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aidy
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how old are you
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Ateo
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An eye for an eye. They should get ass raped then killed to silence them...
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kusuriya
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

22, my grammar is horrid, my spelling is worse... I cant help it... and that is why I will never be a novelist or an english teacher ;)
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aidy
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and your maths and stuff?

you look like someone that's easely manipulated
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kusuriya
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

high level math, generally computer savvy, generally smart... and I say a lot of the shit I do to bring another side to the whole argument.. trust me I only say what I actually belive when the argument doesnt seem to be going lopsided.. But in the same tone because of my positon im privy to some info, alot of people are not, and I also have to watch what I say because it can get me in trouble... For I am an American Soldier and I have a few freinds there, and I can also be tried for treason and punished more harshly than the average american... rember it is still in the UCMJ that my daily ration is to consist of bread and water, and only one serving of each while in confinement... (its a left over from a time long long ago that never got removed, and only used under extreme cases.. again dog and pony...).. but generally my veiw is they deserve an impartial trial.. chances are they already gave up all the evidence to hang them selves and they do need to be punished in accordance with the law... which in this case if i read the news articles right they did kill some one soo that is a death sentance right there... but other than that their job does suck... they just had no right to do what they did
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
This is a millitary matter. This has nothing to do with you. It belongs in the millitary courts.

I'm sure the victims and their families will be soooo comforted by that.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aidy wrote:
oh my god
americans are so fucked up
it's so crazy they don't realize they live in a sort of nazi regime
Probably because we don't.
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The Ennead
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kusuriya wrote:
..


Aye, i can appreciate your points but as Nixnut points out, the soldiers may well be on trial but there are other considerations such as the victims and their families. Think of it like a football match England v USA, they wouldn't have an American or British ref, simple as that. There are US and Iraqi interests involved and a US court looks after only US interests.

Consider me as a screaming left wing tree hugger (shouldn't be too hard :P ) with a completely biased view. These guys are tried by Americans and they get away with it then the first thing i'm going to say is that it was fixed and another example of Americans getting away literally with murder. Try them in an Iraqi civilian court and hypothetically give them the death penalty, the first screaming right-wing nutter with a completely biased view is going to be screaming for another invasion. It's a war crime that has been committed, justice has to be seen to be done as well as be done. For all other major wars, and even quite a few of the minor, an independent tribunal is set up to deal with it.

Granted I have no faith in those either (one obvious reason being the bribery and extortion by the US of many countries to get the impunity in the first place **) but .... :P


** sorry i'll provide the link for that but atm the site is down so i'll quote from the google cache as well

http://web.amnesty.org/pages/icc-US_threats-eng

Quote:
The USA is currently approaching governments around the world and asking them to enter into illegal impunity agreements. These agreements provide that a government will not surrender or transfer US nationals accused of genocide, crimes against humanity or war crimes to the ICC, if requested by the Court. The agreements do not require the USA or the other state concerned to investigate and, if there is sufficient evidence, to prosecute such a person in US Courts. Indeed in many cases it would be impossible for US courts to do so, as US law does not include many of the crimes under the Rome Statute.

On 1 July 2003 the USA announced the withdrawal of military assistance to 35 states who are parties to the Rome Statute and have refused to sign an impunity agreement with the USA. On 8 December 2004, the USA went even further, withdrawing economic support from states that still refuse to sign impunity agreements. The withdrawal of this economic funding threatens to undermine counter-terrorism efforts, peace process programs, anti-drug trafficking initiatives, truth and reconciliation commissions and HIV/Aids education, and threatens states such as Jordan, Ireland, Cyprus, Peru, Ecuador, Venezuela and South Africa.


Such things are the reason I put little faith in US justice.

Edit: Additional

I just came across this article which is related to the same thing ... http://www.b92.net//eng/news/globe-article.php?yyyy=2006&mm=06&dd=29&nav_category=117&nav_id=35429

Quote:
In a report on interviews it had with judges, investigators, lawyers and officials in eight European countries, Human Rights Watch said governments in Britain, Denmark, Norway and the Netherlands have created special war crimes units to conduct investigations across the globe.

The agency also noted those opposed to the concept, such as the Bush administration, say it can be misused against US officials and service personnel. But it said universal jurisdiction is an effective road to justice for victims who have nowhere else to go.
The last paragraph is funny, but expected, and roughly translates as "We agree that everyone except Americans should be brought to justice and be subject to International law".

Last edited by The Ennead on Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aidy wrote:
ah I see thank you for your fantastic and superb insightfulness

I didn't know americans were the only ones with rights, next time I'll meet one, I'll act accordingly to my positition, that of a slave with no rights

but by the way, why can't those 'terrorists' in Guantanamo Bay be tried in their own country
'because they are terrorists blablabla terrorists have no rights' I hear you say
well.
don't you think that what those soldiers did is a form of terrorism? why can THEY be tried in their home country?

oh yes, I forgot, americans are the only ones with rights, and no one would of course think about giving those lower-than-monkeys arabs and iraqi's rights

A textbook example of a liberal's inability to form a logical argument. Tell me, which part of my post did you disagree with? -- that American citizens have rights? that the allegations should be investigated? And what about this idea that I wrote "only Americans have rights?" Why is reading comprehension so low on this forum?
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Last edited by dmitchell on Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
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aidy
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with america being rational
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dmitchell
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of these soldiers has been charged with rape and four counts of murder, and is facing death; the four others soldiers have been confined on their base.
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aidy
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yay! let's commit even more murder
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The Ennead
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmitchell wrote:
One of these soldiers has been charged with rape and four counts of murder, and is facing death; the four others soldiers have been confined on their base.


I'm with you in that there needs to be innocence until proven guilty in this, so i'm certainly making no calls on it, but i'd be interested in knowing more details of this paragraph in the report you've linked to, once the hearings are over.

Quote:
The case is being handled by federal prosecutors there because Green, who served 11 months with the 101st Airborne, based at Fort Campbell, Ky., is no longer in the military. According to an affidavit filed with the criminal complaint, he was discharged "before this incident came to light. Green was discharged due to a personality disorder."

It's ambiguous at best and worse but I hope they investigate that side of things as well as i'd love to know their reasoning behind the discharge.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am in the military and this is a military matter. The soldiers are bound under the UCMJ, if they commited this crime they will be punished according to the UCMJ. There isn't a need for a long-winded discussion about what should happen to them because I am pretty sure the military can handle the matter itself.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's my understanding that the soldier in question was discharged from the military, making him a civilian. In this case I think the legally correct thing to do would be to try him in the country he commited his crime in, right?

Any kind of special treatment would send the wrong image to Iraqis and might lead to increased tension and violence.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moloch wrote:
Aidy wrote:
oh my god
americans are so fucked up
it's so crazy they don't realize they live in a sort of nazi regime
Probably because we don't.

[flame bait]
:lol: Best thing I've read today! Hahahaha "we don't" hahaha classic! :lol:

It certainly seems to have allot of parallels from this angle.
[/flame bait]
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

playfool wrote:

Any kind of special treatment would send the wrong image to Iraqis and might lead to increased tension and violence.


Somehow, i dont think the military gives a shit.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drizek wrote:
playfool wrote:

Any kind of special treatment would send the wrong image to Iraqis and might lead to increased tension and violence.


Somehow, i dont think the military gives a shit.


Somehow I tend to agree, if he gets off with a light sentence the Iraqies will be pissed - if he gets convicted by the Iraqis even in a fair trial the Americans will get pissy.. yay for win-win situations.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nixnut wrote:
sugar wrote:
This is a millitary matter. This has nothing to do with you. It belongs in the millitary courts.

I'm sure the victims and their families will be soooo comforted by that.


What do the families have to do with this?
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
nixnut wrote:
sugar wrote:
This is a millitary matter. This has nothing to do with you. It belongs in the millitary courts.

I'm sure the victims and their families will be soooo comforted by that.


What do the families have to do with this?


If I kill you, I'm quite sure your family will want a pound of flesh from me... I assume that Iraqi families are the same way.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sugar wrote:
nixnut wrote:
sugar wrote:
This is a millitary matter. This has nothing to do with you. It belongs in the millitary courts.

I'm sure the victims and their families will be soooo comforted by that.


What do the families have to do with this?


whoops, I was just watching bbc world and apprently he killed the family to cover it up.

I apologise for my uninformed comment.
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LD
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I swear innocent till proven guilty means nothing to anyone these days. Can we please wait for the hang man until a conviction is handed down and they are PROVEN guilty?

DO we have any information ASIDE from what the media has put out on this? No, we don't. The rights of the accused must stand for something, or the rights of us all mean nothing.

Technically, since this is a crime in a foreign government which we do not have to my knowladge a SOFA (see last post) agreement with then under rules of law those folk would be handed over to the civilian courts. However, we do protect our folks in those areas for the most part by being sure a fair trial would be performed.

Hell, you can't even get a fair trail in the western world it seems. Being accused is enough for folk like you lot to demand a public castration. It is not enough to be accused. There have been many times when the accuser at least in the civilian world made the whole thing up and the accused life was in taters. The false accusation is almost never prosecuted, and the accused has to live with that, even though they did nothing wrong.

I don't know if they are guilty, but I expect more of you lot then summary judgement when you have nothing except one wire story to work on.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you haven't read most of the discussion, it is being debated WHERE the trial to determine if they are guilty is to be held.

Few have declared that they are guilty.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

runningwithscissors wrote:
If you haven't read most of the discussion, it is being debated WHERE the trial to determine if they are guilty is to be held.

Few have declared that they are guilty.


Honestly, they are under both the jurisdiction of the USMJ and US law.

Here's something for you non-military folk. An Example of what determines this. I'mgoing to qualify this though by saying I don't know how it works in a war zone enviroment like Iraq.

In South Korea we have a Status of Forces Agreement, or SOFA. This is basically a piece of paper saying what things Military folk can be under the jurisdiction of the Local Korean Authorities, and what is Military jurisdiction. In the United Arab Emmerates we do NOT have a SOFA with the local government. If you get pulled over for drunk driving or such your ass is the Emeraties. And they lash you for DUI.

Now, that is for situations where it's not a war zone. I don't know how it would work in Iraq where we are technically in a warzone and such.

And runningwithscissors, every post has assumed guilt, not innocence. Hell, every post I've seen has said anything that isn't a guilty verdict with anexecution is just the US protecting it's own. Thats as close to assuming guilt as you can get.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jamiethehutt wrote:
Moloch wrote:
Aidy wrote:
oh my god
americans are so fucked up
it's so crazy they don't realize they live in a sort of nazi regime
Probably because we don't.

[flame bait]
:lol: Best thing I've read today! Hahahaha "we don't" hahaha classic! :lol:

It certainly seems to have allot of parallels from this angle.
[/flame bait]
Sure we have a lot of fucked up people here but quit sending your retards to us! Seriously, America is fucking huge, you can dig through the news and find something fucked up going on somewhere in the US. I find it comical that people pay attention to what America does so closely only to act like it's a shock when something goes wrong. Well shit, you watch anything long enough and only count the mistakes sure it's gonna look bad. Nobody keeps a tally of how everything happens normally.
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