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aidy
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what does that have to do with communism or socialism?


really you guys have no clue what those are, esp socialism
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abaelinor
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

all of the media is bullshit.

daily show had a little clip from fox news where stewart put it best "if you had your eyes closed during that report, you heard something about a serial killer, but if you had your eyes open, it was a story on tna". fox basically talked about some serial killer who was only going after prostitutes in daytona beach FL while showing a bunch of college girls getting rowdy while scantily clad. that's bullshit reporting.

and back this with bill o'reilly who purposely invites liberals onto his show just so he can turn their mic off and yell at them.

while i see a LOT wrong with the almost exclusively liberal media, i also see a lot wrong with only big conservative network.

the news no longer reports news at all. they just highlight sensationalist topics bc thats what stupid fucking viewers apparently like.

if i want news, i turn to google news, digg, and arstechnica. while i'm fully aware that there is some bias in those, it's mostly natural bias. right now nintendo ds and x360 own digg for articles. when ps3 comes out, it'll be up there again. the cross section of the topics from these sources has much less political bias and grossly less sensationalism than any major news network. the only time i'm ever bugged is when arstechnica posts yet another article about net neutrality that essentially says "nothing has happened, here's a recap of all our links"
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

:? I'm beginning to think this person is serious... :?

Labels, labels, labels and straw men. Take a complex issue, stuff it in a jar, put a simple label on it, put it on the shelf, and shoot at it. "Problem solved?"

These are "sweeping generalizations." "All the media is <<label>>." It's certainly no better than the reasoning you might encounter on mainstream channels like, say, talk radio. It's not an invitation to a debate; it's a challenge to a duel. And, why bother? :rolleyes: You're entitled to think as you please. Please, enjoy.
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abaelinor
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sundialsvc4 wrote:
These are "sweeping generalizations." "All the media is <<label>>."


all of the major tv networks (there's like 12 or 13) except for fox (the lone conservative, who one of bush's relatives has a high-up position in) are liberal. that is a fact.

however, fox seems to need to make up for being the only conservative in the crowd so it does lots of stupid ass shit that makes it look even more retarded and even less reputable.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Media Bias and the Universal Leftist Agenda Reply with quote

neocon101 wrote:
Leftists (libs, commies, socialists, democrats...) have a strangle-hold on our media. This is a fact.


One quick point, and then I'll leave (right/left arguments don't appeal to me).

Where exactly is this stranglehold? There are so many different forms of media, which means that everyone has their very own outlet, if they want it. Democrats can listen to Public Radio or read the New York Times or watch CNN. Conservatives can listen to Talk Radio or read the Wall Street Journal or watch Fox News.

Both sides are screaming media bias, but to that, I say bullocks. Just like the arms race, whenever one side gets worried about a gap, they never hesitate to fill it.
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The Ennead
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djlosch wrote:
sundialsvc4 wrote:
These are "sweeping generalizations." "All the media is <<label>>."


all of the major tv networks (there's like 12 or 13) except for fox (the lone conservative, who one of bush's relatives has a high-up position in) are liberal. that is a fact.

however, fox seems to need to make up for being the only conservative in the crowd so it does lots of stupid ass shit that makes it look even more retarded and even less reputable.


I haven't a clue about all the different media outlets in the US (and tbh they all seem pretty useless to me or at least the ones I get to see) but to add to your list and muddy the waters a bit, apparently Fox or rather its owner Murdoch actually once called himself a liberal :lol:

As i say, i'm keeping out of this one because I don't really know enough about US media to speak authoritatively but there's an interesting article on the BBC atm which may be relevant about his stance http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5127284.stm and which I think is relative to all media. Basically media is biased to its own interests and changes political affiliation according to whichever side works in its own interest. It is neither left nor right. I always considered it to be a bit of a universal "gimme" that media is business, business supports business, the media will make or break whoever does or doesn't work in its interests and my assumption has always been that the US follows the same principle. As I say though, that's something I assume rather than I know as what little contact i've had with US media i've found it to be worse than our own in the UK which is pretty poor at best.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh yeah, i am a leftist and love to put any liberal in jail. :twisted:

and i own a newspapers. called; you can't be free.

[/troll]
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Mnemia
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's laughable to say that the US major media has a "liberal bias". The media supports whoever is in power, for the most part, because they profit from not upsetting the status quo. They haven't been nearly as agressive in going after the Bush Administration as they should have been, for example.

I get the feeling that some people would consider media "liberal" no matter what if it isn't a 24/7 propaganda outlet for Republicans (like Fox).
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Albert_Alligator
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess people see what they want to see.

Some see bias in one direction, while others see it in the other direction.... this would be good for a psychology paper.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Media Bias and the Universal Leftist Agenda Reply with quote

neocon101 wrote:


Back during World War II, victories over the Nazis and Japanese were displayed proudly in newspapers. Today there is no such awknowledgement of the progress being made in the Iraq War. All we see are the death tolls of our troops, the death tolls of civilians, reports of massacres carried out by battered troops. What has changed since then? I'll tell you what: a radical movement to the left in those who control out media. If the media was controlled by the companies who have a vested interest in a positive public opinion of the war, then we would be seeing the the absolute truth of how things really are going on over there.



While it is true just reporting and focusing only on the mistakes, things going wrong, body counts, or the misdeeds of a couple of troops, does not provide a balanced picture to the American public. I fail to see how if the media is left bias and overly negative towards the war in Iraq, how letting companies with a vested interest provide the news in order to promote a “positive public opinion” provides more balance and truth then we already don't have from out major national news providers?

I agree when there are victories, positive events and happenings going on in Iraq we need to hear them. Reporters need to be reporting on the troops conducting themselves with honor, not just the ones screwing up or cracking and losing it. However, only focusing on just the rosy positive happenings lies to the American public just as much as focusing only on the bad and negative.

If you want truth in your news reports the whole picture needs to be seen, the good and the bad with minimal possible bias.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Back during World War II, victories over the Nazis and Japanese were displayed proudly in newspapers.


Yes, but back in the second world war, people actually believed the Nazis and Japanese ate babies as icecream and all kinds of crazy shit like that. Now, we see those that are not actually fighting as people instead of these crazy superhuman beasts.
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orangeman12
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTF the nazis didn't eat babies?
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abaelinor
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

orangeman12 wrote:
WTF the nazis didn't eat babies?

how to eat babies
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jetblack
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer my baby with a dash of Universal Leftist Agenda. It lends a subtle, yet all-pervasive flavor to the dish.
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abaelinor
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the media outlets should be encouraged to bash the government as much as possible. when the media agrees with the government, we all lose. there should be a media immunity for disseminating classified information.

the way i see it, the bush admin's security is like security in win95. they grossly over-rely on keeping secrets. i hope some pissed off terrorist cracks a bunch of military comps holding top secret info and posts it all on tpb with links on digg. then US media can play it on primetime, and fox can say it doesnt exist.

if a system depends on tight lips so that it doesnt come crashing down, that's a piss poor system, bc lips are inherently loose.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't think there is a media bias, imagine this New York Times headline in June 1942:

Quote:
Japanese codes broken
Washington- It has been confirmed by an unnamed source in the War Department that through clandestine eavesdropping the Japannese Diplomatic and Navy Codes have been accessed by Intelligence assets of the U.S. government.
The Roosevelt administration never asked for nor received Court permission nor did they consult with Congress.
This source could not confirm rumors of British Intelligence in possesion of a Nazi code machine.

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Mnemia
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

menelmacar wrote:
If you don't think there is a media bias, imagine this New York Times headline in June 1942:

Quote:
Japanese codes broken
Washington- It has been confirmed by an unnamed source in the War Department that through clandestine eavesdropping the Japannese Diplomatic and Navy Codes have been accessed by Intelligence assets of the U.S. government.
The Roosevelt administration never asked for nor received Court permission nor did they consult with Congress.
This source could not confirm rumors of British Intelligence in possesion of a Nazi code machine.


Poor comparison.
1. That is an action against an enemy nation during a Constitutionally declared war. We are not currently at war as defined by the Constitution since Congress has not issued an official declaration of war.
2. That action did not potentially violate the privacy of thousands or millions of innocent people, like the Bush Administration's various surveillance programs do.
3. Congress had already given President Roosevelt permission to do this, through the declaration of war. In constrast, the FISA law passed by Congress (as well as the Constitution) specifically prohibits President Bush's actions.
4. Actual harm would come from that information being leaked during WWII. No actual harm is done by the current reporting, since the terrorists already know that they are being surveilled on a broad scale.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mnemia wrote:
menelmacar wrote:
If you don't think there is a media bias, imagine this New York Times headline in June 1942:

Quote:
Japanese codes broken
Washington- It has been confirmed by an unnamed source in the War Department that through clandestine eavesdropping the Japannese Diplomatic and Navy Codes have been accessed by Intelligence assets of the U.S. government.
The Roosevelt administration never asked for nor received Court permission nor did they consult with Congress.
This source could not confirm rumors of British Intelligence in possesion of a Nazi code machine.


Poor comparison.
1. That is an action against an enemy nation during a Constitutionally declared war. We are not currently at war as defined by the Constitution since Congress has not issued an official declaration of war.
2. That action did not potentially violate the privacy of thousands or millions of innocent people, like the Bush Administration's various surveillance programs do.
3. Congress had already given President Roosevelt permission to do this, through the declaration of war. In constrast, the FISA law passed by Congress (as well as the Constitution) specifically prohibits President Bush's actions.
4. Actual harm would come from that information being leaked during WWII. No actual harm is done by the current reporting, since the terrorists already know that they are being surveilled on a broad scale.

You're right, I'm sure there are better examples, but :)
1. You're right Congress did not declare war, but in our current situation it was not a nation that declared war on us. So who does Congress declare war on?
2. I would be willing to wager there was all sorts of domestic spying going on in 1942 without the notification to the courts.
3. There is no such consensus. In all probability the courts will have to decide.
4. You are probably correct, but then again we don't know.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

menelmacar wrote:
3. There is no such consensus. In all probability the courts will have to decide.

they wont be allowed to decide if they honor those stupid executive secrecy orders issued by team orwell
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TNorthover wrote:
neocon101 wrote:
You have seen only the very beginnings of my abilities. My sword is still sheathed.


And you haven't put on your robe and wizard's hat yet?


And sheathed it shall be, forever more, as neocon101 - aka jedsen - has been banned. Bye bye.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

curtis119 wrote:
TNorthover wrote:
neocon101 wrote:
You have seen only the very beginnings of my abilities. My sword is still sheathed.


And you haven't put on your robe and wizard's hat yet?


And sheathed it shall be, forever more, as neocon101 - aka jedsen - has been banned. Bye bye.


Woah, no way..... I never would have guessed that.....or maybe I would..... talk about multiple personalities.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Albert_Alligator wrote:
curtis119 wrote:
TNorthover wrote:
neocon101 wrote:
You have seen only the very beginnings of my abilities. My sword is still sheathed.


And you haven't put on your robe and wizard's hat yet?


And sheathed it shall be, forever more, as neocon101 - aka jedsen - has been banned. Bye bye.


Woah, no way..... I never would have guessed that.....or maybe I would..... talk about multiple personalities.
Yeah, that one I didn't expect. May I ask how the mods knew that it was (also) jedsen?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valkura wrote:
May I ask how the mods knew that it was (also) jedsen?

Prolly by IP. I'm more interested in why he was banned?
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Last edited by papal_authority on Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valkura wrote:
Albert_Alligator wrote:
curtis119 wrote:
TNorthover wrote:
neocon101 wrote:
You have seen only the very beginnings of my abilities. My sword is still sheathed.


And you haven't put on your robe and wizard's hat yet?


And sheathed it shall be, forever more, as neocon101 - aka jedsen - has been banned. Bye bye.


Woah, no way..... I never would have guessed that.....or maybe I would..... talk about multiple personalities.
Yeah, that one I didn't expect. May I ask how the mods knew that it was (also) jedsen?


My guess is by his IP.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

papal_authority wrote:
Valkura wrote:
May I ask how the mods knew that it was (also) jedsen?

Prolly by IP. I'm more interested in why he was banned?
Ah, ic. Prolly because iirc having two accounts is not kosher here.

(Btw, anyone know how often one's IP changes? I am curious now.) (edit - assuming you don't have static)
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