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UberPinguin
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 Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: How to Make System Completely UTF-8??? |
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I know that there are a couple of wiki pages on converting to UTF, and more than a few topics in the forums. However, after reading through and tweaking things for a few hours I'm still not satisfied. Plus, most of the information seems to be out of date.
Basically, I am using a US QWERTY laptop keyboard (I think it falls under the 105-key umbrella, but am honestly not sure; at least, setting "XkbModel" "pc105" in xorg.conf seems to work OK - but so does pc104). I want to be able to enter accented characters without using a charmap program to copy and paste (i.e. typed directly from the keyboard). I also want to be able to display accented characters in all of my applications. Ideally, I would also like the agetty terminals launched on boot to also take accented characters, but that is probably just a pipe dream 
The way things stand now, I can enter accented characters in uxterm by holding down ALT while pressing a letter. But this does not work in OpenOffice or Firefox. Also, accented characters show up as black diamonds with question marks in them in Firefox.
My settings thus far: | Code: | Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Keyboard0"
Driver "kbd"
Option "AutoRepeat" "500 50"
Option "XkbModel" "pc105"
Option "XkbOptions" "grp:alt_shift_toggle,grp_led:scroll"
Option "XkbRules" "xorg"
Option "XkbLayout" "us"
EndSection |
/etc/rc.conf:/etc/env.d/02locale: | Code: | LANG=en_US.UTF-8
LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 |
Relevant USE flags, set globally: | Code: | | nls unicode userlocales |
/etc/conf.d/consolefont: | Code: | # /etc/conf.d/consolefont
CONSOLEFONT="lat9w-16"
CONSOLETRANSLATION="8859-1_to_uni" |
/etc/conf.d/keymaps: | Code: | KEYMAP="us"
EXTENDED_KEYMAPS=""
DUMPKEYS_CHARSET="iso-8859-1" |
/usr/src/linux/.config: | Code: | CONFIG_UDF_NLS=y
CONFIG_SMB_NLS_DEFAULT=y
CONFIG_SMB_NLS_REMOTE="cp437"
CONFIG_NCPFS_NLS=y
CONFIG_NLS=y
CONFIG_NLS_DEFAULT="iso-8859-1"
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_437=y
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_737=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_775=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_850=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_852=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_855=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_857=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_860=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_861=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_862=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_863=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_864=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_865=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_866=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_869=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_936=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_950=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_932=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_949=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_874=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_8=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_1250=m
CONFIG_NLS_CODEPAGE_1251=m
CONFIG_NLS_ASCII=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_1=y
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_2=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_3=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_4=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_5=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_6=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_7=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_9=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_13=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_14=m
CONFIG_NLS_ISO8859_15=m
CONFIG_NLS_KOI8_R=m
CONFIG_NLS_KOI8_U=m
CONFIG_NLS_UTF8=y |
I think that's everything...it's all kind of a blur right now 
Any helpful input would be appreciated. I'd really like to get this all working, then possibly use the knowledge gained to update the wiki.
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| aidanjt wrote: | | You see, instead of arguing from ignorance, and fear, there is only one way to verify a theory. And that's not by clutching a black book and begging the sky fairy for deliverance from the mad scientists and their big machines. |
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sonicbhoc
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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CONFIG_NLS_DEFAULT should be utf8.
Also, double-check your /etc/env.d/02locale with the available output from locale -a. |
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wynn
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| UberPinguin wrote: | /etc/conf.d/keymaps: | Code: | | DUMPKEYS_CHARSET="iso-8859-1" |
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| Code: | | DUMPKEYS_CHARSET="iso-10646-18" |
seems more appropriate, particularly (I think I remember) when running "make menuconfig" in a virtual console.
In X, you can use the built in key combinations you will find in the output ofYou can redirect the output into a file and tinker with it. You should put your edited file in your home directory and call it .Xmodmap. It should then be loaded automatically the next time X is started.
For instance, the lines | Code: | keycode 32 = o O oslash Ooblique oslash Ooblique
keycode 33 = p P thorn THORN thorn THORN |
give you "o" for the okey, "O" for Shift-okey, ø for AltGr-okey and à for Shift-AltGr-okey. Similarly for the pkey and thorn.
Accents are using dead keys | Code: | | keycode 48 = apostrophe at dead_circumflex dead_caron dead_circumflex dead_caron |
gives you ô (o-circumflex) with AltGr-<apostrophe> o, press AltGr and apostrophe, release and then press o.
Note: AltGr is keycode 161 and is entered in xmodmap as Mode_switch. You can, if you like â it isn't doing anything â change RWINL (Right Windows LOGO key) to be the Mode_switch.
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Last edited by wynn on Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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UberPinguin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| sonicbhoc wrote: | CONFIG_NLS_DEFAULT should be utf8.
Also, double-check your /etc/env.d/02locale with the available output from locale -a. |
I had a funny feeling that would be the case, just as I hit 'Submit' 
Recompiling now.
locale -a returns | Code: | C
en_US
en_US.utf8
POSIX |
So I think I should be alright on that front.
| wynn wrote: | | UberPinguin wrote: | /etc/conf.d/keymaps: | Code: | | DUMPKEYS_CHARSET="iso-8859-1" |
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| Code: | | DUMPKEYS_CHARSET="iso-10646-18" |
seems more appropriate, particularly (I think I remember) when running "make menuconfig" in a virtual console. |
Why 10646-18? Isn't that the Ethiopic character set?
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| aidanjt wrote: | | You see, instead of arguing from ignorance, and fear, there is only one way to verify a theory. And that's not by clutching a black book and begging the sky fairy for deliverance from the mad scientists and their big machines. |
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UberPinguin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the _incredibly_ informative reply, wynn. My xmodmap has keycode 93 associated with Mode_switch for some reason. How do I find out where these key codes map to physically on my keyboard?
[EDIT] Never mind, xev is helping out with that. However, my ~/.Xmodmap is not being used. I tried manually setting things like so: | Code: | ubrpngn@UberPinguin ~ $ xmodmap -e "keycode 93 = "
ubrpngn@UberPinguin ~ $ xmodmap -e "keycode 115 = Mode_switch |
So now when I press the left Windows key with xev, I get: | Code: | KeyPress event, serial 31, synthetic NO, window 0x1000001,
root 0x4d, subw 0x0, time 3451239665, (83,91), root:(2051,933),
state 0x10, keycode 115 (keysym 0xff7e, Mode_switch), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XmbLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False
KeyRelease event, serial 31, synthetic NO, window 0x1000001,
root 0x4d, subw 0x0, time 3451239793, (83,91), root:(2051,933),
state 0x10, keycode 115 (keysym 0xff7e, Mode_switch), same_screen YES,
XLookupString gives 0 bytes:
XFilterEvent returns: False |
And now I can use that key to type the accented characters. So far so good (sort of...)
Outstanding issues: ~/.Xmodmap is not loading, so the keys still require manual mapping.
There doesn't seem to be a default mapping of accented characters, so unless I explicitly map them I still don't get the desired output. Is there a pre-configured map that already has these accented characters configured?
_________________
| aidanjt wrote: | | You see, instead of arguing from ignorance, and fear, there is only one way to verify a theory. And that's not by clutching a black book and begging the sky fairy for deliverance from the mad scientists and their big machines. |
Last edited by UberPinguin on Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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wynn
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| UberPinguin wrote: | | Why 10646-18? Isn't that the Ethiopic character set? |
Very good! Caught me completely on the hop. | Code: | | { "iso-10646-18", iso_10646_18_syms, 159 }, /* ethiopic */ |
and | Quote: | | So I guess the "18" comes from the fact that Ethiopic starts in row 18 (= 0x12) of plane 0 of group 0 of ISO 10646. |
Made my day 
| UberPinguin wrote: | | Thanks for the _incredibly_ informative reply, wynn. |
I'm glad you found it useful, I tend to ramble on a bit, you know ... | UberPinguin wrote: | | My xmodmap has keycode 93 associated with Mode_switch for some reason. How do I find out where these key codes map to physically on my keyboard? |
I have used x11-misc/xkeycaps, you select the keyboard type and all the codes are shown. There's also a way of capturing keyboard events but I can't find a reference to it.
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UberPinguin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Heh...looks like we passed each other in the night. Please have a second look at the post immediately preceding your last reply.
Thanks!
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| aidanjt wrote: | | You see, instead of arguing from ignorance, and fear, there is only one way to verify a theory. And that's not by clutching a black book and begging the sky fairy for deliverance from the mad scientists and their big machines. |
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wynn
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| UberPinguin wrote: | | Never mind, xev is helping out with that. |
That's it, I couldn't remember it. | UberPinguin wrote: | | However, my ~/.Xmodmap is not being used. |
I am pretty sure you need to exit X and restart it to get ~/.Xmodmap to be used by xmodmap. /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc has | Code: | usermodmap=$HOME/.Xmodmap
...
if [ -f $usermodmap ]; then
xmodmap $usermodmap
fi
... |
| UberPinguin wrote: | | There doesn't seem to be a default mapping of accented characters, so unless I explicitly map them I still don't get the desired output. Is there a pre-configured map that already has these accented characters configured? |
Yes, the Ubuntu xmodmap.us does seem a little thin. If you can get hold of Ubuntu, you could look at some European xmodmaps but it may need some editing to get some ordinary characters to appear in the usual place.
However, if you want something like oslash and thorn directly, not via dead keys, here are some keysyms gleaned from the fine collection of xmodmaps that Ubuntu supplies | Quote: | | eacute egrave ccedilla Ccedilla udiaeresis odiaeresis adiaeresis Udiaeresis Odiaeresis Adiaeresis |
and some the aspiring international writer would not be without | Quote: | | agrave ugrave yacute aacute iacute uacute |
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UberPinguin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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I've restarted X a few times, and ~/.Xmodmap is still not loading 
My head's starting to spin a little - I thought this would be a pretty simple thing to get running
Not being a trained linguist, I have no idea what many of these accenting terms mean; that doesn't make it any easier to hand-modify the maps.
AAArgh. Too many characters! How do you map them logically, when a given key can only handle so many mappings? Is there a way to add another modifier so that, for instance, | Code: | | keycode 32 = o O oslash Ooblique odiaeresis Odiaeresis |
would allow me to use 'o' and one or two modifying keys for 'o O ø à ö Ã' ? I tried just defining the keycode and using [LWIN][LALT][o], but that doesn't seem to work.
Also, running 'xmodmap .Xmodmap' allows me to test the layout as I go. Now I just need to find out why it's not loading at login.
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| aidanjt wrote: | | You see, instead of arguing from ignorance, and fear, there is only one way to verify a theory. And that's not by clutching a black book and begging the sky fairy for deliverance from the mad scientists and their big machines. |
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sonicbhoc
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| UberPinguin wrote: |
locale -a returns | Code: | C
en_US
en_US.utf8
POSIX |
So I think I should be alright on that front.
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in /etc/env.d/02locale, change it to say:
LC_ALL="en_US.utf8"
LANG="en_US.utf8"
exactly as it says in locale -a. |
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wynn
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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| UberPinguin wrote: | | Not being a trained linguist, I have no idea what many of these accenting terms mean; that doesn't make it any easier to hand-modify the maps. |
diaeresis is two dots over the letter, cedilla is a little sickle underneath the letter, the grave accent is an apostrophe which slopes to the left and the acute accent slopes to the right. | UberPinguin wrote: | AAArgh. Too many characters! How do you map them logically, when a given key can only handle so many mappings? Is there a way to add another modifier so that, for instance, | Code: | | keycode 32 = o O oslash Ooblique odiaeresis Odiaeresis |
would allow me to use 'o' and one or two modifying keys for 'o O ø à ö Ã' ? I tried just defining the keycode and using [LWIN][LALT][o], but that doesn't seem to work. |
You mean like this:oOøÃöÃ?
Yes, as you can see from the examples, you can have six characters on each key, which is divided into three levels of two characters.
The first level is the ordinary level, you get the first two characters: a and A; the second level you get by using Mode_switch with the key and shift+key giving you the fourth and fifth characters: æ Ã; the third level you get by using ISO_Level3_Shift in the same way as Mode_switch but you get the fifth and sixth characters: æ à (no change).
Very nice, I've tried it and it works â unfortunately, something has gone wrong with the font in mrxvt and endash (â), emdash (â) among others, don't display a character when pressed.
I've pasted my .Xmodmap to pastebin.ca and you can download it using http://pastebin.ca/raw/244416 is you like. It expires in 23 hours 58 minutes 
| UberPinguin wrote: | | Also, running 'xmodmap .Xmodmap' allows me to test the layout as I go. |
That's interesting, I was convinced that wouldn't work but I've just tried it and it does! | UberPinguin wrote: | | Now I just need to find out why it's not loading at login. |
Have you checked xinitrc? Does your window manager/desktop run it or does it have its own version?
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UberPinguin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, you've been most helpful. I think I'll tweak your xmodmap to my evil ends  and keep on playing until I've got it just right.
Yes, xinitrc is supposed to be loading $HOME/.Xmodmap. I'm not sure whether e17 loads its own or not. Since I'm the only one who uses this machine, I'll probably just put the finished result in /usr/share/xmodmap/xmodmap.us and be done with it.
Final results to follow!
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| aidanjt wrote: | | You see, instead of arguing from ignorance, and fear, there is only one way to verify a theory. And that's not by clutching a black book and begging the sky fairy for deliverance from the mad scientists and their big machines. |
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wynn
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| UberPinguin wrote: | | Since I'm the only one who uses this machine, I'll probably just put the finished result in /usr/share/xmodmap/xmodmap.us and be done with it. |
Are you sure it uses xmodmap.us and not plain xmodmap? And does it actually load anything from /usr/share/xmodmap/? On this machine there is no default xmodmap file.
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Paapaa
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Unless you are using FAT or NTFS you really don't need any support in kernel. You can safely remove the whole NLS support from kernel. |
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UberPinguin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Curses. You're right, of course: changing /usr/share/xmodmap/xmodmap.us does nothing useful.
There aren't enough keys on my laptop to make the ISO_Level3_Shift work. Oh, and apparently uxterm uses its own keymapping - using 'alt' will get accented characters with a completely different map, the location of which is a mystery. It will also work with the .Xmodmap settings, so I can essentially take advantage of two different keyboard mappings from uxterm. But I only have control over one ATM.
[rant]
Bleaarrgh. Why can't there just be one, central, simple map file for the whole system? I mean, come on - using different keymaps for xkb, xmodmap, gtk and the console? Oh, and I've looked at the formatting for xkb maps. 
[/rant]
:sigh:
We really should come up with some central system so that during install you can specify your locale, language, keyboard, charset and whether you want deadkeys. The rest of the install process should conform to these preferences and configure everything to follow them, especially the keymaps - which should be laid out in a logical manner based on locale and keyboard. Ideally, there would be a flag or config value somewhere you could change at a later date, with a corresponding command or utility that would then reconfigure the system to conform to your new locale/language/layout. The goal being system-wide keymap/charmap consistency. The present 'system' (terrifying maze is more apt) is a complete mess. If anyone wants to code this, I'd be happy to contribute. My own skills as a programmer are sadly lacking, but I can help test/debug things.
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| aidanjt wrote: | | You see, instead of arguing from ignorance, and fear, there is only one way to verify a theory. And that's not by clutching a black book and begging the sky fairy for deliverance from the mad scientists and their big machines. |
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UberPinguin
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Paapaa wrote: | | Unless you are using FAT or NTFS you really don't need any support in kernel. You can safely remove the whole NLS support from kernel. |
Yeah, but as it's already in there and not hurting anything I think I'll leave it alone for the moment.
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| aidanjt wrote: | | You see, instead of arguing from ignorance, and fear, there is only one way to verify a theory. And that's not by clutching a black book and begging the sky fairy for deliverance from the mad scientists and their big machines. |
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Paapaa
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| UberPinguin wrote: | | Paapaa wrote: | | Unless you are using FAT or NTFS you really don't need any support in kernel. You can safely remove the whole NLS support from kernel. |
Yeah, but as it's already in there and not hurting anything I think I'll leave it alone for the moment. |
Yes, of course: no harm besides slight bloat. The point was only that you don't need any kernel support to use UTF-8 in Linux. Many people believe they need the support but that only applies if you use FAT/NTFS. With ext2/3 (and most likely many other FSs) kernel NLS support is not needed. So you can safely remove the support next time you update your kernel.
Less bloat means:
1. Smaller kernel image.
2. Faster kernel loading.
3. Less buggy code. |
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wynn
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| UberPinguin wrote: |
We really should come up with some central system so that during install you can specify your locale, language, keyboard, charset and whether you want deadkeys. The rest of the install process should conform to these preferences and configure everything to follow them, especially the keymaps - which should be laid out in a logical manner based on locale and keyboard. Ideally, there would be a flag or config value somewhere you could change at a later date, with a corresponding command or utility that would then reconfigure the system to conform to your new locale/language/layout. The goal being system-wide keymap/charmap consistency. The present 'system' (terrifying maze is more apt) is a complete mess. |
I think this system already exists, they call it Ubuntu
I think that desktops like KDE and Gnome do this â but you have to stay within the desktop and its compatible apps. To get everything to speak together would be like reversing the Tower of Babel.
However, the general move from iso-8859-xx to UTF-8 has only just started. Eventually everything will use it and your wish will be granted. "Live long and prosper".
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UberPinguin
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| wynn wrote: | ....I think this system already exists, they call it Ubuntu
I think that desktops like KDE and Gnome do this â but you have to stay within the desktop and its compatible apps. To get everything to speak together would be like reversing the Tower of Babel.
However, the general move from iso-8859-xx to UTF-8 has only just started. Eventually everything will use it and your wish will be granted. "Live long and prosper". |
Yeah, after posting I started really thinking about how the idea could be implemented - and nearly drove an ice pick through my temple. I may have to give Ubuntu a look. I don't think I'm likely to switch from Gentoo, but perhaps I could analyze how the folks at Ubuntu have achieved their UTF-8 integration and replicate it.
The main frustration isn't so much converting to UTF-8 itself - that part was pretty easy and well-documented, except that there are still some characters that don't display correctly. I'd tell you what they are, but I don't know because they don't display .
The problem is then setting up the keyboard so that you can actually use it. Especially with the limited keyboards sold in the US, even more so on notebooks. Then, of course, there's the myriad of different keycode maps, depending on what model from what manufacturer you are using.
Bah. Enough ranting. I'm off to do some work toward solving this...
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| aidanjt wrote: | | You see, instead of arguing from ignorance, and fear, there is only one way to verify a theory. And that's not by clutching a black book and begging the sky fairy for deliverance from the mad scientists and their big machines. |
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bszente
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: How to Make System Completely UTF-8??? |
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| UberPinguin wrote: | Relevant USE flags, set globally: | Code: | | nls unicode userlocales |
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Don't forget slang. Afaik, MC and other console based applications need it in order to function correctly in UNICODE enabled terminals. |
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UberPinguin
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: How to Make System Completely UTF-8??? |
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| bszente wrote: | | UberPinguin wrote: | Relevant USE flags, set globally: | Code: | | nls unicode userlocales |
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Don't forget slang. Afaik, MC and other console based applications need it in order to function correctly in UNICODE enabled terminals. |
Thank you, I had forgotten about that one. Yes, it's set in make.conf.
I've got a decently functional .Xmodmap, I'm just working on how to get it to load globally and by default.
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| aidanjt wrote: | | You see, instead of arguing from ignorance, and fear, there is only one way to verify a theory. And that's not by clutching a black book and begging the sky fairy for deliverance from the mad scientists and their big machines. |
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Desktop Environments
