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Polyhead
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Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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 Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:00 am Post subject: [Complaints] GNOME 1.x no longer supported upstream |
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EDIT: Split from GNOME 1.x and GNOME 1.x dependent package masking --pjp
This is a big problem  Without this peice of software linux is useless too me. This is for keyboard to keyboard digital mode communication such as PSK31 or MT63 and many others. It is the ONLY such peice of software for linux. Removing this package will force me to move to using a different distro, o rmove back to windows.
First you remove XMMS, when there are no real replacments, now you remove a peice of software for which there is NO replacement. My faith in this distro is failing, it'll be back to slackware if this sort of garbage continues. Your devs are getting far far far to picky, and need to just suck it up, and serve the community, if they want to serve themselves, they can do it in the shower. |
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Polyhead
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Joined: 18 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| yabbadabbadont wrote: | | Thank you for your work in providing, not only notice, but such detailed information. Hopefully this will go a long ways towards preventing the kind of backlash that was seen with xmms. Again, thank you. |
What notice?? a posting in some corner of a fucking forum is NOT notice. on the front page of the website is where this belongs. Second of all, 30 days is not notice at all you fucking retards. 30days is not enough time for aplications to be fixed so that they can run on gtk2. When your making big moves like this, there should be atleast 90 days notice given, if not 6 months. |
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Gergan Penkov
Veteran
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 1464
Location: das kleinste Kuhdorf Deutschlands :)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Polyhead wrote: | | yabbadabbadont wrote: | | Thank you for your work in providing, not only notice, but such detailed information. Hopefully this will go a long ways towards preventing the kind of backlash that was seen with xmms. Again, thank you. |
What notice?? a posting in some corner of a fucking forum is NOT notice. on the front page of the website is where this belongs. Second of all, 30 days is not notice at all you fucking retards. 30days is not enough time for aplications to be fixed so that they can run on gtk2. When your making big moves like this, there should be atleast 90 days notice given, if not 6 months. |
First I would recommend you to watch your tongue!
And second if noone has fixed these packages for how many years (I begin using linux around 1998-99 and at this time gtk+-1 was actively developed) let's say 3-4, I don't see who will fix them in the next 30-60-90 days or if that matters in next 1000 years. So either fix them yourself and try to re-include them in portage or stop whinning....
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Polyhead
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Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| Gergan Penkov wrote: | | Polyhead wrote: | | yabbadabbadont wrote: | | Thank you for your work in providing, not only notice, but such detailed information. Hopefully this will go a long ways towards preventing the kind of backlash that was seen with xmms. Again, thank you. |
What notice?? a posting in some corner of a fucking forum is NOT notice. on the front page of the website is where this belongs. Second of all, 30 days is not notice at all you fucking retards. 30days is not enough time for aplications to be fixed so that they can run on gtk2. When your making big moves like this, there should be atleast 90 days notice given, if not 6 months. |
First I would recommend you to watch your tongue!
And second if noone has fixed these packages for how many years (I begin using linux around 1998-99 and at this time gtk+-1 was actively developed) let's say 3-4, I don't see who will fix them in the next 30-60-90 days or if that matters in next 1000 years. So either fix them yourself and try to re-include them in portage or stop whinning.... |
screw that, Its as much my distro as anyone elses, and my job to make sure it develops in an intelligent manner. Its not even known if it needs gnome 1.x yet! Nobody cares to look into it.
The other problem here is there should be 90days if it is the ONLY software for linux capable of doing said task. GMFSK is all there is, there simply is not any other software for linux for doing this task at all. The other problem is look at the time of the year! You've given people notice that they need to update their software (that works perfectly fine if they just leave it alone!) when they should be with their families! What an uncaring bunch of cocks you guys are!
gtk1.x is mature, it doesn't need fixed, its not broken, there is no need for its removal, nor is the software that uses is, again, there is no need for its removal. If it isn't broken, it doesn't need to be fixed, or updated. I knew this was going to happen when i saw you retards remove xmms and i new ham radio aplications would be some of the first aps to go. Good way to kill the use of linux in ameteur radio folks! |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 15989
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:56 am Post subject: Re: Media-Radio/GMFSK |
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| Polyhead wrote: | | This is a big problem [...] Removing this package will force me to move to using a different distro, o rmove back to windows. |
For how long?
| CompNerd wrote: | | GNOME 1.x is no longer supported by upstream GNOME developers. |
Gnome is doing the removal here. I think its a pain too (because yesterday I didn't have to deal with it), but this isn't really a Gentoo issue.
| Polyhead wrote: | | My faith in this distro is failing, it'll be back to slackware if this sort of garbage continues. Your devs are getting far far far to picky, and need to just suck it up, and serve the community, |
You seem to forget that OSS is about volunteering. Again, I'm not thrilled with having to deal with this right now either, but this isn't solely a Gentoo issue.
| Polyhead wrote: | | if they want to serve themselves, they can do it in the shower. |
If you are unable to find community support (e.g., an unofficial overlay for the package(s) that you need) then perhaps it is time for you to find a distro that will maintain support. There's no reason to get nasty about it.
Of course, there is another alternative. You could try to attract a developer to maintain the software you want by offering them money.
EDIT:
Oh, and another outbreak like the following, and you'll get a break from the forums. Now would be a good time to read the forum guidelines (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't register this account to prevent your real identity from getting a temporary ban).
| Polyhead wrote: | | What notice?? a posting in some corner of a fucking forum is NOT notice. on the front page of the website is where this belongs. Second of all, 30 days is not notice at all you fucking retards. 30days is not enough time for aplications to be fixed so that they can run on gtk2. When your making big moves like this, there should be atleast 90 days notice given, if not 6 months. |
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Last edited by pjp on Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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richfish
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 202
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: |
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This is not the appropriate place for this b*tchfest. Please take it to Gentoo Chat.
[quote=Polyhead]Its not even known if it needs gnome 1.x yet![/quote]
From http://gmfsk.connect.fi: "gmfsk is built on Gnome libraries".
[quote=Polyhead]GMFSK is all there is, there simply is not any other software for linux for doing this task at all.[/quote]
Sooo, copy the ebuild and dependancies to your local overlay and continue to use it. Portage provides excellent support for allowing you to maintain packages that you want but that do not have "official" support.
[quote=Polyhead]You've given people notice that they need to update their software[/quote]
The last gmfsk release was over two years ago. The rest of the world has moved on to Gnome 2.x. Why haven't "they" (whoever "they" is supposed to be). Do you really think they are just waiting until the Christmas rush is over?
[quote=Polyhead]gtk1.x is mature, it doesn't need fixed, its not broken, there is no need for its removal, nor is the software that uses is, again, there is no need for its removal.[/quote]
Except that there is no upstream maintainence to fix any problems that do come up (for example compatibility with new gcc versions or security fixes), which means a Gentoo dev has to take over all maintainenance, and there is no dev willing to do so. Do you not think it is a bit rude to demand that volunteer devs do work that they do not want to do? Are you offering to compensate them for this effort?
Finally, if you want to encourage devs to maintain $your_favorite_package, you might start by avoiding verbal assaults and insults. Most devs find that kind of stuff to be really de-motivating. If we want Gentoo to improve, we need to start by making Gentoo development fun again for the devs. There are very few people who consider being called a fscking retard or c*ck to be much fun. |
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Polyhead
n00b
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:04 am Post subject: Re: Media-Radio/GMFSK |
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| pjp wrote: | | Polyhead wrote: | | This is a big problem [...] Removing this package will force me to move to using a different distro, o rmove back to windows. |
For how long?
| CompNerd wrote: | | GNOME 1.x is no longer supported by upstream GNOME developers. |
Gnome is doing the removal here. I think its a pain too (because yesterday I didn't have to deal with it), but this isn't really a Gentoo issue.
| Polyhead wrote: | | My faith in this distro is failing, it'll be back to slackware if this sort of garbage continues. Your devs are getting far far far to picky, and need to just suck it up, and serve the community, |
You seem to forget that OSS is about volunteering. Again, I'm not thrilled with having to deal with this right now either, but this isn't solely a Gentoo issue.
| Polyhead wrote: | | if they want to serve themselves, they can do it in the shower. |
If you are unable to find community support (e.g., an unofficial overlay for the package(s) that you need) then perhaps it is time for you to find a distro that will maintain support. There's no reason to get nasty about it.
Of course, there is another alternative. You could try to attract a developer to maintain the software you want by offering them money. |
yea ok, what, i can offer about $20. Thats about what i have left over at the end of a month. I don't have any damn money, jese, sorry i'm fucking poor. Thanks for rubbing it in. Should I call you massa' and polish your floors now?
It is NOT a gentoo issue at all. So what, upstream stoped development, no big deal, what is there will continue to function for some time to come. Use it until then. Especially considering the season. |
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pjp
Administrator
Joined: 16 Apr 2002
Posts: 15989
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: Re: Media-Radio/GMFSK |
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Since it looks like you quoted me before I edited...
| pjp wrote: | EDIT:
Oh, and another outbreak like the following, and you'll get a break from the forums. Now would be a good time to read the forum guidelines (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't register this account to prevent your real identity from getting a temporary ban).
| Polyhead wrote: | | What notice?? a posting in some corner of a fucking forum is NOT notice. on the front page of the website is where this belongs. Second of all, 30 days is not notice at all you fucking retards. 30days is not enough time for aplications to be fixed so that they can run on gtk2. When your making big moves like this, there should be atleast 90 days notice given, if not 6 months. |
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Polyhead
n00b
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:10 am Post subject: Re: Media-Radio/GMFSK |
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[qoute]Oh, and another outbreak like the following, and you'll get a break from the forums. Now would be a good time to read the forum guidelines (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't register this account to prevent your real identity from getting a temporary ban).
| Polyhead wrote: | | What notice?? a posting in some corner of a fucking forum is NOT notice. on the front page of the website is where this belongs. Second of all, 30 days is not notice at all you fucking retards. 30days is not enough time for aplications to be fixed so that they can run on gtk2. When your making big moves like this, there should be atleast 90 days notice given, if not 6 months. |
[/quote]
Not that it matters, becuase if i don't have GMFSK, i have to switch distros. I have been with gentoo since 2000, i don't really want to. |
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Polyhead
n00b
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: |
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[quote=Polyhead]You've given people notice that they need to update their software[/quote]
The last gmfsk release was over two years ago. The rest of the world has moved on to Gnome 2.x. Why haven't "they" (whoever "they" is supposed to be). Do you really think they are just waiting until the Christmas rush is over?
If it isn't broken, why shoudl they fix it? It hasn't been updated in two years becuase it has NO bugs. It has NO problems, there is NOTHING wrong with it, it really is absolutly perfect for the task at hand. |
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Gergan Penkov
Veteran
Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 1464
Location: das kleinste Kuhdorf Deutschlands :)
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:15 am Post subject: |
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For the sake of the truth, I just visited http://gmfsk.connect.fi/index.html and this thing uses gnome-2:
| Code: | if test "x$enable_hamlib" = "xyes"; then
pkg_modules="libgnomeui-2.0 hamlib"
else
pkg_modules="libgnomeui-2.0"
fi
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so if it is masked because it uses gnome-1 just file a bug about a dependancy problem in the ebuild and incorrect masking.
_________________
"I knew when an angel whispered into my ear,
You gotta get him away, yeah
Hey little bitch!
Be glad you finally walked away or you may have not lived another day."
Godsmack |
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Polyhead
n00b
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| Gergan Penkov wrote: | For the sake of the truth, I just visited http://gmfsk.connect.fi/index.html and this thing uses gnome-2:
| Code: | if test "x$enable_hamlib" = "xyes"; then
pkg_modules="libgnomeui-2.0 hamlib"
else
pkg_modules="libgnomeui-2.0"
fi
|
so if it is masked because it uses gnome-1 just file a bug about a dependancy problem in the ebuild and incorrect masking. |
I can't, i'm still ban from bugzilla from adamantly aposing XMMS removal. |
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richfish
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 202
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| Polyhead wrote: |
I can't, i'm still ban from bugzilla from adamantly aposing XMMS removal. |
Can you copy the ebuild to your overlay, remove the depend on gnome-libs, re-digest it, re-merge it, then remove gnome-libs? If gmfsk still works for you then, post your emerge --info, and I'll file a bug.
FYI, I am currently building it on my system, but since I don't use gnome, it is going to take a while to build.
[edit] I added a bug for you. https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155541
Last edited by richfish on Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Polyhead
n00b
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| richfish wrote: | | Polyhead wrote: |
I can't, i'm still ban from bugzilla from adamantly aposing XMMS removal. |
Can you copy the ebuild to your overlay, remove the depend on gnome-libs, re-digest it, re-merge it, then remove gnome-libs? If gmfsk still works for you then, post your emerge --info, and I'll file a bug.
FYI, I am currently building it on my system, but since I don't use gnome, it is going to take a while to build. |
If i had a clue how to do such i thing i suppose I could. If you want to take this to email or keep it here i'm willing to try it, ineed to try it while i can still reinstall it if it doesn't work. I need to be told how to. For now i've just use package.unmask to keep it around. |
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beandog
Developer
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 1948
Location: /usa/utah
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Polyhead wrote: | | richfish wrote: | | Polyhead wrote: |
I can't, i'm still ban from bugzilla from adamantly aposing XMMS removal. |
Can you copy the ebuild to your overlay, remove the depend on gnome-libs, re-digest it, re-merge it, then remove gnome-libs? If gmfsk still works for you then, post your emerge --info, and I'll file a bug.
FYI, I am currently building it on my system, but since I don't use gnome, it is going to take a while to build. |
If i had a clue how to do such i thing i suppose I could. If you want to take this to email or keep it here i'm willing to try it, ineed to try it while i can still reinstall it if it doesn't work. I need to be told how to. For now i've just use package.unmask to keep it around. |
While I can sympathize with stuff getting removed from the tree that you are using, I have to point out that you'd cause a lot less stress to yourself if instead of getting all bunched about about gentoo policy, it would be easier to simply say "Hey, this package is getting removed from the tree .. can someone tell me how I can keep it on my system after its removed?"
Obviously, not knowing how to do that can cause a lot of frustration, so here's what to google for: 'gentoo' and 'overlay'
The first link goes to the Gentoo wiki: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Installing_3rd_Party_Ebuilds
That should get you pushed in the right direction.
Good luck
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Polyhead
n00b
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| beandog wrote: |
While I can sympathize with stuff getting removed from the tree that you are using, I have to point out that you'd cause a lot less stress to yourself if instead of getting all bunched about about gentoo policy, it would be easier to simply say "Hey, this package is getting removed from the tree .. can someone tell me how I can keep it on my system after its removed?"
Obviously, not knowing how to do that can cause a lot of frustration, so here's what to google for: 'gentoo' and 'overlay'
The first link goes to the Gentoo wiki: http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Installing_3rd_Party_Ebuilds
That should get you pushed in the right direction.
Good luck |
Well the problem in all of this is, there isn't a single good reason for removing things that are not broken. I already see a problem with this "overlay" system. Once the ebuilds are goine, your fucked, game over, if you didn't save the ebuild, and nobody has it lying around, its just tough shit, you'll have to use a distro that has it, or try to dig it up somewhere. The issue with this is, how many hams use linux?? 1000?? 2000 maybe? How many use gentoo?? I bet there are probably less than 20 hams that use gentoo linux. The chances of the ebuild sticking around after it is removed from portage is slim to none. Its very specialized software, for a very very specialized purpose, and i fealt lucky that it was in portage in the first place. Its not just that its my favorite being removed here, its that it is the ONLY choice out there, it really is all there is, there is no replacment software. So this isn't just that I use it, it is there is NO other choice out there to make, other than choose a different distrobution once it disapears.
From the looks of things, keeping an overlay on my machine is just out of the question, its just too much maintenence, I'll just have to switch distros, go back to slackware from wence I came, probably should have never left it. Last version i used was slackware 7, the first I used was 2.x with an early 2.0.x kernel, installed from disk sets, i'm not exacltly a n00b. I just fealt gentoo was a cool mix of bsd and linux components.
I just don't have the time to maintain an overlay, I simply work too much. |
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mark_alec
Bodhisattva
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 6066
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Polyhead wrote: | | Well the problem in all of this is, there isn't a single good reason for removing things that are not broken. I already see a problem with this "overlay" system. Once the ebuilds are goine, your fucked, game over, if you didn't save the ebuild, and nobody has it lying around, its just tough shit, you'll have to use a distro that has it, or try to dig it up somewhere. |
The ebuild never disappears; one can always find past ebuilds by browsing http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/
| Polyhead wrote: | From the looks of things, keeping an overlay on my machine is just out of the question, its just too much maintenence
<snip>
I just don't have the time to maintain an overlay, I simply work too much. |
Once you setup the overlay (simple involves creating a few directories, adding the necessary files etc.) you never need to touch it again.. Also can't you see that if you are not prepared to create an overlay for ONE program that you need, you can't expect volunteers (Gentoo devs) to maintain something they don't care about.
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mark_alec
Bodhisattva
Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 6066
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: |
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| ChangeLog for media-radio/gmfsk wrote: | 18 Nov 2006; Joshua Baergen <joshuabaergen@gentoo.org> gmfsk-0.6.ebuild,
gmfsk-0.6-r1.ebuild:
Modify dependencies so that gmfsk will work without Gnome 1.x. Thanks to dang
for pointing out that this should be possible. Compiles/runs here. |
Seems like this issue has been resolved as the masking was removed.
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richfish
Apprentice
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 202
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| mark_alec wrote: |
Seems like this issue has been resolved as the masking was removed. |
Heh, he beat my bug report by 13min.  |
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Genone
Retired Dev
Joined: 14 Mar 2003
Posts: 8690
Location: beyond the rim
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:14 am Post subject: Re: [Complaints] GNOME 1.x no longer supported upstream |
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| Polyhead wrote: | | Removing this package will force me to move to using a different distro, o rmove back to windows. |
So switch to a different distro then. You act like we care what distro you use.
| Polyhead wrote: | | screw that, Its as much my distro as anyone elses, |
Really? I think you're rather alone with that opinion. |
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PaulBredbury
Watchman
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 6609
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Polyhead wrote: | | I just don't have the time to maintain an overlay |
Excuse me while I laugh my head off. I can't laugh that much and type at the same time. But I can write a line of bash code, rather than rant:
| Code: | find /usr/local/portage/ -name \*.ebuild | wc -l
355 |
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Polyhead
n00b
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| well great, fantastick good for you, tell me, why is that not in your how to. |
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Polyhead
n00b
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| mark_alec wrote: | | ChangeLog for media-radio/gmfsk wrote: | 18 Nov 2006; Joshua Baergen <joshuabaergen@gentoo.org> gmfsk-0.6.ebuild,
gmfsk-0.6-r1.ebuild:
Modify dependencies so that gmfsk will work without Gnome 1.x. Thanks to dang
for pointing out that this should be possible. Compiles/runs here. |
Seems like this issue has been resolved as the masking was removed. |
Thanks guys, and sorry about all the mud slinging, but like i told dang, if I didn't, NOBODY would listen, NOBODY would care. Its just some old peice of ham software, and linux devs for the most part just see ham radio as a dead hobby that they shouldn't give any thought too. So unless i come in screaming and ranting, nobody would have ever done anything.
Thanks again guys. |
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PaulBredbury
Watchman
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 6609
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Polyhead wrote: | | unless i come in screaming and ranting |
Gotta be kidding me. Sober up, and realize that you're having the opposite effect. |
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Polyhead
n00b
Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| PaulBredbury wrote: | | Polyhead wrote: | | unless i come in screaming and ranting |
Gotta be kidding me. Sober up, and realize that you're having the opposite effect. |
I wish that were the case, but I honestly feel gmfsk would have been removed had i not made so much noise about it. Nobody would have cared. Nobody would have even noticed. I don't have the skill to work things out one way or the other, or the money to motivate anyone to look into such things. All I can do is scream as loud and as hard as I can, and hope i annoy someone enough, that they will look into it just prove me a twat, and just to hate me. I don't care if i'm hated, so long as the results are to the benefit of everyone. |
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