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nenolod
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Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 199
Location: Tulsa, OK
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 Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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| userwaldo wrote: | I'm not into the change from xmms to audacious. xmms has way to many plugins to just drop it. Once these plugins have been ported they I might consider the change.
On top of that, I received no warning of this change. It seems like the gentoo developers have shifted from choise to pushing their own preferences on everyone. Seems like this goes against the whole spirit of Linux and the Open Source community. I'm sad to see the changes. 
Could someone at least point to the script that should be used to move the ebuilds to the local portage tree. It can be done manually, but there are so many plugins, the least the developers could do is to provide a simple script, if they are going to ax a classic Linux app. |
Audacious has all of the same plugins. They are provided by the audacious-plugins ebuild. We've refactored most of the plugins to be less buggy and more efficient. Additionally, audacious-plugins 1.2.x has new plugins that XMMS does not have (ALAC decoder, opensource wavpack decoder [planned], etc.)
- nenolod |
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nenolod
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Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 199
Location: Tulsa, OK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| darkmason wrote: | | Does anyone know what's going to happen to Madman? (Madman used XMMS to play files) |
It can be patched to use audacious easily enough. |
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tkhobbes
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Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 367
Location: Switzerland
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skelter
n00b
Joined: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:46 pm Post subject: some warning |
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| So, did we miss some sort of announcement or warning that XMMS was deprecated and scheduled for removal? |
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jannemann
n00b
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| darkmason wrote: | | Does anyone know what's going to happen to Madman? (Madman used XMMS to play files) |
On DocReedSolomon's link Flameeyees says:
| Quote: | | With XMMS, also all the plugins will go away, and all the software that depends on xmms. |
So I guess Madman will go with xmms ...
| nenolod wrote: | | Audacious has all of the same plugins. They are provided by the audacious-plugins ebuild. We've refactored most of the plugins to be less buggy and more efficient. Additionally, audacious-plugins 1.2.x has new plugins that XMMS does not have (ALAC decoder, opensource wavpack decoder [planned], etc.) |
I emerged audacious and audacious-plugins, but I couldn't find a plugin similar to xmms-alarm there. Did I miss that one? |
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nixnut
Administrator
Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 10914
Location: the dutch mountains
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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The hardmasking is the preparation for the removal. A hardmask can still be overridden by a user. But really, you should consider switching to one of the forks that are still actively maintained whereas xmms isn't.
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ahurst
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Sheffield, UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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How about making a static binary package instead? That way you don't have to keep glib 1.2 and gtk+ 1.2 in the tree.
Otherwise I honestly don't know what I'm going to do for a player.
Nothing is as quick with the same features.
I don't suppose Audacious team are planning to spend a lot of time on optimisation, either size, or speed-wise in the future.
I will probably end up running winamp under wine, which, I kid you not people, is still much more efficient than audacious.
I wonder what Mikael and Peter Alm would say.
Andy
[edit] I retract this ! Apologies Audacious crew, it's a lot faster than it used to be. 
Last edited by ahurst on Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jannemann
n00b
Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| ahurst wrote: | | Nothing is as quick with the same features. |
Where exactly did you notice audacious being not as quick as xmms? I only tested it for simply playing music (mp3/ogg), and there was no difference for me. I'm just curious ... |
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nixnut
Administrator
Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 10914
Location: the dutch mountains
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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merged some 'xmms masked' threads here.
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derverstand
Guru
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 511
Location: /dev/null
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Only one thing left to say: This is extremely unprofessional. xmms worked fine. Why should one fork a new player, if the old one works fine (at least for me in the last 6 years)? Makes no sense to me... And if the mainainers fucked up the xmms, what exactly will be different with *player-abc*??
Thanks to this decision my fvwm is inconsistent, (what about conky at all?), bluetooth-mobilephone-remotecontrol is out of order. This definitively sucks even more than the upgrade from xorg-6.9 and the update to the new gcc-4! |
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carpman
Advocate
Joined: 20 Jun 2002
Posts: 2200
Location: London - UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| tkhobbes wrote: | Try re-installing the applications with
| Code: | | emerge --newuse --oneshot application1 application2... |
This should take your newly set USE flags into account (and make sure that your world file is not changed). |
Hello, ok i have the same problem, tried the oneshot method but get:
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emerge --ask --newuse --oneshot mplayerplug-in
>>> --newuse implies --update... adding --update to options.
These are the packages that would be merged, in order:
Calculating dependencies... done!
Nothing to merge; would you like to auto-clean packages? [Yes/No]
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Did autoclean and then tried:
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emerge -av =media-video/mplayer-1.0_pre8
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Needed = for it to work.
The oneshot worked for other apps
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ahurst
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Sheffield, UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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jannemann,
This is an opinion only. I based it on installing and running both players and using top/gnome-system-monitor to monitor cpu usage.
While xmms used between 0.3 and 0.7% cpu, audacious used a consistent 4.0% playing the same 128kbps mp3s.
Apologies for making a sweeping generalisation which may be wrong.
Andy |
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FGA
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Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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ouch
I really love "JuK", but I use it for "serious" music play. For random files I don't have in my collection I use xmms, because it's really simple and because its really little footprint (loads in 1 second)
I also use it for the "disc writer" plugin, I don't now what will I use now.
Amarok is a great music player, will try to switch to it, but I still will have a little space in my heart for XMMS |
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Corona688
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Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1204
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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The hell? XMMS kicked out for bugs? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Why not kick out Xorg, KDE, the nvidia binary drivers too? They have bugs. Not only that, XMMS has over 5 years of accumulated plug-ins. Nothing else comes even close.
When did Gentoo get so ideological? My distro does not get to tell me which media player is in my best interests.
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prestige
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Corona688 wrote: | The hell? XMMS kicked out for bugs? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Why not kick out Xorg, KDE, the nvidia binary drivers too? They have bugs. Not only that, XMMS has over 5 years of accumulated plug-ins. Nothing else comes even close.
When did Gentoo get so ideological? My distro does not get to tell me which media player is in my best interests. |
Absolutely agreed. Please do not kill the Classic - XMMS.  |
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derverstand
Guru
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 511
Location: /dev/null
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| This is what I mean!! Gentoo really starts sucking! I already saw this tendency in the ideologically masked 6.9 (which is the only X with opengl WORKING). It is simply ridiculous to remove xmms, simply becaue some people are to stupid to maintain it. If gentoo continues this way I'll choose a different distro with more professional developers. This way of deciding things for the users is the reason, why I don't use microsoft... |
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RobB_NZ
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Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 8
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Corona688 wrote: | The hell? XMMS kicked out for bugs? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Why not kick out Xorg, KDE, the nvidia binary drivers too? They have bugs. Not only that, XMMS has over 5 years of accumulated plug-ins. Nothing else comes even close.
When did Gentoo get so ideological? My distro does not get to tell me which media player is in my best interests. |
No, and they're not telling you what to do.
Your distro does get to decide where to place its development efforts and priorities. They're saying that xmms is buggy and unmaintained upstream, and doesn't warrant being supported by Gentoo itself, so it is being removed from the core portage. As discussed in this thread, there are multiple ways of keeping it around if you want it. Suggesting other players that you may like to try is being helpful, not ordering you to change! |
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derverstand
Guru
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 511
Location: /dev/null
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Nope. You are wrong... What is the use of a distro, when I have to install xmms from scratch???? Ridiculous! I'm pretty close to switching over to suse again... At least they have working updates... |
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ahurst
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Sheffield, UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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jannemann,
well, on your behalf I tried testing audacious again..
what do you know, audacious and xmms are now just about even playing an mp3.
xmms very slightly in front (lower down the list in top).
On the other hand, audacious has 4x the memory footprint of xmms, and is far slower scanning through a large file list when adding to the playlist.
I'm still not convinced, thanks though!
I feel strongly about this - please don't remove XMMS from portage.
Andy |
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jannemann
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Joined: 11 Feb 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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ahurst:
I didn't want to convince you, I was just curious to know what makes an audio player faster. Personally I don't care if a player needs some more percent of my cpu power or might take a bit longer to load, the main thing for me is: does it do want I want it to do? And audacious doesn't seem to do that (yet), especially for the plugins. |
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derverstand
Guru
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Posts: 511
Location: /dev/null
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| It is not only about if it "works". Linux has been designed to not waste CPU seconds (like other OS). The code has to be as fast as possible of course! And xmms is fast. Amarok for example is fully overloaded! Why should one use windows-alike programs, if there exist very good alternatives? |
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ahurst
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 88
Location: Sheffield, UK
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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I'm quite in agreement:
XMMS is the benchmark by which all other media players are set .. STILL!
Until just last year, it topped every single LinuxJournal "best audio tool" poll.
What is left to develop upstream with a media player which just does exactly what it's designed to do, and does it well??
Bug fixes excepted: but I, as an ordinary user, have not experienced a single bug with it!
That it's no longer being developed is no good reason to kill it!
Its user base must be bigger than almost any other single linux application.
Andy |
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derverstand
Guru
Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 511
Location: /dev/null
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Right! Fully agree! There should be even more response to this topic! |
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Corona688
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Joined: 10 Jan 2004
Posts: 1204
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| RobB_NZ wrote: | | Your distro does get to decide where to place its development efforts and priorities. They're saying that xmms is buggy and unmaintained upstream, and doesn't warrant being supported by Gentoo itself, so it is being removed from the core portage. |
The connection between those two is not obvious. The developers don't have to like everything in portage. I doubt they even use everything in portage. There are lots of old things in portage that people don't have any problems with; they don't get version bumped, but they also don't get ripped out from underneath the people that use them. Take faad2. Abandoned for years. Still have it. Still works.
And add me to the list of one who's never experienced a single bug in the current XMMS. | Quote: | | As discussed in this thread, there are multiple ways of keeping it around if you want it. Suggesting other players that you may like to try is being helpful, not ordering you to change! |
Bull. What way do the devs have to mandate anything, other than portage? Removing it from portage is about as strong a message as they could ever send. The "choice" gentoo has given us is the same choice debian gives it's users -- the choice to shut up and go it alone.
All the XMMS-related ebuilds, tarred for posterity: http://burningsmell.org/xmms-portage.tar.gz
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MasquedAvenger
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Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 558
Location: Southern California
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:45 pm Post subject: XMMS slated for removal? |
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I just emerged sync and was shocked to find that all of a sudden portage runs into a brick wall on emerge -Dup world. Looking at all the XMMS packages it's failing on, I'm seeing that it's slated for removal from portage. I'm a bit shocked, seeing as how XMMS is one of the more popular players out there.
James
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Multimedia
