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fehlfarbe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you all for your responses. i didn't want to troll around, but i am getting upset every time i see java-sun in my dependency tree.
if i would develop the portage tree, i would assign a useflag "sun" and one for "blackdown". the useflag "java" would be a reference to blackdown (opt-in sun's java). but the most ugly thing: the useflag "doc": what would you think means a useflag "doc"? a specific global useflag for minesweeper documentation? or a specific useflag for IE-7 documentation? no! a doc useflag should be a global useflag for *EVERY* package. that is what i expect from the useflag "doc". i hardly can except that "doc" is a useflag for ONE package... that needs to get fixed, or do you think i am wrong?
i use nvidia too - that isn't open source too, but i have to tell portage to get it (and i have to set a more meaningful useflag than "doc" for that).
can somebody tell me, why the "doc" useflag was assigned for "java-doc"?
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fehlfarbe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

by the way: if i were a gentoo package maintainer, i would think 3 times before i would add java-sun to the portage tree (because of its restrictions).
and sorry for the first posting, of course i speek only for me. but i am not a troll.

anyway, think of the naming policy for useflags:

"red" for a emerge of KDE with a red desktop-background
"debug" for a debug settings of MySQL server
"dontask" for Thunderbird
"PS2" for xserver with a ps2 mice.
...
that is the same like
"doc" for java!
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Redhatter
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure the developer who committed the initial Sun Java ebuild, thought more than just three times before adding it to the tree. :-)

Throw it in your own package.mask, unmerge it, do whatever... but it's there to stay. Especially now that it's about to be released under the GPL.
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fehlfarbe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@6thpink: you are right, let us see how long my bugreport will be open :)
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=160665
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Earthwings
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fehlfarbe wrote:
if i would develop the portage tree, i would assign a useflag "sun" and one for "blackdown". the useflag "java" would be a reference to blackdown (opt-in sun's java).

Good you're not as you'd probably remove dependencies and virtuals in favour of use flags.

fehlfarbe wrote:
but the most ugly thing: the useflag "doc": what would you think means a useflag "doc"? a specific global useflag for minesweeper documentation? or a specific useflag for IE-7 documentation? no! a doc useflag should be a global useflag for *EVERY* package. that is what i expect from the useflag "doc". i hardly can except that "doc" is a useflag for ONE package... that needs to get fixed, or do you think i am wrong?

doc is a global useflag, and several people in this thread told you about it and additionally how to unset it for jdk's only. So please now read the replies, otherwise I won't believe you any longer when you say you're not just trolling around.
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revenger
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think you're confusing java-sdk-docs with sun-jdk. because blackdown doesn't come with it's own documentation, the blackdown ebuild pulls sun's documentation package when the doc flag is enabled.
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fehlfarbe
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Earthwings: if i didnt have "java-jdk" emerged, why would emerge pull the java-sdk-doc package? but revenger has the answer:

@revenger: thank you, this is the thing i didn't see. blackdown pulls the java doc from sun. thank you.
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didymos
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, have we been feeding a troll?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

didymos wrote:
Guys, have we been feeding a troll?


No, just someone too impatient to more closely read what portage is telling him. :-)

The answer was there all along.
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Dralnu
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redhatter wrote:
didymos wrote:
Guys, have we been feeding a troll?


No, just someone too impatient to more closely read what portage is telling him. :-)

The answer was there all along.


Isn't that the case alot of the time?
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reiman
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

speak for yourself, I like the features in 1.5
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:56 am    Post subject: Re: why is sun java still in portage? Reply with quote

6thpink wrote:

I hate and dont feel a need for gnome either, what about removing it?


Yes, Fluxbox is good enough for us! Lets remove Gnome and all of those KDE packages.
:)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:22 am    Post subject: Re: why is sun java still in portage? Reply with quote

Pafnoutios wrote:
6thpink wrote:

I hate and dont feel a need for gnome either, what about removing it?


Yes, Fluxbox is good enough for us! Lets remove Gnome and all of those KDE packages.
:)

:lol: My browser in Flux is konqueror. (among others)
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Dralnu
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:42 am    Post subject: Re: why is sun java still in portage? Reply with quote

wuzzerd wrote:
Pafnoutios wrote:
6thpink wrote:

I hate and dont feel a need for gnome either, what about removing it?


Yes, Fluxbox is good enough for us! Lets remove Gnome and all of those KDE packages.
:)

:lol: My browser in Flux is konqueror. (among others)


Konq suxorz! Firefox rules!


and why do you need a fm anyways?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:11 am    Post subject: Re: why is sun java still in portage? Reply with quote

Dralnu wrote:
wuzzerd wrote:
Pafnoutios wrote:
6thpink wrote:

I hate and dont feel a need for gnome either, what about removing it?


Yes, Fluxbox is good enough for us! Lets remove Gnome and all of those KDE packages.
:)

:lol: My browser in Flux is konqueror. (among others)




and why do you need a fm anyways?
Konq suxorz! Firefox rules!


My main fm is mc. Use conq to use sun-java. [see subject :P ]
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Dralnu
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: why is sun java still in portage? Reply with quote

wuzzerd wrote:
Dralnu wrote:
wuzzerd wrote:
Pafnoutios wrote:
6thpink wrote:

I hate and dont feel a need for gnome either, what about removing it?


Yes, Fluxbox is good enough for us! Lets remove Gnome and all of those KDE packages.
:)

:lol: My browser in Flux is konqueror. (among others)




and why do you need a fm anyways?
Konq suxorz! Firefox rules!


My main fm is mc. Use conq to use sun-java. [see subject :P ]


Eh, I could care less. Actually, jdk got onto my system, and man is it a pain to get rid of...
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fehlfarbe wrote:
i am getting upset every time i see java-sun in my dependency tree.

You can do the following:
Code:
# rm -r /usr/portage/dev-java/sun-*
# nano -w /etc/portage/rsync_excludes
and then add the following line:
Code:
dev-java/sun-*

Emerge --sync will now exclude all sun related java stuff.

Now try to emerge for example tomcat. Have fun :-)
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jonnevers
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just a note, because i hate such misinformed users ranting:

Sun has released the JDK source code (except some still encumbered pieces they don't have the rights to convert to GPL), awhile ago. There has been an effort underway to plug those holes using GNU classpath, and they've gotten good results.

http://openjdk.java.net/

if you insist on using a OSS java, pull down the java-overlay and go to town compiling sun-jdk-1.7.x...

it's GPL'd and blackdown *sucks* (developer perspective, though i find it unusable as a user too). sorry blackdown developers, you had a lofted goal but you never quite got there.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cjubon wrote:
fehlfarbe wrote:
i am getting upset every time i see java-sun in my dependency tree.

You can do the following:
Code:
# rm -r /usr/portage/dev-java/sun-*
# nano -w /etc/portage/rsync_excludes
and then add the following line:
Code:
dev-java/sun-*

Emerge --sync will now exclude all sun related java stuff.

Now try to emerge for example tomcat. Have fun :-)


8O I have been using Gentoo for 5 years and still surprised by its flexibility.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nestal wrote:
I have been using Gentoo for 5 years and still surprised by its flexibility.

Yeah, me as well. If you're interested, the topic is covered in the Gentoo handbook, part III, 5: Diverting from the official tree: http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=3&chap=5#doc_chap1
Of course I wouldn't use that feature to exclude sun-jdks ;-), but used it to exclude all games and xfce4 related stuff. Similar for standalone servers: just wipe out x11, kde, gnome and friends and enjoy how your syncs will speed up!
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I don't want to install Blackdown manually. Nothing against Java in portage.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonnevers wrote:
it's GPL'd and blackdown *sucks* (developer perspective, though i find it unusable as a user too). sorry blackdown developers, you had a lofted goal but you never quite got there.


there ain't any blackdown devs left, the project has been dead for ever. And seeing that sun also have a proprietary (but still distro friendly, ie blackdown) license why anyone would want to use it is beyond me.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo is about choice so why rip sun out of portage? (Even if a majority is there that does not like it)
Thats ignorant which is closed as closed mind. As long as one hatches the Ebuild it should stay in portage. Just if no support whatsoever it should be removed from portage.

May be you pull in the sun documentation because there is no other documentation around or it is the best aviable?

Quote:
what would you think means a useflag "doc"?

I get the documentation of the Java Standard (which is afaik written by sun :P)

So if you hate sun for what they are I suggest not useing JAVA at all. Since it is all a bit SUN even if it has another name on it. :P

(Honestly I dont like Java at all. But I install it and use it because some things done in java are beautivully usefull.)


Hehe. Enjoy the choice.

Cheers
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