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Zubzub
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donman wrote:
I have no reason currently to switch from Gentoo, I have never had frustrating problems with it. Maybe because I am a patient person. But if I was to switch, I would probably go to Linux From Scratch. That is the only other 'distribution' that lets you learn so much, IMHO. Secondly would be Fedora Core, then probably Debian, one of the *BSD's, then Solaris.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: What distribution will *YOU* switch to? Reply with quote

rambam wrote:
Gentoo seems to be increasingly a flaky, hobbyist distribution. That was fine for me, when I was still a hobbyist, but these days, I use my linux boxes to do things that earn me money. The downtime I experience from yet another unanticipated set of sideeffects from a poorly publicised Gentoo change, has finally convinced me that it is time to move on.


QFT.

It used to be that a system update made my system more stable, now every update I do fixes 1 bug and causes 2. Of course when I installed Gentoo I wanted to be bleeding edge, now I just want everything to work right the first time (and of course me definition of right is relative). So I suppose some of my frustration stems from the fact that my needs have changed. Though when an update breaks my adobe acrobat plugin and nobody can help, I get a trifle irked. When an update resets my settings, like the gtk theme, I get irritated. When I see blocking packages that halt portage, even though the update will remove the block, I get annoyed. When packages that were marked stable get reset to masked, especially when they've been stable for months or years, I get really annoyed. When portage can't figure out what dependencies need to be updated, I get downright mad. I may try Ubuntu and see what everyone is talking about, or perhaps a BSD variant. We'll see where this latest emerge -uD --newuse world goes.

Oh well, that's enough ranting.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think if I ever leave gentoo, I would go with nexenta. It uses solaris kernel and ubuntu userland. It boots in 20 seconds inside a VMWare VM, and is plenty fast. ZFS is something really to look forward to. I was really impressed with it when I booted it under VMWare some time back. Only problem is that its just starting and it will take a while to get mature though.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently left for Debian, still got Gentoo left on my server. Reason: Gentoo forced to much things on me.

What I miss most, though it might be that I haven't adjusted yet, is that terminal output from apt-get etc is not color coded. It has actually worse readability than emerge with out colors. Then again, I've just started my adjusting to Debian (a week ago).

Also I really miss the good documenation of gentoo. With the wiki, this forum etc. Sure, Debians documentation/forum is not void, but not as nice as Gentoos. :)
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had a gentoo myth box that's been in "production" for around 2 years. I use it my gf uses it, when it goes down it's an awful pain in the ass. However, I'm obsessive, having lots of updates in my world sync bugs the hell out of me. This makes me frequently (unnecessarily) update, this causes problems. I'm my own worst enemy. If i was to switch it'd probably be to ubuntu - i've got xubuntu on a laptop and it's quite nice (it just works). For me it's the forums that make gentoo excellent.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If Daniel had stayed, Gentoo could have become another Ubuntu.


I hope not. Ubuntu and Gentoo have different audiences. Gentoo users want to control their systems. Ubuntu users want to pop in a CD and have a sensible default install. You don't buy a 2-seater sports car and then complain that it doesn't have room for a baby seat.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Karlhungus wrote:
However, I'm obsessive, having lots of updates in my world sync bugs the hell out of me. This makes me frequently (unnecessarily) update, this causes problems. I'm my own worst enemy.

So is it fair to say one the problems with Gentoo is its users then? :P

massysett wrote:
I hope not. Ubuntu and Gentoo have different audiences. Gentoo users want to control their systems. Ubuntu users want to pop in a CD and have a sensible default install. You don't buy a 2-seater sports car and then complain that it doesn't have room for a baby seat.

I've been saying that for ages, but some people just don't get it.
Same as users that complain that compiling takes longer than installing a binary, duh. :)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had to switch from Gentoo I would most likely go back to Slackware. However, as long as Gentoo works as well as it has for me I have no plans of leaving anytime soon. What I have found though is that I have less problems running a purely ~x86 than I have had with running x86 stable. Why that is I don't know, it is just the way it works for me. Gentoo is still the best Linux available;
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Headrush wrote:
So is it fair to say one the problems with Gentoo is its users then? :P


I know after using Gentoo for 3 years I still suffer many PEBKAC and ID10T errors.

I want a bugfix for it. :P
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have said Slackware, since that was the first distro that I used extensively. But then Pat decided to drop Gnome, and I didn't like Dropline terribly, as it tainted the system more than I cared. That, and I had to manually compile mplayer, which was/is such a common app that it should've been part of their package database.

Now, I'd probably try out SuSE, Debian, or Ubuntu, but more likely Debian or SuSE. I've been leery of Fedora Core ever since it messed up my partition table so that Partition Magic and Drive Image couldn't read anything any more, and Yast and apt have good reputations.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't tried any of the latest versions of other linux distros lately. The last one was Ubuntu about 1 1/2 years ago. I've been pretty happy with Gentoo in the long run and have even put it on a few other people's machines and now maintain them as well. Occasionally I run into a pretty big problem with the maintained machines, but I've been able to deal with all of them so far, due to the forums and documentation. Very good support available here makes Gentoo worthwile. I wish the search worked a little better on the forums, but I'm not complaining.

I have donated to Gentoo to support all the good work I've seen since I started using it. I have it installed on 3 of my 8 computers, and the ratio is slowly climbing. If I could just get the digital camera to work like it does in winxp, I'd switch my wife's pc back to Gentoo today.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I'd stay away from "official" versions of SUSE, as the latest moves by Novell (in conjunction with Microsoft) are clearly devoted to driving a huge wedge between sections of the Linux user community. I'd also stay away from openSUSE for the moment, unless and until it becomes clear that openSUSE has been wrested safely far enough away from Novell that it isn't going to be tainted by any of the stuff MS and Novell have agreed on. I'm not the only one giving out this advice, either.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While gentoo has had it's ups and downs, and it's "political" problems, it has everything I need in a distrobution. It has a great learning tool, which is my primary use for linux. I break my box, then I fix it. I have it running on 3 different architectures (xbox, x86 and emt-64) and have used it on alpha and sparc. This is the kind of thing I look for.

As far as removing packages, well, I didn't use xmms so it doesn't bother me. If it did, I would just maintain it myself I guess that's what I have done in the past, if something wasn't supported by portage (did this with mono for a while).

At any rate, the only other distro I use regularly, is ubuntu, because it's easy to install, and it's great for n00bs.

I don't think gentoo is a n00b friendly distro, it is one of the harder distro's to maintain, and that's my reason for using it. I have been using it since the very begining, and fixing broken baselayouts, blocks and other portage problems has been a great learning experience for me.

What I don't like, is how many of the old timers have left due to the "political" climate. This forum used to be a much friendlier place than it can be now.

Anyway, "I'd rather fight than switch" (to quote an old cigarette add ....)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nevertheless, I think a lot of the "Gentoo is dead" stuff is overblown, don't you? If Linux survives the MS/Novell onslaught, then I think Gentoo will too.

And if not there's always Gentoo/BSD!
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garlik42 wrote:
I don't think gentoo is a n00b friendly distro, it is one of the harder distro's to maintain, and that's my reason for using it.


Gentoo is VERY n00b friendly. All of the technical parts of the maintenance and installation is automated. Gentoo simplifies everything.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Gentoo is noob-friendly too, but I think a lot of that comes down to the top-notch quality of the documentation. I think you'd be hard-pressed to say which of the Gentoo and FreeBSD documentation is better.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would probably leave because poor documentation of USE-flags. It's very frustrating compile something many times with diffrent flags and try to guess what makes thigs work the way you like.

I think Debian would be the way to go but I guess I'll stick with Gentoo. If I ever have a spare hd then I'll install Solaris as a third OS (my 1st so is Gentoo and 2nd is XP).
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vipernicus wrote:

Gentoo is VERY n00b friendly

Yes it is, 'til you remove all documentation available plus the graphical installer and through it in the hands of a newbie :twisted:

Now seriously: it's n00b friendly. Very much thanks to the very detailed and well written documentation and to this great community 8)
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unlucky_Alf wrote:
I would probably leave because poor documentation of USE-flags. It's very frustrating compile something many times with diffrent flags and try to guess what makes thigs work the way you like.

I think Debian would be the way to go but I guess I'll stick with Gentoo. If I ever have a spare hd then I'll install Solaris as a third OS (my 1st so is Gentoo and 2nd is XP).


check out www.gentoo-portage.com , very handy search site and shows what the USE flags generally do (much nicer than searching use.desc anyway).
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick C wrote:
Unlucky_Alf wrote:
I would probably leave because poor documentation of USE-flags. It's very frustrating compile something many times with diffrent flags and try to guess what makes thigs work the way you like.

I think Debian would be the way to go but I guess I'll stick with Gentoo. If I ever have a spare hd then I'll install Solaris as a third OS (my 1st so is Gentoo and 2nd is XP).


check out www.gentoo-portage.com , very handy search site and shows what the USE flags generally do (much nicer than searching use.desc anyway).


Alternatively run
Code:
equery u <package name>


For example

Code:
sempron2600 ~ # equery u inkscape
[ Searching for packages matching inkscape... ]
[ Colour Code : set unset ]
[ Legend        : Left column  (U) - USE flags from make.conf                    ]
[                  : Right column (I) - USE flags packages was installed with ]
[ Found these USE variables for media-gfx/inkscape-0.44.1 ]
 U I
 + + bonobo : Adds support for gnome-base/bonobo (Gnome CORBA interfaces)
 - - boost  : use external boost
 - - debug  : Tells configure and the makefiles to build for debugging. Effects vary across packages, but generally it will at least add -g to CFLAGS. Remember to set FEATURES=nostrip too
 - - doc    : Adds extra documentation (API, Javadoc, etc)
 + + gnome  : Adds GNOME support
 - - inkjar : enables inkjar support
 - - lcms   : Adds lcms support (color management engine)
 + + mmx    : Adds support for optimizations for Pentium MMX and Athlon class processors
 - - plugin : enables extra plugins
 + + spell  : Adds dictionary support
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although I'll never switch from Gentoo, if it were to suddenly stop existing, I'd switch to Arch. I used it for a while between Gentoo installs, and I loved it.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I was forced to leave gentoo, I would use kubuntu for desktop and probably slackware as my sandbox. I don't feel any one distro could replace gentoo for me. I would have chosen freebsd, but in the short time that I used it, I didn't figure out a way to fire and forget using ports. Gentoo I can emerge world and just let it run. Freebsd always stopped to ask me config questions for many of the ports.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nick C wrote:
Unlucky_Alf wrote:
I would probably leave because poor documentation of USE-flags. It's very frustrating compile something many times with diffrent flags and try to guess what makes thigs work the way you like.

I think Debian would be the way to go but I guess I'll stick with Gentoo. If I ever have a spare hd then I'll install Solaris as a third OS (my 1st so is Gentoo and 2nd is XP).


check out www.gentoo-portage.com , very handy search site and shows what the USE flags generally do (much nicer than searching use.desc anyway).


You can also use 'euse' as in
Code:

euse -i nsplugin

to see what a particular flag does.

Or
Code:

equery hasuse nsplugin

will give you a list of all the packages that use nsplugin keyword, for example.

But in some way you are right, gentoo portage query facilities not unified and often flaky.


Last edited by dmpogo on Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geniux wrote:
vipernicus wrote:

Gentoo is VERY n00b friendly

Yes it is, 'til you remove all documentation available plus the graphical installer and through it in the hands of a newbie :twisted:

Now seriously: it's n00b friendly. Very much thanks to the very detailed and well written documentation and to this great community 8)



Yes, I would say the community is way better then most, stop by the Ubuntu forums sometime, loads of questions, very very few actual answers. Don't know so much about the Install being noob-friendly though, 'course I still use my 2005.1 cds for installs.

I'd have to say, for a switch, OpenBSD, yeah its a server OS but has that stopped us before? It has amazing 802.11 wireless support, we're talking pop in a card (atheros is usually a winner) and boom works, right "out of the box" so to speak. With the release of 4.0 they added 2 more chipsets, with 2 being added previously in 3.9. I'd use it but I'm studying Linux in college so I figure I ought to stick with one thing for now.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Junglist wrote:

I'd have to say, for a switch, OpenBSD, yeah its a server OS but has that stopped us before?


I refuse to label anything as a server OS unless it actually runs well on at least two processors and preferably four That pretty much kills the BSD crowd for me though FreeBSD has show quite a bit of improvement in the 6.x series.

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