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amightywind
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject: Uncertainty around Reiser4 Reply with quote

I just read on slashdot [url]http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/11/0142216 [/url] that Hans Reiser was arrested for murder.
Shocked. As a Reiser4 user I am concerned. Anyone know what would be involved to switch my Gentoo system to another FS (I'm thinking xfs) short of a reinstall?
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Hagar
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Borrow or buy a second harddrive, clone the reiserfs partition, repartition the old drive and copy everything back.

Edit: If you have enough free space you could resize partitions and do the same.
Not sure if there are resize tools for reiserfs4 though.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And as has been posted in slightly different words on the Reiser mailing list....

You are more bothered about your filesystem, than about the lives of a Man his wife and his two children.....Nice.

Oh, and do you really think a DARPA funded project will be halted by loosing a single (Granted lead and visionary) Dev?

Please.....

Not to mention the fact that ReiserFS development stopped when Reiser4 develpoment started.....
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amightywind
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Hagar"]Borrow or buy a second harddrive, clone the reiserfs partition, repartition the old drive and copy everything back.

Thanks for the reply. How would you do the "clone"? dd, tar, rsync? What about the boot partition?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi, I just switched away from R4 after two years because it seemed to be getting flakey on my system with random io errors and the like. I used cp -a to copy the partitions to an external drive formatted with ext3 and back. I think if you use dd, it will simply make a copy your R4 partition precisely, so you couldn't use a different filesystem, you'd get another R4 partition.

If the boot partition is not R4, and any others that aren't, you can leave them how they are - just be careful with partition numbers when you are reformatting with the new filesystem.
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Hagar
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

psutokth wrote:
I think if you use dd, it will simply make a copy your R4 partition precisely, so you couldn't use a different filesystem, you'd get another R4 partition.

That's correct, I was assuming he would copy it back to the old drive.
So it wouldn't matter what type of FS he uses on the temporary drive.
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yngwin
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? :roll:

Anyway, I am looking forward to Reiser4 finally getting into vanilla, probably in 2.6.20.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Thanks for the reply. How would you do the "clone"? dd, tar, rsync? What about the boot partition?

I don't think anyone's mentioned yet - you should boot a liveCD to do this. /boot is done just like other partitions. I think tar is the preferred tool, but I've done this with rsync -a.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yngwin wrote:
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? :roll:

Anyway, I am looking forward to Reiser4 finally getting into vanilla, probably in 2.6.20.


QFT

and even if Hans Reiser is guilty of something - his programmers who did most of the job are not.

If you would have read the thread on their mailing list - they plan to go on. It does not matter how it ends, but they want to go on.

So why panic?

I am planning to change my /usr/portage partition to R4 as soon as it is in the vanilla kernel.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nevynxxx wrote:
You are more bothered about your filesystem, than about the lives of a Man his wife and his two children.....Nice.

I don't see an issue with amightywind asking the question. What would have made his post acceptable, an ode to someone he doesn't know first, or a few days of mourning period before asking questions?

I'm not trying to sound insensitive but I'm sure most people hope she hasn't been murdered, we don't really know any details, but still a valid question.

amightywind, I wouldn't worrying about doing anything yet.
Even if Hans was found guilty, I don't think suppport will instantly disappear and your current running system will be fine.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:15 pm    Post subject: Stages of grief Reply with quote

Quote:
You are more bothered about your filesystem, than about the lives of a Man his wife and his two children.....Nice.
[/quote]

No. I just got over the shock and denial phases of grief really fast. Now I am in acceptance. ReiserFS is one of those projects that features a North Korean, "great leader" style of governance, where a single alpha male rules supreme. Linux is the most prominant example of this style. ReiserFS, OpenBSD, Enlightenment, are others. There is a problem with millions of users relying on them. When they go wacky like Reiser where does that leave you? Other projects take a more democratic, and meritocratic approach (GCC, Gentoo, Gnome, KDE...). Over time they have proven to be the most reliable.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Stages of grief Reply with quote

amightywind wrote:
Quote:
You are more bothered about your filesystem, than about the lives of a Man his wife and his two children.....Nice.


No. I just got over the shock and denial phases of grief really fast. Now I am in acceptance. ReiserFS is one of those projects that features a North Korean, "great leader" style of governance, where a single alpha male rules supreme. Linux is the most prominant example of this style. ReiserFS, OpenBSD, Enlightenment, are others. There is a problem with millions of users relying on them. When they go wacky like Reiser where does that leave you? Other projects take a more democratic, and meritocratic approach (GCC, Gentoo, Gnome, KDE...). Over time they have proven to be the most reliable.[/quote]

which is wrong. reiserfs3 is in the kernel and maintained by a LOT of people - most of them never worked for Hans Reiser.

Additionally, a lot of other kernel-features were created by corporations - if you learn that the head of Redhat would be arrested because of murder, would you stop using ext3? What would you do, if Ulrich Drepper got arrested, stop using glibc?

Please stop confusing code and people.

About reiser4 - it was created by namesys - correct. And namesys does most of the work at the moment too. But even without Hans Reiser, it will go on.

Btw, you are talking crap about a person 'ReiserFS is one of those projects that features a North Korean, "great leader" style of governance, where a single alpha male rules supreme.', which is not even accused!

He got arrested - so what? UNTIL he is convicted, he is innocent. And at the moment there is not even a body. Maybe Nina Reiser spontanously ran away? That happens. Or she was kidnapped by a third person?

Do YOU know what happend? No?

But that he is guilty, that do you know?
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Bill Gates was found to be behind September the 11th, would that be the end of Windows?

No, of course not. Same with this. What might happen is that Namesys may fall apart, the filesystem may get renamed (ICEWeaselFS ?) and it might even enter the kernel.

However, if the 'filesystem formally known as Reiser4' is the only show in town when it comes to the future of fast Linux filesystems then it will go on because it is GPL software, anyone can pick it up. For example, Novell and Linspire have invested time, money and people to it.
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Headrush
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe we should all just move to ext4 :wink:

I hear it was recently added to 2.6.19 rc kernels by Andrew Morton.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Headrush wrote:
Maybe we should all just move to ext4 :wink:

I hear it was recently added to 2.6.19 rc kernels by Andrew Morton.


Well, how many people suffered or died in the making of my new laptop, in the clothes that I am wearing, in the food that I eat? What about all the old buildings in the UK that were built using money from the colonies, or buildings in the US that were built using money earned through slavery?

Shall we pull them all down, what about the Roman Forum, should we burn that down? What about all the paintings and art that the US has nicked from around the world?

I cannot answer all the above questions but there comes a point where we, for practical reasons, have to separate the material from the producers. Humans all have feet of clay, and you cannot live in the world without being covered in, at least a small layer, of scum, filth and blood.

No one has lived perfectly. We all need forgiveness, and we each find that through our own way and own beliefs.

Should reiser4 get included in the kernel? Yes if it makes it on technical grounds, however I think that if HR is found guilty then we should at least have a new name and a new project lead for it.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marcion, that's by far the best contribution to this thread!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
which is wrong. reiserfs3 is in the kernel and maintained by a LOT of people - most of them never worked for Hans Reiser.


My concerns are about Reiser4 not Reiser3. Hans Reiser's arrest throws that effort into disarray (with all due deference about the lives effected). I also, the reluctance of the kernel maintainers to include it in the vanilla sources. I'd like to avoid the controversy and just use xfs.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Stages of grief Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
which is wrong. reiserfs3 is in the kernel and maintained by a LOT of people - most of them never worked for Hans Reiser.


That's simply not the case. From one of the developers themselves:

Quote:
ReiserFS has a small and shrinking development community. Right now, the
only developers really working with ReiserFS are Chris Mason, Jan Kara
(internally), a rotating member of Hans Reiser’s team, and myself. All
of us have projects we’re very much more interested in than working with
ReiserFS. While Jan and I will be continuing to support ReiserFS for
SUSE, Hans is increasingly (hard to believe) pushing people to use
reiser4. Chris has moved on to Oracle and has expressed his opinions on
leaving ReiserFS behind.

ReiserFS v3 is a dead end.



See SUSE 10.2 Ditching ReiserFS as its’ default FS? for more details.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meanwhile ext4 gets added to the experimental kernel tree.

Back on topic tho', personally I can't see this doing any more than causing a possible name change.
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yngwin
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amightywind wrote:
My concerns are about Reiser4 not Reiser3. Hans Reiser's arrest throws that effort into disarray (with all due deference about the lives effected). I also, the reluctance of the kernel maintainers to include it in the vanilla sources. I'd like to avoid the controversy and just use xfs.

Last I heard it's still scheduled to go into vanilla 2.6.20.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:55 am    Post subject: Re: Stages of grief Reply with quote

energyman76b wrote:
which is wrong. reiserfs3 is in the kernel and maintained by a LOT of people - most of them never worked for Hans Reiser.


Wrong.
reiserfs3 was abandoned by Hans Reiser and is now maintained by a team at Suse.
The team leader at Suse announced in September that they are going to dump reiserfs3 too.
http://linux.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/suse-102-ditching-reiserfs-as-it-default-fs/
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:00 am    Post subject: Re: Stages of grief Reply with quote

rambam wrote:
energyman76b wrote:
which is wrong. reiserfs3 is in the kernel and maintained by a LOT of people - most of them never worked for Hans Reiser.


Wrong.
reiserfs3 was abandoned by Hans Reiser and is now maintained by a team at Suse.
The team leader at Suse announced in September that they are going to dump reiserfs3 too.
http://linux.wordpress.com/2006/09/27/suse-102-ditching-reiserfs-as-it-default-fs/


*Yawn* and *yawn*

reiserfs is in deep maintanance mode for YEARS. And it is known for YEARS. The 'performance problems' aren't ones for 'normal' users - people who don't need ACLs or douzends of CPUs.

And ext3 is in itself a dead and. The plans are to abandon ext3 as soon as ext4 is stable - and that can take some time.

So, and even that says NOTHING about reiser4, does it? No.

Btw, 2.6.19-rc1 had the last 'performance patch' for reiserfs3.6 so there is still some development - and I am sure that it won't fall apart in the next couple of month. reiser4 should be ready by then.
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Libertardian denial of reality is wholly unimpressive and unconvincing, and simply serves to demonstrate what a bunch of delusional fools they all are.

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