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cokehabit
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 Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: Devout Muslim found guilty of child cruelty |
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| Quote: | A devout Muslim has been found guilty of child cruelty after forcing two boys to beat themselves during a religious ceremony, in an unprecedented case.
The jury at Manchester Crown Court found 44-year-old Syed Mustafa Zaidi guilty of two counts of child cruelty.
The boys, aged 13 and 15, were forced to beat themselves with a zanjeer whip, with five curved blades.
Zaidi, of Station Road, Eccles, Salford, also flogged himself during the ceremony in January 2007.
The court heard the boys admit that they had wanted to beat themselves, but not under duress, and not with the curved blade whip. |
| Syed Mustafa Zaidi wrote: | | This is a part of our religion |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7584446.stm |
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Devout Muslim found guilty of child cruelty |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | Quote: | A devout Muslim has been found guilty of child cruelty after forcing two boys to beat themselves during a religious ceremony, in an unprecedented case.
The jury at Manchester Crown Court found 44-year-old Syed Mustafa Zaidi guilty of two counts of child cruelty.
The boys, aged 13 and 15, were forced to beat themselves with a zanjeer whip, with five curved blades.
Zaidi, of Station Road, Eccles, Salford, also flogged himself during the ceremony in January 2007.
The court heard the boys admit that they had wanted to beat themselves, but not under duress, and not with the curved blade whip. |
| Syed Mustafa Zaidi wrote: | | This is a part of our religion |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7584446.stm |
clix0r
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square_
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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difficult situation.
edit: actually, if the boys didnt want to do it, its not difficult. |
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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It's bad enough feigning the flaying of yourself in some archiac ritual, nevermind forcing kids to do it with the real deal, razors and all.
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| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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zenlunatic
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| exactly AidanJT |
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Devout Muslim found guilty of child cruelty |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | clix0r |
Should you be allowed to do it (or break other laws) just because it is part of the religion?
Personally I say no because it could end up anywhere |
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square_
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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i dont see how you can ban ecstatic experience through pain, pain someone inflicts on himself. maybe you should apply drug laws to it 
the only problem i see here that its forced on children. ban that. |
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Devout Muslim found guilty of child cruelty |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | runningwithscissors wrote: | | clix0r |
Should you be allowed to do it (or break other laws) just because it is part of the religion?
Personally I say no because it could end up anywhere |
As far as this particular behaviour goes, if you are an adult, sure you should be allowed to flagellate yourself to death if you want to. If you are a minor then surely not.
Wonder how much strain this religious buffoonery puts on the public hospitals in countries with significant Muslim populations.
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square_
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| this goes on in hinduism as well, if i remember correctly. |
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| square_ wrote: | | this goes on in hinduism as well, if i remember correctly. |
Maybe. Never heard of it though.
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Devout Muslim found guilty of child cruelty |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | runningwithscissors wrote: | | clix0r |
Should you be allowed to do it (or break other laws) just because it is part of the religion?
Personally I say no because it could end up anywhere |
As far as this particular behaviour goes, if you are an adult, sure you should be allowed to flagellate yourself to death if you want to. If you are a minor then surely not.
Wonder how much strain this religious buffoonery puts on the public hospitals in countries with significant Muslim populations. |
If you started cutting at your wrists with a razor blade, because it makes you feel alive, you'd probably be locked up in a rubber room. If you do it because of religious doctrine you're given a pat on the back. And that makes sense, how?.. At least the former has a more reasonable explaination for doing so.
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| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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sts
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| runningwithscissors wrote: | | square_ wrote: | | this goes on in hinduism as well, if i remember correctly. |
Maybe. Never heard of it though. |
So I go to wikipedia to look this up and find this ironic nugget:
| Quote: | | While self-harm is forbidden in Islam, many Shi'a Muslims perform self-flagellation to mourn the death of Hussain during Muharram. Most usually beat their chests with their hands, but the use of metal chains and spikes is common as well. The practice is common among Shiites in the Middle East and Asia, although is often frowned upon by other Shiites and other Muslims. |
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Drone1
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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I'm with AidanJT on this one....
Does that mean there's a fine line between insanity and religion?  |
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Drone1 wrote: | | Does that mean there's a fine line between insanity and religion? |
no, there is no line between being insane and believing insane things |
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erm67
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square_
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| Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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everybody who knows monty python, knows that christians used to flog themselves.  |
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energyman76b
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| Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: Re: Devout Muslim found guilty of child cruelty |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | runningwithscissors wrote: | | clix0r |
Should you be allowed to do it (or break other laws) just because it is part of the religion?
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no
just no. And if they can't adapt to local laws they shall go back to their backwater countries.
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| AidanJT wrote: |
Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.
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Satan's got perfectly toned abs and rocks a c-cup. |
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srunni
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| square_ wrote: | difficult situation.
edit: actually, if the boys didnt want to do it, its not difficult. |
Actually it's not difficult even if the boys did want to do it, because they are minors.
| energyman76b wrote: | | cokehabit wrote: | | runningwithscissors wrote: | | clix0r |
Should you be allowed to do it (or break other laws) just because it is part of the religion?
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no
just no. And if they can't adapt to local laws they shall go back to their backwater countries. |
++
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| Patrick Ewing wrote: | | if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it’s a duck, right? So if this duck is not giving you the noise that you want, you’ve got to just punch that duck until it returns what you expect. |
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square_
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
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| srunni wrote: | | square_ wrote: | difficult situation.
edit: actually, if the boys didnt want to do it, its not difficult. |
Actually it's not difficult even if the boys did want to do it, because they are minors. |
well it would be a conflict between culture/religion/customs vs. the law of the host country. |
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| square_ wrote: | | srunni wrote: | | square_ wrote: | difficult situation.
edit: actually, if the boys didnt want to do it, its not difficult. |
Actually it's not difficult even if the boys did want to do it, because they are minors. |
well it would be a conflict between culture/religion/customs vs. the law of the host country. |
Yup, and law takes presidence, so culture/religion/customs can take a back seat, and not mutilate their children.
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| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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square_
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| AidanJT wrote: | | square_ wrote: | | srunni wrote: | | square_ wrote: | difficult situation.
edit: actually, if the boys didnt want to do it, its not difficult. |
Actually it's not difficult even if the boys did want to do it, because they are minors. |
well it would be a conflict between culture/religion/customs vs. the law of the host country. |
Yup, and law takes presidence, so culture/religion/customs can take a back seat, and not mutilate their children. |
youre a true intellectual, its a real pleasure reading your considerate posts. |
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aidanjt
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| square_ wrote: | | AidanJT wrote: | | Yup, and law takes presidence, so culture/religion/customs can take a back seat, and not mutilate their children. |
youre a true intellectual, its a real pleasure reading your considerate posts. |
/me bows
Welcome.
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| juniper wrote: | | you experience political reality dilation when travelling at american political speeds. it's in einstein's formulas. it's not their fault. |
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srunni
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:37 am Post subject: |
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| AidanJT wrote: | | square_ wrote: | | srunni wrote: | | square_ wrote: | difficult situation.
edit: actually, if the boys didnt want to do it, its not difficult. |
Actually it's not difficult even if the boys did want to do it, because they are minors. |
well it would be a conflict between culture/religion/customs vs. the law of the host country. |
Yup, and law takes presidence, so culture/religion/customs can take a back seat, and not mutilate their children. |
++
Religion is not an excuse for child abuse.
_________________
| Patrick Ewing wrote: | | if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it’s a duck, right? So if this duck is not giving you the noise that you want, you’ve got to just punch that duck until it returns what you expect. |
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cokehabit
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: |
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| this is another clash between the west and Islam. You usually get it when the western priniples and ideals like freedom of speech and religion meet Islami ideals whih are very different |
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runningwithscissors
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| Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| cokehabit wrote: | | this is another clash between the west and Islam. You usually get it when the western priniples and ideals like freedom of speech and religion meet Islami ideals whih are very different |
Western "priniples" and ideals
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