.
- Reconcilio.
- Built in GLSA.
- Automatic syncing of all overlays.
The bad:
- Doesn't seem to keep track of messages from packages and spit them all out at the end. Usually those message are useful post-setup instructions.
- Dependency behavior params are bewildering.
- No clean way to checkout and add additional overlays quickly and easily like layman.
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I don't know how many times we need to say it, but there is playman which works just like layman.
Here is exactly how to set it up:
| Code: |
echo "sys-apps/paludis ruby" >> /etc/paludis/use.conf
paludis -i paludis
ln -s /usr/share/paludis/ruby/demos/playman.rb /usr/bin/playman
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| Quote: |
- Eix does not keep up with changes in Paludis' package_mask.conf and package_unmask.conf .... and I'm 99% sure I'll manually have to update eix after every sync. If I add a new overlay, I'll probably have to go and update /etc/make.conf for eix to pick up that overlay ....
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here is my /etc/paludis/repositories/paludis-extras.conf :
| Code: |
location = ${ROOT}/var/paludis/repositories/paludis-extras
sync = rsync://paludis-extras.org/paludis-extras rsync://drzile.dyndns.org/paludis-extras rsync://server.guldbrand.net/paludis-extras rsync://ns-linux.org/paludis-extras/
master_repository = gentoo
names_cache = /var/cache/paludis/names
write_cache = /var/cache/paludis/metadata
provides_cache = /var/cache/paludis/provides
format = ebuild
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once you have that,
| Code: |
paludis -s x-paludis-extras
paludis -i paludis-hooks-update-eix
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and you will have eix update correctly every time you sync.
| Quote: |
I'll probably stick with paludis for speed ... but I'd call it about a wash at this point. If eix integration was better out of the box, Paludis would be better. I figure there's probably a hack somewhere for eix.... but I want to make sure it's a hack that I won't have to reconfigure with every update of paludis. |
Part of what I liked about gentoo was the learning process, so I didn't mind having to do a little reading to understand how paludis worked. It is definitely not a 1-to-1 drop in replacement for portage as you found out. |
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jonnevers
Veteran
Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 1594
Location: Gentoo64 land
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| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Am I satisfied with Paludis? Yes. Emphatically, Yes.
I did a clean install (on new to to me hardware, 2.53ghz p4 w/ 2 gig ram), using *only* paludis from step one of the install. Actually step two since I had to use portage to bring down paludis but that was the *only* time I used portage.
system went through the install perfectly, though I did have three out of order dependencies issues bringing gnome down. so i had to bring the required package down manually and then restart the gnome palude.
http://file.monkeydisaster.net/files/paludis_missed_dependency-libbonobo.txt
http://file.monkeydisaster.net/files/paludis_missed_dependency-libgnomecanvas.txt
http://file.monkeydisaster.net/files/paludis_missed_dependency-gnome-doc-utils.txt
(i understand these are support issues, i'm just noting them here)
now for the good stuff:
had a i486 CHOST from default x86 mini install disk... decided lets test out paludis and learn how to update the CHOST at the same time.
updated to i686-pc-linux-gnu CHOST without one single issue! this means i got to use 'paludis --dl-reinstall always everything'. it was the first time i ever remember --emptytree actually making it to the end without erroring (keep in mind it was still a fresh system with only gnome brought down, so it wasn't expansive..).
then i brought down gcc-4.2.2 and again --dl-reinstall always everything. again, worked like a charm.
so i dug into repositories, just finished compile kde4 live ebuilds and i brought down compiz-fusion from the desktop-effects overlay. again, no issues besides having to do:
| Code: | | p -s x-desktop-effects |
instead of | Code: | | p -s desktop-effects |
confusing to a beginner like me but it is a moot issue since the repositories work perfectly.
got to check out --dl-reinstall-scm $TIMEFRAME, kudos for that... portage doesn't even come close with it's user originating update scripts!
I don't see much of a speed increase over portage but how fast can you chunk through a cache anyway? again, imo a moot issue.
my only real gripe with paludis is that is takes a good 35 minutes to compile on this hardware. (I know it can't be helped so don't take offence, i mean none). |
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Hypnos
Advocate
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 2889
Location: Omnipresent
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: |
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If you have to do subsequent reinstalls of Paludis, ccache makes a huge difference, though the test suite still takes a long time to run (you can turn that off too, at your own risk).
This is particularly useful if a package install fails for some silly reason, then the subsequent install attempt usually is very quick.
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Personal overlay | Simple backup scheme |
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Paapaa
l33t
Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 955
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Hypnos wrote: | | ...though the test suite still takes a long time to run (you can turn that off too, at your own risk). |
It also seems that Paludis 0.26 does not run test suites by default:
http://paludis.pioto.org/faq/stricter.html#testfailures
_________________
Paludis, the way packages are meant to be managed. |
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Hypnos
Advocate
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 2889
Location: Omnipresent
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ColdWind
Retired Dev
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 119
Location: Valencia, Spain
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| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| georgia_tech_swagger wrote: | | and I'm 99% sure I'll manually have to update eix after every sync. If I add a new overlay, I'll probably have to go and update /etc/make.conf for eix to pick up that overlay .... |
1% wins. You may want to check app-paludis/paludis-hooks-update-eix on paludis-extras repository. |
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georgia_tech_swagger
n00b
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:26 am Post subject: |
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Yea -- figured that out a few weeks ago... w00tz.
I did a paludis --report ... and now I'm trying to figure out how to have it resolve GLSA issues. Also, --report complained of packages installed but not used by anything ... in particular, nearly every MythTV extension. Is that indicative of a problem in my world file, or just mindless babble I should ignore? |
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Hypnos
Advocate
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 2889
Location: Omnipresent
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: |
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I don't know of a way to have Paludis do security updates for you automatically. Moreover, I think it would be a bad idea given that upgrades of deep deps can cause breakage. Sometimes the admin has to take care of stuff himself.
As for your "not used by anything" complaints, if your MythTV extensions belong there, that does seem like a problem with your world file.
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georgia_tech_swagger
n00b
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:37 am Post subject: |
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Yea, that's not *that* big of a deal.... the big thing is that it reports outstanding GLSA's.
As for MythTV extensions ... yes I installed them through paludis .... is it just complaining that they're not a dep. of another package?
* media-plugins/mythbrowser-0.20.2_p14807::installed NOT OK
Not used by any package in world
* media-plugins/mythdvd-0.20.2_p14282::installed NOT OK
Not used by any package in world
* media-plugins/mythgallery-0.20.2_p14282::installed NOT OK
Not used by any package in world
* media-plugins/mythgame-0.20.2_p14282::installed NOT OK
Not used by any package in world
* media-plugins/mythmusic-0.20.2_p14282::installed NOT OK
Not used by any package in world
* media-plugins/mythnews-0.20.2_p14282::installed NOT OK
Not used by any package in world
* media-plugins/mythvideo-0.20.2_p14684::installed NOT OK
Not used by any package in world |
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Hypnos
Advocate
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 2889
Location: Omnipresent
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: |
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How were these extensions pulled in? A quick grep of portage shows that nothing else depends on them, so they should be in your world file.
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georgia_tech_swagger
n00b
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| Hypnos wrote: | | How were these extensions pulled in? A quick grep of portage shows that nothing else depends on them, so they should be in your world file. |
paludis -i x y z |
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floffe
Guru
Joined: 24 Nov 2003
Posts: 414
Location: Linköping, Sweden
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| Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| georgia_tech_swagger wrote: | | I did a paludis --report ... and now I'm trying to figure out how to have it resolve GLSA issues. |
If you mean install security updates, you can use paludis -i security --dl-upgrade as-needed. |
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Hypnos
Advocate
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 2889
Location: Omnipresent
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leftys
n00b
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 18
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: Binary packages |
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Hi,
I have searched trac and I wonder if is it now possible to install binary packages with paludis... I think destinations are nearly done, but I didn't found any docs about installing binaries from remote (i have amd64 gentoo, so it may be even more complicated)...
Thanks in advance ! |
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yoshi314
l33t
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 850
Location: PL
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