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Why its impossible to install Gentoo reomote on a rootserver
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Gentoo Server
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:27 am    Post subject: Why its impossible to install Gentoo reomote on a rootserver Reply with quote

I can boot a recovery system so i can likewise easy manual install gentoo but on reboot I see no gentoo.
Why Gentoo cant even make a simple installer which does get you Gentoo on a remote server installes.

The actual Gentoo system is very crap
you are wasting hours and hours to get gentoo running
thus I keep now the already Debian installed because Gennto has the worst possible installer system out there.

:evil:
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erikm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for that highly constructive and useful critique. :roll:

If you don't like Gentoo, just don't use it.
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Gentoo Server
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The question is why Gentoo completly fails at install.
Gentoo has some nice and candy features but the install is simple crap.
You need to pray after install reboot that you see a Gentoo login !
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erikm
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo Server wrote:
The question is why Gentoo completly fails at install.

The answer is: Gentoo does not install itself; you fail at installing it.
Gentoo Server wrote:
Gentoo has some nice and candy features but the install is simple crap.

Gentoo is a tremendously powerful and flexible GNU/Linux metadistribution, and is in many aspects simpler to maintain than most others. The installation is admittedly more involved than for instance with Suse 10.0, but it is also very verbosely documented in the handbook and a number of threads on this forum. Read, and post back when you have a well defined problem that is not covered in any documentation or the bugzilla.
Gentoo Server wrote:
You need to pray after install reboot that you see a Gentoo login !

BS.
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ToeiRei
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For your info: I have installed about 80 rootservers at different providers. And they're working.
Just 14 hours of compile time, each one - but no great problems except the ones caused by myself (i.e. forgot to set the root pw once)

Rei
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Ast0r
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Why its impossible to install Gentoo reomote on a rootse Reply with quote

Gentoo Server wrote:
you are wasting hours and hours to get gentoo running
I can get Gentoo up and running in about 1 hour with stage3 install. Getting Apache installed takes about another 30 minutes. Past that, you have just as much configuring as you would with Debian. After that, you can just set the portage niceness to 15 or 20 and let it recompile if you want a highly optimized system. This can be done overnight, so you're not really "wasting time" doing it.

Just because you aren't adept enough to get a working system up in a reasonable amount of time doesn't mean that Gentoo is crap.
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slycordinator
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Why its impossible to install Gentoo reomote on a rootse Reply with quote

Ast0r wrote:
Past that, you have just as much configuring as you would with Debian. After that, you can just set the portage niceness to 15 or 20 and let it recompile if you want a highly optimized system. This can be done overnight, so you're not really "wasting time" doing it.


Not completely. With Debian, you only have to do configuring ONCE. Like with gentoo, if I update a program, there's a good chance that the configuration file for it changed as well. Then I have to change it to match the new version.

With Debian, though, this is unlikely to happen because with they work at having the updated code gets backported into the stable version and done in a way that allows it to work with the old config file.

Though the optimization is big for me; and having closer control over ebuilds (rather than having to use someone's repository for newer stuff). So I go for gentoo.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For as long as I've installed gentoo (at least 20 times on my home computer and on other systems) I have never had a real serious problem installing. Everytime I was able to find an answer here or fix my own user errors. IMO Gentoo is the best operating system out there for full control of your system and full optimization. If you have a problem, please do not rant, but ask questions. :)
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slycordinator
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm wondering if this is a joke.

It seems odd to me that someone would've posted here 274 times and not once figured out how to install gentoo.
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Gentoo Server
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did now a genkernel install which worked out of the box.
I strong suggest to get a working install script
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slycordinator
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo Server wrote:
I strong suggest to get a working install script


Can't you make one yourself using the install guide as your guide for an install script?

I did it once.
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eltech
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo Server wrote:
The question is why Gentoo completly fails at install.
Gentoo has some nice and candy features but the install is simple crap.
You need to pray after install reboot that you see a Gentoo login !
ahh, you must be inquiring about them Live CD Installs ..

Gentoo didnt start out the box with this install method (that all these other flavors have) and they sure havent mastered it yet either, but as a 5 year Gentoo user .. i sure can say .. i havent tried the live cd installer yet and honestly i like to know what i put on my system so when i reboot .. i know what login i will see.

Not bashing other livecd flavors, Ubuntu does a great job and works out the box (i use it myself) .. but if you want the eye candy; in Gentoo you have to learn to apply it rather then just pop in a cd and learn nothing about it..
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Sangeki
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo Server wrote:
I did now a genkernel install which worked out of the box.

So, you fucked up on the manual config of the kernel before!?
How is that the fault of gentoo?
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valkyrite
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kernel configuration is the trickiest part of installation and also the one that can give you a lot of advantage if properly configured. Kernel configuration is something that is not fully described in the docs (it will requires its own 100 page manual).

Be patient and try to go through all the options and associated help in the kernel configuration manual.

Remember, even if you get a kernel that boots, it may not be the optimum or not all of your hardware may function. You might have to recompile it several times to get a properly working kernel.
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alistair
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Dijkstra once said. "I do not write bugs. I write mistakes" or something along those lines.

welcome to what is probably not the first of many mistakes you will make in your life. :)
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lkajssfhdlkfja
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 11:21 am    Post subject: u know he's right Reply with quote

C'mon, u know he's right.

Gentoo installation is a frathouse initiation. Why give this guy crap about it?

The only thing that the installation needs to know are where to install and how to connect to the internet. Everything else is a monkey trying to see if it can dictate from dox to bash w/o error.

And anyone who goes thru the manual installation 80 times on similar machines w/o finding a better way is, uh, special. :D
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beatryder
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gentoo Server wrote:

The question is why Gentoo completly fails at install.

Uhmm... what? I have done several installs of Gentoo, and the *only* time it has not worked for me was when I accidentally skipped a step in the install manual.
I have not used the gui installer. And untill I see at least a 6 month period go by with no complaints about it, i probably wont use it ever.
Gentoo Server wrote:

Gentoo has some nice and candy features but the install is simple crap.

I agree with you on both these points, Gentoo has some nice features, and offers some eyecandy like XGL, and the installation is simple. I mean, its not much harder than having your hand held while crossing the street. I am gathering that you are not very comfortable using the shell, you need to be in order to make Gentoo work for you initially.
Gentoo Server wrote:

You need to pray after install reboot that you see a Gentoo login !

I only did that once.... no twice, first time installing ever, and the first time installing on my new(now current) laptop.


As others have said, if you have problems installing you need to ask questions. Instead of coming into the forums and berating everyone here, the vast majority of whom are here to VOLUNTEER their time in assisting, much as most of the devs volunteer their time in creating and maintaining Gentoo.
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nixnut
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moved from Installing Gentoo to Gentoo Chat.
Not a support question, but a rant. So moved here.
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mikegpitt
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously, if you follow the handbook install without thinking at all, it almost always work, esp if you use genkernel.

Speaking of, does anyone know why genkernel isn't the recommended method in the handbook? I think genkernel is one of the best parts of gentoo, although I also have machines where I manually customize the kernel (typically working off a working genkernel config).
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