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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 141
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 Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: Synchronizing updates |
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with you devs? According to this thread, every time there's an update on a piece of the toolchain, I rebuild the toolchain twice, system once and world twice.
Last Friday, there was an update on gcc so I've recompiled and recompiled (542 packages in world) and just finished this morning (Monday). Then, I sync and... WTF???? There's an update on glibc????
Can't you talk to each other to synchronize updates on the pieces of the toolchain? I can live with rebuilding once a month, but rebuilding all the time (especially during summer when it's hot) is very annoying.
mod edit (subject): What's wrong...  Synchronizing updates --Earthwings |
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amne
Bodhisattva
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
Posts: 6378
Location: Graz / EU
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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Moved from Portage & Programming to Gentoo Chat as this is rather a discussion than a support request.
If you find a piece of official Gentoo documentation telling you to do that, please correct me, but afaik there's no need to do this anyway. The only time you really should recompile some stuff is after major gcc upgrades (e.g. 3.3 -> 3.4). It may be nice to do so in case of some other upgrades, but running emerge -e world every few days is just an overkill. 
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clintpatty
Apprentice
Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| What did you need in all those upgrades? What features did the new GCC have that you needed? |
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Monkeh
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Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Every time there's a MAJOR update. Like. 3.3 to 3.4, not 3.4.5 to 3.4.6, or 3.4.6 to 3.4.6-r1, etc.
And nobody forced you to update any part of your toolchain. |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkeh wrote: | | ...And nobody forced you to update any part of your toolchain. |
Well sure, I can fill files in /etc/portage to block any update on any package, but usually, when I do emerge -upv world and it shows an update on a package (including gcc or glibc), I'm inclined to think I should update the package in question.
And curiously, Just after the last gcc update, I couldn't open an xfce session until I reemerged the whole world. |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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| clintpatty wrote: | | What did you need in all those upgrades? What features did the new GCC have that you needed? |
None that I know of. Are you saying that I should block updates on the toolchain packages? |
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yngwin
Retired Dev
Joined: 19 Dec 2002
Posts: 4572
Location: Suzhou, China
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Whats wrong...
...with you? 
I understand you feel the need to rebuild your toolchain and world when you update such an important piece of software. But I really do not get why, if you feel it's such a hassle, you feel the need to do that the moment it appears in portage. If your system isn't broken, or you don't immediately need new features, you'd better wait, see if any other important updates appear, and then upgrade all at once - as often or rarely as you like.
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| yngwin wrote: | Whats wrong...
...with you?
I understand you feel the need to rebuild your toolchain and world when you update such an important piece of software. But I really do not get why, if you feel it's such a hassle, you feel the need to do that the moment it appears in portage. If your system isn't broken, or you don't immediately need new features, you'd better wait, see if any other important updates appear, and then upgrade all at once - as often or rarely as you like. |
Well, maybe what's wrong with me is the fact that among all the Linux distros (all the majors but Suse) I've tried I think of them as pieces of crap and I can only bear with Gentoo.
I don't "feel the need to rebuild..." but I trusted what I read here on these forums to be accurate (as far as I know, nobody on the dev team denied or put a warning on what I read again here). |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
Posts: 141
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| STRANGERJ wrote: | | Can't you solve your own problems!!!??? |
Of course I can solve my own problems. But what was MY problem mentionned in this thread again? Or, does reading hurt your head? |
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Earthwings
Bodhisattva
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 7753
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: What's wrong... |
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| napoleonb wrote: | | Can't you talk to each other to synchronize updates on the pieces of the toolchain? |
Synchronizing updates would mean waiting some time before releasing an update for one of them. This might make you happy, but other people would run in circles screaming because some package wasn't updated immediately.
| napoleonb wrote: | | I can live with rebuilding once a month, but rebuilding all the time (especially during summer when it's hot) is very annoying. |
Then don't update (== only do security updates) at all, what's the problem?
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Earthwings
Bodhisattva
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Posts: 7753
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| STRANGERJ wrote: | Nothing's wrong, you're wrong.
You're the most selfish person.....wasting post space and all that.
Can't you solve your own problems!!!??? |
Everyone please keep the tone nice and friendly, thanks. STRANGERJ, personal attacks will get you banned from the forum, please read the guidelines
Edit: Banned him due to his other posts, please ignore him. Cleaned up the mess.
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amne
Bodhisattva
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
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Location: Graz / EU
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Also his post to this thread got deleted by the mighty sledgehammer that allows us to mass-delete posts as he polluted a bunch of threads.
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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I am just unhappy about the fact that there was only a three days period (including weekend) between the gcc and the glibc update. Probably, nobody would even have noticed anything if the gcc update came on Monday along with the glibc update instead of Friday.
Can't the gcc maintainer(s) and the glibc maintainer(s) discuss planned updates before committing anything to stable? Wasn't the glibc update known on Friday? |
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Monkeh
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Location: England
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| napoleonb wrote: | | Monkeh wrote: | | ...And nobody forced you to update any part of your toolchain. |
Well sure, I can fill files in /etc/portage to block any update on any package, but usually, when I do emerge -upv world and it shows an update on a package (including gcc or glibc), I'm inclined to think I should update the package in question.
And curiously, Just after the last gcc update, I couldn't open an xfce session until I reemerged the whole world. |
Or, you could not emerge -uDN world (or whatever you use), and just update the packages you actually need to update. Doing otherwise results in breakage, headaches, and silly posts like this. |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
Joined: 14 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkeh wrote: | | Or, you could not emerge -uDN world (or whatever you use), and just update the packages you actually need to update. Doing otherwise results in breakage, headaches, and silly posts like this. |
Ok then, when do you decide it's time to update? Do you subscribe to newsletters? Do you check every other day on Gentoo's website to see if an update is important or not? And, if you do that, what's the purpose of Portage then?
Portage is what makes Gentoo. If one can't trust Portage, isn't it time to give up? |
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Earthwings
Bodhisattva
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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I'd see it a bit more relaxed. Do security updates from time to time (say, once a week, unless it's some mission critical system where you wouldn't want to run Gentoo anyway) and update everything only when you feel like doing so - every two or three months is fine. In between you can always update other applications if you're interested in some new version of them.
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amne
Bodhisattva
Joined: 17 Nov 2002
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Location: Graz / EU
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| napoleonb wrote: | | Can't the gcc maintainer(s) and the glibc maintainer(s) discuss planned updates before committing anything to stable? Wasn't the glibc update known on Friday? |
Why?
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Monkeh
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| napoleonb wrote: | | Monkeh wrote: | | Or, you could not emerge -uDN world (or whatever you use), and just update the packages you actually need to update. Doing otherwise results in breakage, headaches, and silly posts like this. |
Ok then, when do you decide it's time to update? Do you subscribe to newsletters? Do you check every other day on Gentoo's website to see if an update is important or not? And, if you do that, what's the purpose of Portage then?
Portage is what makes Gentoo. If one can't trust Portage, isn't it time to give up? |
.. Portage is to manage software. It's not there to make choices on what to upgrade and what not to.
I decide what to upgrade by looking to see if it has new features, bug fixes, security fixes, or anything else of use to me. If it doesn't, it doesn't get upgraded until a major update or until I have free time to just let it work and fix any issues it causes. |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| amne wrote: | | napoleonb wrote: | | Can't the gcc maintainer(s) and the glibc maintainer(s) discuss planned updates before committing anything to stable? Wasn't the glibc update known on Friday? |
Why? |
Why? Coherence? Anyway. I give up. I used to be a fighter but I'm not anymore. You're right. Packages upon which everything else depends on a system that is compiled with and from those packages shouldn't be kept in a coherent state. That's simply a waste of time and energy. |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkeh wrote: | .. Portage is to manage software. It's not there to make choices on what to upgrade and what not to.
I decide what to upgrade by looking to see if it has new features, bug fixes, security fixes, or anything else of use to me. If it doesn't, it doesn't get upgraded until a major update or until I have free time to just let it work and fix any issues it causes. |
What does "manage", "managing", "management" mean? It seems to me that you're saying something in one sentence and the opposite in the next.
By what you're saying there, Portage "manages" software and yet you're the one making all the management. |
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Monkeh
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| napoleonb wrote: | | Monkeh wrote: | .. Portage is to manage software. It's not there to make choices on what to upgrade and what not to.
I decide what to upgrade by looking to see if it has new features, bug fixes, security fixes, or anything else of use to me. If it doesn't, it doesn't get upgraded until a major update or until I have free time to just let it work and fix any issues it causes. |
What does "manage", "managing", "management" mean? It seems to me that you're saying something in one sentence and the opposite in the next.
By what you're saying there, Portage "manages" software and yet you're the one making all the management. |
It manages the compilation, installation, etc, of software. You decide what software and what version is actually installed. |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkeh wrote: | | It manages the compilation, installation, etc, of software. You decide what software and what version is actually installed. |
Ok, then. Why are new versions of packages are slotted in "stable"? As a decoration? |
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Monkeh
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| napoleonb wrote: | | Monkeh wrote: | | It manages the compilation, installation, etc, of software. You decide what software and what version is actually installed. |
Ok, then. Why are new versions of packages are slotted in "stable"? As a decoration? |
They're put there as they're considered stable and safe to update to.  |
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napoleonb
Tux's lil' helper
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| Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkeh wrote: | | napoleonb wrote: | | Monkeh wrote: | | It manages the compilation, installation, etc, of software. You decide what software and what version is actually installed. |
Ok, then. Why are new versions of packages are slotted in "stable"? As a decoration? |
They're put there as they're considered stable and safe to update to. |
And you still don't update them? |
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Monkeh
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| napoleonb wrote: | | Monkeh wrote: | | napoleonb wrote: | | Monkeh wrote: | | It manages the compilation, installation, etc, of software. You decide what software and what version is actually installed. |
Ok, then. Why are new versions of packages are slotted in "stable"? As a decoration? |
They're put there as they're considered stable and safe to update to. |
And you still don't update them? |
... IF you need to or think you should. Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you ASOLUTELY HAVE TO. |
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