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| dispatch-conf or etc-update or...? |
| dispatch-conf |
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45% |
[ 182 ] |
| etc-update |
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49% |
[ 198 ] |
| cfg-update |
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3% |
[ 15 ] |
| other / don't care (please explain) |
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1% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 399 |
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jonnevers
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Joined: 02 Jan 2003
Posts: 1584
Location: Gentoo64 land
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 Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| circus-killer wrote: | | mark_alec wrote: | | etc-update. It is all there was when I started using Gentoo, and to be honest, I have never tried dispatch-conf. |
ditto 
dont see whats the problem with etc-update. its quick, its easy, and it gets the job done. |
well, the last time i used etc-update. it numerically lists the conf files that need updating then you need to type the number of the conf file you want to update/zap then update/zap it then type in the next number... etc until you are done.
dispatch-conf automatically pulls up the next conf file to process. How can having to stop, type a number, and then process the conf file, be in any way better?
so you say quick... I say dog slow compared to other utilities readily available.
It certainly is a matter of personal choice but I am seriously surprised so many users still use etc-update. and people doing it manually with diff? why? you're manually duplicating functionality already done in both etc-update and even more efficiently in dispatch-conf (I'm not familiar with cfg-update, sry). crazy talk. |
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locovaca
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Joined: 22 Jul 2002
Posts: 29
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnevers wrote: |
dispatch-conf automatically pulls up the next conf file to process. How can having to stop, type a number, and then process the conf file, be in any way better?
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Easy. Base Layout is updated. I have 10 files in /etc/init.d that need to be updated and 5 others elsewhere from other packages that I never touched, and 4 other misc. updates that I need to examine. I go through the 4 or so files that I need to merge manually, then do a -5 and it's all done. I don't need to touch all 19 files, just the 4 I know I've updated. etc-update does that perfectly well for me. |
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blubbi
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Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 544
Location: Halle (Saale), Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| locovaca wrote: | | jonnevers wrote: |
dispatch-conf automatically pulls up the next conf file to process. How can having to stop, type a number, and then process the conf file, be in any way better?
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Easy. Base Layout is updated. I have 10 files in /etc/init.d that need to be updated and 5 others elsewhere from other packages that I never touched, and 4 other misc. updates that I need to examine. I go through the 4 or so files that I need to merge manually, then do a -5 and it's all done. I don't need to touch all 19 files, just the 4 I know I've updated. etc-update does that perfectly well for me. |
Full Ack
My vote goes to etc-update... starting with gentoo-rc4 i got used to this tool I tried dispatch-conf ant cfg-update.
dispatch-conf and cfg-update ar both to complicated (or maybe I am to lazy to lern something new) for updating cfgs.
What I miss in all tools is a bit "Ai".
I, for making things easier, put any additional lines which I add to the configfile at the end and try to leave the rest as is where it is possible. So if anything canges in the file it is quite easy to merge the file.
Isn't there a way that a script could figure out what settings are default upstream settings and user settings. So if a new version of the cfg file comes to the system, it checks wich of the default settings have been changed by the userm merges thes settings and writes down the new merged file. Than manuall interactions would only be neccessary if the synthax has changed. Comments in the cfgs can IMHO always be overwritten by the new ones.
Maybe a database driven update tool, enterprise ready 
I am just courious about how SuSE deals with config updates (I have no clue how YaST or anything works in SuSE, but the Sysadm in the university told me that there is a tool in SuSE with which you can just run the update and you have not to worry about anything. I can't believ this. Is this true?)
best regards
blubbi |
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Icer
Guru
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Posts: 388
Location: @home
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | dispatch-conf and cfg-update ar both to complicated |
I've felt just the opposite. etc-update is complicated while dispatch-conf is easy and fast. I have yet to try cfg-update.
| Quote: | | What I miss in all tools is a bit "Ai". |
Well at least dispatch-conf automatically replaces config files which have only header file changes. With header changes I mean comments etc. IIRC etc-update has it too, right?
| Quote: | | Maybe a database driven update tool, enterprise ready |
Amen, and add a GUI too, lol. 
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xentric
Guru
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 410
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| blubbi wrote: | | Isn't there a way that a script could figure out what settings are default upstream settings and user settings. So if a new version of the cfg file comes to the system, it checks wich of the default settings have been changed by the userm merges thes settings and writes down the new merged file. Than manuall interactions would only be neccessary if the synthax has changed. |
Well, that's exactly what cfg-update tries to do for you...
You guys want AI and GUI huh!? Here we go...
Example: We have /etc/foo and we get an update /etc/._cfg0000_foo for it...
A simple "cfg-update -u" will get you started. First the cfg-update script get's the MD5 checksum of /etc/foo and matches it with the checksum that Portage stored when it installed the file.
Situation A: If the checksum hasn't changed, you haven't made any changes to /etc/foo and it's safe to replace /etc/foo (containing only default settings) with the new version /etc/._cfg0000_foo.
Actions (automatic):
cfg-update renames /etc/foo to /etc/._old-cfg_foo to keep as backup
cfg-update copies /etc/._cfg0000_foo to /etc/._new-cfg_foo to keep as backup
cfg-update renames /etc/._cfg0000_foo to /etc/foo to update the configuration file
Actions (manual):
none, unless you disable automatic replacing of unmodified files with --manual-only (cfg-update -mu)
Situation B: If you have changed /etc/foo, the cfg-update script will see this when matching the checksums. The cfg-update script will open xxdiff (or meld,kdiff3,gtkdiff,kompare,sdiff,...) This tool shows you all the differences between /etc/foo and /etc/._cfg0000_foo and it let's you simply click on the lines you want to include in the merged result. The merged result is saved as /etc/foo.merged by the diff/merge tool when you are done.
Actions (automatic):
cfg-update starts xxdiff for you
xxdiff saves the merged result on exit as /etc/foo.merged
cfg-update renames /etc/foo to /etc/._old-cfg_foo to keep as backup
cfg-update renames /etc/._cfg0000_foo to /etc/._new-cfg_foo to keep as backup
cfg-update renames /etc/foo.merged to /etc/foo to update the configuration file
Actions (manual):
you only have to select which lines (settings) you want by simply clicking on them in xxdiff
Now pay attention, the backups are important because they can be used for 3-way merging!
Situation C: If you have changed /etc/foo, the cfg-update script will see this when matching the checksums. But it also sees that you have already updated this file before because it also finds /etc/._old-cfg_foo and /etc/._new-cfg_foo. In this case it will try to do an automatic 3-way merge...
3-way diff merging was created for this situation:
Monday morning, two programmers, John and Jim both want to add functionality to a program called foo-1.0. They both open the foo-1.0.sourcecode file in their editors and start changing the code... At the end of the afternoon they both have a different sourcecode file, each with their own changes in it. So John saves his result as john.sourcecode and Jim saves it as jim.sourcecode.
They use the following command to merge the results:
| Code: | | diff3 -m john.sourcecode foo-1.0.sourcecode jim.sourcecode > foo-2.0.sourcecode |
This will succeed as long as they didn't change the same lines!
So the format is: diff3 --merge versionA original versionB > merged-result
Now let's translate this to the configuration file update in Situation C.
You have edited the original /etc/foo file (versionA)
The devs have included an edited version of /etc/foo, which Portage just saved as /etc/._cfg0000_foo (versionB)
Luckily we also have a backup of the original file, the previous ._cfg0000_foo file!!! /etc/._new-cfg_foo (original)
So we can let diff3 do an automatic merge of your changes in /etc/foo and the changes by the devs in /etc/._cfg0000_foo and save the merged result as /etc/foo.merged
Actions (automatic):
cfg-update runs diff3 command
diff3 creates /etc/foo.merged which contains changes from both files
cfg-update renames /etc/foo to /etc/._old-cfg_foo to keep as backup
cfg-update renames /etc/._cfg0000_foo to /etc/._new-cfg_foo to keep as backup
cfg-update renames /etc/foo.merged to /etc/foo to update the configuration file
Actions (manual):
none, unless you disable the automatic 3-way merging with --manual-only (cfg-update -mu)
Situation D: Remember I said "This will succeed as long as they didn't change the same lines!" in the 3-way merge example? Well, in this case you have changed the file, and you have updated it before. But the automatic 3-way merge failed because of an merge-conflict... this happends when you and the devs both decided to change the same line differently. In this case cfg-update will open the three files in xxdiff 3-way mode. This means that you only have to solve the merge conflict manually by clicking on the lines you want in the merged result. You must choose between yours and the devs line(s).
Actions (manual):
cfg-update runs diff3 command
diff3 creates /etc/foo.merged which contains one or more merge-conflicts
cfg-update starts xxdiff for you
xxdiff creates /etc/foo.merged on exit which contains selected lines from both files
cfg-update renames /etc/foo to /etc/._old-cfg_foo to keep as backup
cfg-update renames /etc/._cfg0000_foo to /etc/._new-cfg_foo to keep as backup
cfg-update renames /etc/foo.merged to /etc/foo to update the configuration file
Actions (manual):
you only have to solve the merge-conflict in xxdiff by simply clicking on the lines you want to keep
Situation E..Z: Ofcourse there are lot's of other difficult issues too. The file that needs to be updated can be a symlink, a binary file or an executable file/binary, etc... It can even happen that you need to update files that haven't even been installed with Portage in the first place (custom files). All these issues are dealt with by cfg-update. If it can't decide what to do it will ask you!
So 90% of all updates are dealt with automatically by cfg-update, and the 10% that needs your help (uhmmm... simply clicking in a GUI tool) will shrink because cfg-update can use the backups for automatic 3-way merging on future updates!
This makes updating configuration files a piece of cake... don't you think?
Note for first-time-users: the auto-update function will not work during the first update session! cfg-update forces you to manually update your files with the GUI tool (easy clicking) until all ._cfg0000_ files are gone. After that cfg-update automatically creates a checksum-index and from then on it can use the checksums to check if files have been modified and to determine if it's safe to auto-update files... and please read the cfg-update installation instructions!
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Last edited by xentric on Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Aonoa
Guru
Joined: 23 May 2002
Posts: 538
Location: Oslo, Norway
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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I've always used etc-update and didn't even know about dispatch-conf until this thread, but now I'm a little inspired into trying cfg-update instead. You can always learn something new.
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legine
Guru
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 555
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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etc-update here because I started with it. But I will change to cfg-update as soon as I get it onto my machine. Sounds realy realy cool.
I have always trouble with forgeting which files I have edited. (dispatch-conf doesnt sound as good )
why is cfg-update still unstable?
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geniux
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Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 1400
Location: /home
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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I've been using cfg-update for a week or two now after reading about it here, I really like it so far no errors at all but I haven't had any giant updates yet with multible configs to go through. It takes some time to get used to it when coming from etc-update, but it's been worth it
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legine
Guru
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 555
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Ahh great.
I have an enormeous update in front of me. I wasnt able to update for 2 month.
I am looking forward to get this automated with time...
I post my experience on my effords
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xentric
Guru
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 410
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| legine wrote: | | why is cfg-update still unstable? |
For a package to become stable it needs to be accepted by a maintainer who takes full responsibility for the package. I can tell you that cfg-update-1.8.0-r3 is very stable, but the status will remain unstable as long as there's no maintainer willing to adopt the package.
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legine
Guru
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 555
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Ahh,
Well I was irritaded because it did not find any bugs but was marked as unstable.
Didn't know it needs someone to adopt it
Okey can I donload the script it somewhere manually?
My Gentoo box is without an internet connection atm. 
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Dark Helmet:[...] we were told to comb the desert, so we're combing it! [puts down bullhorn] Find anything yet?!
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xentric
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Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 410
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| legine wrote: | Okey can I donload the script it somewhere manually?
My Gentoo box is without an internet connection atm. |
The ebuild takes care of some neccesary steps, you can't just throw the script in there and expect it to work...
It's a pain in the ass to do this manually due to the dependencies and integration with Portage.
If your last "emerge --sync" was somewhere after februari, and you have "perl" and "sux" installed on your system. then you have a small chance that this will work:
You can download the tarball with another computer and put it in /usr/portage/distfiles. After that just follow the installation instructions.
(use -kde -gone as USE-flags to avoid installation of xxdiff and meld)
If xxdiff and meld are not installed, cfg-update only uses the basic commandline merge tool sdiff (like etc-update).
I'll start writing a manual installation guide tonight.
My advice: do yourself a favor and hook it up to the internet... a simple emerge will save you lot's of trouble!
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legine
Guru
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 555
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:06 am Post subject: |
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Well Gentoo is said to be owned by crazy people, but I am not that crazy to do it by hand if I can use the best maintenance system I have used so far.
The Sources are totaly enough. The word manually was not ment for installation only for the fetching part
But nice try. Havent I got enough work I would have taken your offer an do it completely manual. 
But you are realy lucky and save the work 
Thanks a lot!
Now I only need to fetch meld or xxdiff...
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NeddySeagoon
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Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Posts: 27780
Location: 56N 3W
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:06 am Post subject: |
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legine,
You need to do the following steps. On your Gentoo | Code: | | emerge cfg-update -fp |
this will provide you with a list of URLs you need to download elsewhere.
When you have those files, copy them to /usr/portage/distfiles then run the emerge for real.
Portage will now find all the files it needs.
You can use the same process for any package and a similar process update your portage tree and hence you whole install.
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legine
Guru
Joined: 27 May 2004
Posts: 555
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: |
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realy?
never recognized that it shows the urls.
thanks I check it out
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Dark Helmet:[...] we were told to comb the desert, so we're combing it! [puts down bullhorn] Find anything yet?!
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blubbi
Guru
Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Posts: 544
Location: Halle (Saale), Germany
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| xentric wrote: | | blubbi wrote: | | Isn't there a way that a script could figure out what settings are default upstream settings and user settings. So if a new version of the cfg file comes to the system, it checks wich of the default settings have been changed by the userm merges thes settings and writes down the new merged file. Than manuall interactions would only be neccessary if the synthax has changed. |
Well, that's exactly what cfg-update tries to do for you...
You guys want AI and GUI huh!? Here we go...
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Hey, thx for the nice introduction to cfg-update.
Maybe i was to used to the etc-update diff style, and got a bit confues of the output of cfg-update.... don't know, but I'll give cfg-update one more try.
By the way, GUI is not a good idea maybe for a workstation, but if you are used to administrate servers, why use a GUI tool on the workstation
I tryed it once or twice with kdiff3 but couldn't get used to it.
Thx a lot for the explanation.
regards
blubbi |
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xentric
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Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 410
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| blubbi wrote: | | By the way, GUI is not a good idea maybe for a workstation, but if you are used to administrate servers, why use a GUI tool on the workstation |
Right now cfg-update falls back onto sdiff interactive merging (press [l]eft or [r]ight to select which lines to keep) when a GUI is not available... so it also works on systems that do not have a GUI.
To install it on servers without a GUI just do this: | Code: | echo "apps-portage/cfg-update -kde -gnome" >> /etc/portage/package.use
emerge -av cfg-update
cfg-update --on |
You can also use the script like this: "cfg-update -au"
This will only do the automatic updates and leaves the rest for manual merging in whatever tool/editor you prefer. That command can even be used in a cronjob!
But if you (or someone else) have experience with other commandline alternatives like vimdiff or other tools for merging the configuration updates, please let me know so I can make cfg-update support these tools.
| Quote: | | Thx a lot for the explanation. |
You're welcome
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ppurka
Advocate
Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 2782
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| xentric wrote: | | But if you (or someone else) have experience with other commandline alternatives like vimdiff or other tools for merging the configuration updates, please let me know so I can make cfg-update support these tools. |
It will be great if (g)vimdiff were supported, especially since it can handle 3-4 files. I tried using gvimdiff with cfg-update. |
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xentric
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Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 410
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ppurka wrote: | | xentric wrote: | | But if you (or someone else) have experience with other commandline alternatives like vimdiff or other tools for merging the configuration updates, please let me know so I can make cfg-update support these tools. |
It will be great if (g)vimdiff were supported, especially since it can handle 3-4 files. I tried using gvimdiff with cfg-update. |
This is what I found in the Gentoo Wiki under dispatch-conf:
| Quote: | Use (g)vimdiff to merge changes
Merging files isn't particularly friendly in the default configuration. If you add merge="vimdiff -c 'saveas %s' -c next -c 'setlocal nomodifiable readonly' -c prev %s %s" to /etc/dispatch-conf.conf, then you can use vimdiff or gvimdiff to merge changes.
Note: The left pane will hold the original config file saved as the merge output, so make changes in the left pane and save that pane. To help you remember the right hand pane (containing the new config file) will be marked unmodifiable and read-only.
Use ":wqa" to write and exit. |
Looks to me like it's not possible to have a merge-pane like xxdiff or kdiff3.
I'll try to make vimdiff/gvimdiff work in cfg-update...
The command string should look something like this:
gvimdiff -c next -c 'setlocal nomodifyable readonly' -c prev /etc/foo /etc/._cfg0000_foo --nofork
and then I should edit the left pane and save the left pane over the original (as /etc/foo).
Cfg-update can handle this without a problem, and will correctly complete the update.
Emerging vim and gvim now
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Last edited by xentric on Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Guenther Brunthaler
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Location: Vienna
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 6:04 am Post subject: I have used dispatch-conf ever since, but cfg-update also |
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seems very interesting at the first glance.
But unfortulately cfg-update is still flagged as unstable for x86, and I wonder whether there may be some good reason for this?
One of the things I like the most of dispatch-conf is its capability to create RCS archives of all the changes it has ever done to any config file (if enabled in the dispatch-conf configuration file). So it is always possible to revert to some historical version of a config file it this turns out to be desirable at some point in the future.
To put it shortly: All changes are version-controlled; no information is lost at all!
On the other side, a GUI merge tool as incorporated by cfg-update seems even more comfortable to me.
Does anyone know whether cfg-update also has the capability to put the changes it does under version control automatically? |
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xentric
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Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 410
Location: Netherlands
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: Re: I have used dispatch-conf ever since, but cfg-update... |
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| Guenther Brunthaler wrote: | | But unfortulately cfg-update is still flagged as unstable for x86, and I wonder whether there may be some good reason for this? |
I've answered this question a couple of posts above this one
| Quote: | | One of the things I like the most of dispatch-conf is its capability to create RCS archives of all the changes it has ever done to any config file (if enabled in the dispatch-conf configuration file). So it is always possible to revert to some historical version of a config file it this turns out to be desirable at some point in the future. |
Let me ask you this: How many times have you actually reverted to older (than the previous version) settings?
I'm using cfg-update since I wrote it in March 2003 and I have never had the need to go beyond the previous settings. Keeping a backup of the previous version of the configfile has always been good enough for me personally.
| Quote: | | To put it shortly: All changes are version-controlled; no information is lost at all! |
To me this sounds like overkill... It makes the whole updating thing unnecessary complicated.
| Quote: | | Does anyone know whether cfg-update also has the capability to put the changes it does under version control automatically? |
If enough people start yelling that they want cfg-update to use version control (RCS or subversion?) just like dispatch-conf, maybe I'll implement it in the next version...
I will investigate the possibilities and how much this affects the current functionality!
But someone needs to convince me that implementing version control isn't overkill
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Kosa
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 03 May 2005
Posts: 106
Location: Prague
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:33 am Post subject: |
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I screwed my first installations with etc-update. It was mostly because i was totally newbie, but then i switched to dispatch-conf and it never happened again. It's more intuitive for me to merge confs with it.
But by the way i think it's cool to have more choices - everyone can pick his favourite and then fight for it in forum |
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dev-urandom
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Location: Huh?
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: |
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I use etc-update all the time, and IIRC there are settings for colordiff there too
| lefou wrote: | dispatch-conf 
Using dispatch-conf with colordiff and rcs... and you can't compare this to etc-update anymore. |
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mirojira
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I started with etc-update, now I use dispatch-conf, but after I read this thread I will try cfg-update |
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ribx
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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there is a TIP in gentoo wiki. you doesnt want to use etc-update or dispatch-conf without it.
btw: i switched from etc-update to dispatch-conf 3 month ago. my vote goes for dispatch-conf
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