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lagalopex
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I now enabled the new in kernel check for hung tasks. It will print a warning for me quite often!

INFO: task *** blocked for more than 120 seconds.
"echo 0 > /proc/sys/kernel/hung_task_timeout_secs" disables this message.
Call Trace: ...

Its most often a small program to capture the webcam and save the picture to harddisk.
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AMD64 system slow/unresponsive during disk access...
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Lepaca Kliffoth
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kernelOfTruth wrote:
Lepaca Kliffoth, there are more factors involved in this problem:

for me it's actually the other way around:

- copying large files from one hdd to another
-> results in 100% halt of network-card :?
-> often also the mouse-pointer stops reacting and even the sound (if streaming on the net, of course - if playing locally it also stops)

in several situations if you raise the priority via renice of the affected apps sound and the mouse-pointer continue running/working

it pretty much looks like a bottleneck in the I/O subsystem combined with cpu-scheduler issues ...


I thought about it and you're right, there are more variables involved. While the situation did improve, I can't say with any certainty that the networking is at fault, it could be something that is triggered more often or more strongly by the madwifi drivers but the "faulty code" could still be somewhere else. But it doesn't matter: in the end we're all just soft, cute kittens left out in the cold rain by the heartless kernel devs, meowing for a fix.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

It's been 4 days since I upgraded from 2.6.28 to 2.6.30. Since then I've noticed "sporadic" I/O issues, from sudden "slowness/glitches" while watching a movie, writtes to mysql taking much longer than expected to unvelievable aparent hang on disk I/O, while executing "sync" (twice, took more than 15 minutes to finish a sync and while doing so I observed a misere ~<200KBps throughput to the disk).

I've had nothing similiar to this issue since I installed the system on January (2.6.28) and started just wen I went to 2.6.30. My system is not AMD, but Intel Core I7 920, 12GB RAM, and some 1.5TB SATA II Hard Drive's, so HW shouldn't be the problem.

I just comment here (even being an Intel cpu) because I just started my research and found this thread, hope it adds value.

Regards,
Luis

PD: I'll try with 2.6.29 and post back in few days if something changes.
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fangorn
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@luispa
You are correct here. AMD64 is the name of the architecture and not bound to a manufaturer.

I own many AMD powered boxes and a Core i7 920 powered box. If any different the Intel box is worse. Ok, might have something to do with the fact that it is built for the only purpose of handling multi-TB of video data per month. For that reason I/O is quite high with this machine. :wink: But as soon as a job starts heavy writing while I copy something the machine is hardly usable any more. :evil:
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luispa
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@fangorn
Thanks for the information, as I said here is the result with 2.6.29: no problem, back to normal behaviour. I'm not suffering problems with I/O now. Obviously I cant add any value here, but my experience. 2.6.28: Ok, 2.6.30: I/O issue, 2.6.29: Ok.

The system is not under heavy load as yours, but it has lots of services installed, as I use it as a Workstation (mainly photography and rarely transcoding video), and as a Server (mail, web, mysql, wiki, ...) but with not much load.

I can help though making tests. What commands should I use to start the test and which one to get the metrics?.

Thanks
Luis
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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2009 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what kernel config paramters should I check under 2.6.30 inorder to see if there is a difference?
should I select group scheduling?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

luispa wrote:
@fangorn
Thanks for the information, as I said here is the result with 2.6.29: no problem, back to normal behaviour. I'm not suffering problems with I/O now. Obviously I cant add any value here, but my experience. 2.6.28: Ok, 2.6.30: I/O issue, 2.6.29: Ok.

The system is not under heavy load as yours, but it has lots of services installed, as I use it as a Workstation (mainly photography and rarely transcoding video), and as a Server (mail, web, mysql, wiki, ...) but with not much load.

I can help though making tests. What commands should I use to start the test and which one to get the metrics?.

Thanks
Luis


If you have the time, the best thing you can probably do is download the kernel tree and run a git bisect. This will allow you to identify the commit that caused this regression and then you can open a bug about it. Here's an example of how to do it: http://kerneltrap.org/node/11753
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a question, is anyone with this problem using an ATI/AMD video card? I used to have this problem, and it has completely gone away after replacing my ATI with Nvidia.

I had an Athlon 64 3200 with an HD 3000 series that would grind to a halt whenever I did any kind of big file operation (eg transfering a movie across hard drives). The desktop would become nearly unresponsive. It would take sometimes up to half a minute to switch to the next song. Even typing in a console was slow. I didn't recall having that problem with that system earlier, and I attributed it to something changing in the kernel. I had been using an Nvidia FX 5700 earlier.

Recently I got a Phenom II X4 with an ATI HD 4870, and still had the same issue. A few weeks ago I replaced the ATI card with an Nvidia GTX 260 because ATI cards do not work very well with Linux (at least for me). Ever since then, I have not experienced the problem. Nothing else changed, just the video card and associated drivers.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bogo wrote:
Just a question, is anyone with this problem using an ATI/AMD video card? I used to have this problem, and it has completely gone away after replacing my ATI with Nvidia.

I had an Athlon 64 3200 with an HD 3000 series that would grind to a halt whenever I did any kind of big file operation (eg transfering a movie across hard drives). The desktop would become nearly unresponsive. It would take sometimes up to half a minute to switch to the next song. Even typing in a console was slow. I didn't recall having that problem with that system earlier, and I attributed it to something changing in the kernel. I had been using an Nvidia FX 5700 earlier.

Recently I got a Phenom II X4 with an ATI HD 4870, and still had the same issue. A few weeks ago I replaced the ATI card with an Nvidia GTX 260 because ATI cards do not work very well with Linux (at least for me). Ever since then, I have not experienced the problem. Nothing else changed, just the video card and associated drivers.


no - it's not ! :idea:

I've switched from 7600 GT to 4850 HD and it's the same before and afterwards :roll:
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

switching to zen-sources and using BFQ or FIFO scheduler with disabling NCQ (echo 1 > /sys/block/sda/device/queue_depth) help me to improve situation
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kernelOfTruth
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

f0rk wrote:
switching to zen-sources and using BFQ or FIFO scheduler with disabling NCQ (echo 1 > /sys/block/sda/device/queue_depth) help me to improve situation


++

in that case it's a bad / faulty ncq-implementation of your harddrives :idea: (seagate - I'm looking at you :wink: )
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Syshalt
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I've got a Seagate drive too - and I have the problem. So is there anyone with non-Seagate drives having exactly the same issues?
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DaggyStyle
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Syshalt wrote:
Interesting. I've got a Seagate drive too - and I have the problem. So is there anyone with non-Seagate drives having exactly the same issues?

this problem isn't seagate exclusive... I have the same issue on 2 diff computers with hd from wd
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't read most of this thread, but it may be connected with vino, see http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-780326-highlight-hogging.html. And if that is not the problem and you haven't already done so, showing the most active jobs from iotop might be useful.
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f0rk
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kernelOfTruth wrote:

++
in that case it's a bad / faulty ncq-implementation of your harddrives :idea: (seagate - I'm looking at you :wink: )


Yep, unfortunately you are right :(
Increase of compilation time is about 300%. Too slow.
And finally my solution was moving back to x86 arch (all right here with system over hard hdd loading), because, as we can see, profit of using amd64 on desktops is doubtful..
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW,
did somebody test http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12309#c397 ?
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Serchio
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can I disable ncq?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

echo 1 > /sys/block/[drive device]/device/queue_depth

Sets the queue to 1 to turn it back on echo 31 or whatever is the default in your dmesg.
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Serchio
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

loftwyr wrote:
echo 1 > /sys/block/[drive device]/device/queue_depth

Sets the queue to 1 to turn it back on echo 31 or whatever is the default in your dmesg.


It returns:
bash: /sys/block/sda/device/queue_depth: Access Denied
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darc
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serchio wrote:
loftwyr wrote:
echo 1 > /sys/block/[drive device]/device/queue_depth

Sets the queue to 1 to turn it back on echo 31 or whatever is the default in your dmesg.


It returns:
bash: /sys/block/sda/device/queue_depth: Access Denied


That means your hardware doesn't support NCQ, so you have it off.
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Serchio
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

darc wrote:
Serchio wrote:
loftwyr wrote:
echo 1 > /sys/block/[drive device]/device/queue_depth

Sets the queue to 1 to turn it back on echo 31 or whatever is the default in your dmesg.


It returns:
bash: /sys/block/sda/device/queue_depth: Access Denied


That means your hardware doesn't support NCQ, so you have it off.



edit: I have forgotten that AHCI in bios had been disabled. Now NCQ is enabled :)
edit2: I currently use this patch, and I can see a significant difference regarding to not using any patch at all.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys. Please post something that can be compared.

I think that Interbench (http://users.on.net/~ckolivas/interbench/) results should be fairly just.

Moreover its Con Kolivas tool, so we have some confidence about what it does. We aim for interactivity, aren't we?

These are my results.

Hardware - laptop Compaq nx7010 (Pentium-M 1.7GHz, 512Mb)

Common options for two measurements:

Code:

vm.swappiness=20
vm.vfs_cache_pressure=30
vm.dirty_background_bytes = 0
vm.dirty_background_ratio = 2
vm.dirty_bytes = 0
vm.dirty_expire_centisecs = 3000
vm.dirty_ratio = 10
vm.dirty_writeback_centisecs = 500
vm.highmem_is_dirtyable = 0

echo 1024 > /sys/block/sda/queue/nr_requests





Without patch http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12309#c397 plus "clocksource=acpi_pm"

Code:

Using 787575 loops per ms, running every load for 30 seconds

Benchmarking kernel 2.6.30-zen2-31386-g752ddf5 at datestamp 200908091549



--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of Audio in the presence of simulated ---

Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU  % Deadlines Met

None     0.008 +/- 0.00884    0.019       100           100

Video     0.023 +/- 0.37        9.05       100           100

X     0.008 +/- 0.00901    0.021       100           100

Burn     0.008 +/- 0.00917    0.021       100           100

Write     0.057 +/- 0.487       9.06       100           100

Read     0.027 +/- 0.0561     0.566       100           100

Compile     0.036 +/- 0.223       4.72       100           100

Memload     0.138 +/- 0.898       15.6       100           100



--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of Video in the presence of simulated ---

Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU  % Deadlines Met

None      7.25 +/- 13.8        46.5      95.9          68.4

X      14.7 +/- 21.3          80      70.7          37.5

Burn      44.9 +/- 47.8        82.5      27.9         0.396

Write      9.91 +/- 17.2        76.6      83.4          57.3

Read      7.58 +/- 12.8        48.5        98          61.8

Compile      46.7 +/- 51.7         115      25.9          3.18

Memload      12.9 +/- 24.1         333        75          46.3



--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of X in the presence of simulated ---

Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU  % Deadlines Met

None      68.8 +/- 97.4         231      15.6          6.58

Video       122 +/- 178          411      7.97          3.21

Burn       283 +/- 355          675      12.3          2.73

Write      81.8 +/- 117          348      13.6          5.46

Read      77.6 +/- 110          259      13.7          5.55

Compile       304 +/- 380          675      12.6          2.76

Memload      90.1 +/- 132          448      11.2          4.59



--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of Gaming in the presence of simulated ---

Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU

None       230 +/- 232          262      30.3

Video       389 +/- 393          445      20.4

X       378 +/- 383          437      20.9

Burn       875 +/- 892          931      10.3

Write       278 +/- 283          453      26.5

Read       262 +/- 264          291      27.6

Compile       980 +/- 1001        1066      9.26

Memload       316 +/- 323          520        24





With patch http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12309#c397 plus "clocksource=tsc"

Code:


Using 787575 loops per ms, running every load for 30 seconds

Benchmarking kernel 2.6.30-zen2-31386-g752ddf5-dirty at datestamp 200908091528



--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of Audio in the presence of simulated ---

Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU  % Deadlines Met

None     0.003 +/- 0.00369    0.006       100           100

Video     0.003 +/- 0.00379    0.006       100           100

X     0.003 +/- 0.00674    0.136       100           100

Burn     0.003 +/- 0.00417     0.04       100           100

Write     0.046 +/- 0.411       7.44       100           100

Read     0.017 +/- 0.033       0.38       100           100

Compile     0.042 +/- 0.317       4.48       100           100

Memload     0.053 +/- 0.652       12.9       100           100



--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of Video in the presence of simulated ---

Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU  % Deadlines Met

None     0.003 +/- 0.00388     0.04       100           100

X      4.12 +/- 10.3        49.7      93.9          91.1

Burn        21 +/- 28.4          77      59.8          34.2

Write     0.476 +/- 3.46        49.9      99.6          98.4

Read     0.013 +/- 0.0347     0.408       100           100

Compile      23.9 +/- 32.6        80.2      49.4          31.3

Memload      1.75 +/- 8.37         107      94.9          92.6



--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of X in the presence of simulated ---

Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU  % Deadlines Met

None      20.6 +/- 37.4         107      26.9          18.5

Video      58.8 +/- 86.1         210      17.3           8.4

Burn       202 +/- 258          508       5.2          1.29

Write      31.3 +/- 53.2         208      20.5          12.8

Read      26.1 +/- 44.7         120      22.9          14.8

Compile       214 +/- 274          528      8.36          2.12

Memload      48.3 +/- 78.9         306      16.4          8.28



--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of Gaming in the presence of simulated ---

Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU

None      98.5 +/- 99.1         119      50.4

Video       198 +/- 199          229      33.6

X       185 +/- 188          228      35.1

Burn       490 +/- 496          506      16.9

Write       125 +/- 127          224      44.5

Read       113 +/- 113          129        47

Compile       540 +/- 547          643      15.6

Memload       135 +/- 143          348      42.5



With patch http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12309#c397 plus "clocksource=acpi_pm"

Code:


Using 787575 loops per ms, running every load for 30 seconds
Benchmarking kernel 2.6.30-zen2-31386-g752ddf5-dirty at datestamp 200908091940

--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of Audio in the presence of simulated ---
Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU  % Deadlines Met
None     0.007 +/- 0.00785    0.041       100           100
Video     0.044 +/- 0.537       7.94       100           100
X     0.006 +/- 0.00724     0.03       100           100
Burn     0.007 +/- 0.00724    0.018       100           100
Write     0.026 +/- 0.299        7.3       100           100
Read      0.02 +/- 0.0352     0.319       100           100
Compile     0.036 +/- 0.294       6.05       100           100
Memload     0.037 +/- 0.275        5.7       100           100

--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of Video in the presence of simulated ---
Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU  % Deadlines Met
None     0.006 +/- 0.00739    0.042       100           100
X      7.23 +/- 13.6        49.5        96          70.3
Burn      27.7 +/- 32.6        73.8      42.5          10.8
Write       1.5 +/- 6.12        48.9      99.1          94.2
Read     0.383 +/- 2.36        25.8       100          98.2
Compile      28.6 +/- 37.2         105      40.7          21.3
Memload      2.28 +/- 16.2         583      95.3          89.1

--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of X in the presence of simulated ---
Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU  % Deadlines Met
None      35.2 +/- 55.9         145        19          10.8
Video      70.7 +/- 103          256      14.7          6.66
Burn       225 +/- 286          549      9.72          2.46
Write      49.4 +/- 73.6         225      15.2          7.56
Read      46.1 +/- 68.2         160      15.8          7.67
Compile       239 +/- 303          555      10.7          2.73
Memload      55.3 +/- 80.3         220      18.1          8.46

--- Benchmarking simulated cpu of Gaming in the presence of simulated ---
Load   Latency +/- SD (ms)  Max Latency   % Desired CPU
None       134 +/- 134          148      42.8
Video       246 +/- 248          281      28.9
X       234 +/- 237          278        30
Burn       587 +/- 598          651      14.6
Write       158 +/- 161          269      38.7
Read       150 +/- 151          168        40
Compile       652 +/- 662          783      13.3
Memload       183 +/- 198          759      35.4



As you see some improvements are really here, but it's hard to call them considerable.

P.S. "clocksource=jiffies" just hangs the system. My HDD does not support NCQ.
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those having this problem, especially if they have SATA drives, it would probably be worth a shot to try the deadline scheduler instead of cfq.

Everything I've read over the last year or so seems to indicate there is still an I/O problem with cfq on some systems, and also that generally with SATA drives deadline is often a better scheduler that cfq. Kernel >=2.6.30-rc4 seemed to improve it somewhat (as mentioned), but I'm still sticking with deadline myself until I'm convinced this is really fixed with cfq.

You need to enable support in your kernel (probably already has it, but check your .config file). If not, you'll need to recompile your kernel and enable deadline, but if it does already have it, just append your grub kernel line with
Code:
 elevator=deadline

and reboot.
If it makes a difference great, but if not, just remove the append.
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Serchio
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@wrc1944 Do you have deadline as default IO scheduler in kernel?
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wrc1944
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Serchio,
Yes, I use currently use deadline, but also enable cfq whenever i compile a new kernel, so I can test it if I happen to hear there were any promising fixes/patches. Never hurts to have the option supported to append the grub kernel line for a different scheduler.
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Amd FX 8320, 3.5 GHz, 16GB GSkill DDR3 1866mhz
Samsung SATA 1000GB, Radeon HD 6570 2GB DDR3
Gentoo ~x86, ~amd64, glibc-2.19-r1, gcc-4.9.1 kernel 3.17.1-gentoo-r1 (USE=experimental "native")
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